Funk is ending up like the Blues

[LowMax]

According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word "funky" dates back to the late 17th century, in England, and basically originally meant "smelly" or "musty."
This is what "funk" music originally meant, but in a loving way. It's supposed to be the exact opposite of perfect and sterile, and that's one thing that we long time fans love about it.

I get your point but I had to laugh because when you're referencing 17th century England I can't think of any society less funky than that! LMAO

 

[stringtapper]

IMO, the real funk going on these days is the stuff coming out of Daptone (Budos Band, Menahan Street Band) and guys like The New Mastersounds.

But then I think that even a lot of the 70s stuff is way too plastic sounding compared to my standard of funk, which is The Meters.

 

[dougjwray]

I get your point but I had to laugh because when you're referencing 17th century England I can't think of any society less funky than that! LMAO

Except that the non-aristocratic people were living in tenements in London and throwing their garbage and the contents of their bedpans right out of their windows, into the street!

 

[mysterian]

Blues is the teacher, funk is the preacher!!!

 

[vvbudh]

Dude I absolutely love funk. Funk is my third favorite genre after City Pop and Vaporwave. All 80s stuff I wasn't around to listen to when it was being created.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Kind of funny how people want to segregate a musical element (rhythm) into race, era's, likes, dislikes, and other things that are not musical. Funk is interpretation of rhythm, there is funk in many, many genres, it's in r&b, disco, rock, jazz, afro-cuban, blues, hip-hop, and on and on and on. Why? Because funk is rhythm, an essential element of all music. Music is both human art and human craft, funk is it's own reward. The future of funk is in the continued existence of "live" music. It is the human interpretation of rhythm that will ensure the future of funk. It's not race, or age, or any other "identity", it is what it is, rhythm.

If you talking about my post, at no time the fourteen years I have been a member of TB did I ever say that one had to be a certain race to play any sort of music. Saying a music originated from a given community is not the same as saying only those people have a right to play it.

 

[nlmcguire91]

Music stores all over America are already dealing with the aging and death of guitar loving Baby Boomers.
I have two Basses coming in the next few months, but at 59, I have to ask myself, “why keep accumulating basses that my wife will dang near give away soon as I am dead?”

So that millennials like me will be able to afford them by the time I’m 50?

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Another way to look at it, and I don't mean to be racial about this but I think it's factual. African Americans create a style that white Americans glom onto and then the African Americans move on to the next thing, leaving it to the white Americans to take it as far as they can go with it.

To be fair, Whites were there at the creation of Funk and when it was at it’s most popular. Funk had its origin among African Americans, but was never exclusively Black.

 

[BassTerd]

Decades ago I took a few jazz lessons from a well known upright player and he told me knowing the blues was essential for jazz because that's where it comes from but the real source of both is gospel. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about.

If you listen to native american music in the south then you will hear the origins of gospel. In north american Indigenous music you will hear what has been labeled as "Blues." When africans were stripped from their culture and brought to the americas they would adopt native american culture as these were the peoples who where helping them survive their diaspora or were right next to them picking cotton. As a result you have a lot of native american musicians who are the actual heart of what has been labeled as "black music." Chalrey patton the so called god father of the delta blues was cherokee. At that period of time in history it was safer to be african then native american so a lot of natives would claim to be african so they wouldn't be murdered by europeans. Not much has changed in those regards either.

Here's an example.

 

[10cc]

Kinda funky. I spy an old ACC 360 too.

 

[GZboat]

IMO, the real funk going on these days is the stuff coming out of Daptone (Budos Band, Menahan Street Band) and guys like The New Mastersounds.

But then I think that even a lot of the 70s stuff is way too plastic sounding compared to my standard of funk, which is The Meters.

Aha! This poster nailed it! Vulfpeck reminds me of the Average White Band in the mid-1970's, a good funk band but not in the league of The Meters or their successors, The Neville Brothers.
Greg

 

[John Metta]

I simply do not like the talking over a beat thing.

I actually wrote an Invalid Link Removed. Unfortunately, many who see Hip Hop without that context treat it as if people (originally "Black people") simply didn't care about learning actual music and decided to lazily just talk over a beat. The actual history is much more complex, especially given the history in America of Black musicianship.

Black musicians have dominated American musical genre creation since the beginning of the country. That almost came to a grinding halt in the 70s. The reality is that an entire generation of Black youth wanted desperately to create "real" music. Unfortunately, inner city educational funding cuts meant music programs and access to musical instrumentation was essentially destroyed in underprivileged communities throughout the country, so there was simply no access to instruments or to teachers.

It's actually rather remarkable that a musically lost generation, with nothing more than tape recorders, buckets, and their mouths still managed to create an entire musical genre. Far from just talking over a beat, Rap sprung from a deep and intense need of inner city kids to make music and to bring poetry and storytelling to life in a musical manner--even if they had no way to make the music to accompany it. They simply chose the cultural foundation of rhythm instead of melody to do it because that's the tools they had.

Of course, there's the argument that String Band music and The Blues was developed without a lot of musical instruction, but the reality is that by the time Rock and Jazz came around, that kind of instrument heavy music had evolved enough that proper musicianship was necessary if you had instruments. You couldn't create a musical style by hammering out simple melodies the way African spirituals could be hammered out on a guitar anymore.

Within its historical context, Hip Hop is one of the most incredible expressions of musical development the country has ever seen. It's not simply a choice of "talking over a beat," it was a choice to force the creation of music even when it otherwise seemed impossible, using nothing but poetry, rhythm, and the cultural memory of The Griot. It's pretty amazing, actually.

That said, you might still not like the way it hits your ears. Different people have different tastes and that's fine. But writing it off as "talking over a beat" implies a lack of respect for its history and musicality that would be unfortunate.

 

[bass12]

If you listen to native american music in the south then you will hear the origins of gospel. In north american Indigenous music you will hear what has been labeled as "Blues." When africans were stripped from their culture and brought to the americas they would adopt native american culture as these were the peoples who where helping them survive their diaspora or were right next to them picking cotton. As a result you have a lot of native american musicians who are the actual heart of what has been labeled as "black music." Chalrey patton the so called god father of the delta blues was cherokee. At that period of time in history it was safer to be african then native american so a lot of natives would claim to be african so they wouldn't be murdered by europeans. Not much has changed in those regards either.

Here's an example.

Except that those examples you posted are not strictly traditional. I would say that the examples in that first clip (the second wouldn't show for me) were influenced by gospel more so than the reverse. It's no secret that "black" gospel owes a lot to "white" Christian hymns and the connections of field hollers to the work songs from various west African cultures have been well-documented. But music does have a way of absorbing all kinds of influences - not all of them obvious or acknowledged. Interesting idea about Native American singing being an influence. I've never read any references to the possibility before but it could be.

 

[10cc]

 

[Dr. Cheese]

Aha! This poster nailed it! Vulfpeck reminds me of the Average White Band in the mid-1970's, a good funk band but not in the league of The Meters or their successors, The Neville Brothers.
Greg

The Average White Band has nothing in common with Vulfpeck besides skin color. AWB was at it’s best playing med tempo mid tempo to nearly slow grooves like these:




They were also great vocalists who had some swagger when they performed.

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

You don't have to understand it. It's a simple request. The rules here are slanted and I'm tired of the double standard. I have to deal with a lot of trolling and then get threatened with banning when I report it... as I've been told to do. If it were equal ground it would be different... but it's been this way for a long time.

If you feel the need to continue to troll me, which you have a long history of, knock yourself out. I asked you to stop. No one else will. I figured I'd give that a try.

Dear, i repeat what I said before .. this place has got rules governing it ... feel free to report any act I made that you believe may have led to an infringement of the above-mentioned rules ... it is certainly not source of much enjoyment for me to interact with you sometimes ... however, I may have to reply to or comment your posts on a case-specific basis.

 

[Dr. Cheese]

I actually wrote an Invalid Link Removed. Unfortunately, many who see Hip Hop without that context treat it as if people (originally "Black people") simply didn't care about learning actual music and decided to lazily just talk over a beat. The actual history is much more complex, especially given the history in America of Black musicianship.

Black musicians have dominated American musical genre creation since the beginning of the country. That almost came to a grinding halt in the 70s. The reality is that an entire generation of Black youth wanted desperately to create "real" music. Unfortunately, inner city educational funding cuts meant music programs and access to musical instrumentation was essentially destroyed in underprivileged communities throughout the country, so there was simply no access to instruments or to teachers.

It's actually rather remarkable that a musically lost generation, with nothing more than tape recorders, buckets, and their mouths still managed to create an entire musical genre. Far from just talking over a beat, Rap sprung from a deep and intense need of inner city kids to make music and to bring poetry and storytelling to life in a musical manner--even if they had no way to make the music to accompany it. They simply chose the cultural foundation of rhythm instead of melody to do it because that's the tools they had.

Of course, there's the argument that String Band music and The Blues was developed without a lot of musical instruction, but the reality is that by the time Rock and Jazz came around, that kind of instrument heavy music had evolved enough that proper musicianship was necessary if you had instruments. You couldn't create a musical style by hammering out simple melodies the way African spirituals could be hammered out on a guitar anymore.

Within its historical context, Hip Hop is one of the most incredible expressions of musical development the country has ever seen. It's not simply a choice of "talking over a beat," it was a choice to force the creation of music even when it otherwise seemed impossible, using nothing but poetry, rhythm, and the cultural memory of The Griot. It's pretty amazing, actually.

That said, you might still not like the way it hits your ears. Different people have different tastes and that's fine. But writing it off as "talking over a beat" implies a lack of respect for its history and musicality that would be unfortunate.

I am not in a position to deeply debate this, but I think there is more to the origin of Rap than the decline in music funding in many school systems. I think that more than anything else, it was time for a paradigm shift.

 

[murphy]

I guess this is the original?....I like it.......alot

 

[micguy]

You don't have to be German to play Beethoven well. Same goes for any musical "style" - one of the things I like about playing in the churches I do is there are people who's ancestors are from all over the globe on stage with me, and regardless of what style music we're playing, we're brothers and sisters doing something together (and doing it darn well, most of the time).

 

[Gianni "Orlandez" Orlati]

The Average White Band has nothing in common with Vulfpeck besides skin color. AWB was at it’s best playing med tempo mid tempo to nearly slow grooves like these:




They were also great vocalists who had some swagger when they performed.

AWB was a funk band under all points of view ... at least in the first couple of recordings