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Funk is ending up like the Blues

#361
@Dr. Cheese vulpeck is not the future of funk. bands like Soulive and Lettuce are the future and holders of the funk. vulfpeck opens for those bands, vulfpeck is not even that big of a band, they just get a lot of hits on here because they have a great bassist. The jam band circuit is STOCKED full of funk bands and groups that are carrying the funk flame. Also the whole new orleans scene is all funk, Trombone Shorty, Dumpstafunk, George Porter and his running pardners, Galactic, etc, they are immenently more funky than vulfpeck and have been around a lot longer and are way more successful.
 
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#363
GreyEagle said:
Funk, like blues, has it's roots in gospel/black church music. That's my spin on it anyway.
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Decades ago I took a few jazz lessons from a well known upright player and he told me knowing the blues was essential for jazz because that's where it comes from but the real source of both is gospel. He seemed like he knew what he was talking about.
 
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#364
Also, since lots of folks are bringing it back to Vulfpeck, I would point out that the style being referred to reflects their latest writing/recording. They've honed in on a very specific visual presentation the last few years, and they seem to write more around Joe now, compared to their first couple of EPs. Not that they didn't highlight him then, but it seemed a bit more varied. Here's one of my favorites...

 
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#365
Bar Band Bassman said:
Well, The Meters pretty much invented funk. Sly Stone integrated funk. Larry Graham still kills it, too. And Tower of Power still carries the standard and sets the bar. Just because it's not getting airplay doesn't mean there aren't players of all stripes creating new music in the genre.
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not even close. James brown invented funk about a decade before the meters first record. he is THE GODFATHER OF FUNK for a reason
 
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#367
Vulfpeck seems like the group it is suddenly cool to hate on. Personally I love them. Great musicians, great writing, don't take themselves too seriously (mandatory for funk), *and* great ambassadors of the sound with some showmanship. They may not be the "future" in terms of pushing boundaries but they are certainly carrying the torch. Judging by the videos of young bass players on youtube they also seem like a very present influence on the next generation.
 
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#369
bkbirge said:
Vulfpeck seems like the group it is suddenly cool to hate on. Personally I love them. Great musicians, great writing, don't take themselves too seriously (mandatory for funk), *and* great ambassadors of the sound with some showmanship. They may not be the "future" in terms of pushing boundaries but they are certainly carrying the torch. Judging by the videos of young bass players on youtube they also seem like a very present influence on the next generation.
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I don't think he was making his comment on vulfpeck. But rather just using them because they seem to be the flavor of the month in the funk world right now. I think what he was trying to say is how a style of music is popular for a time and then something else pushes it along and out of the way. I don't think he was making his comment on Vulfpeck. But rather just using them because they seem to be the flavor of the month in the funk world right now. Like the way our cultural music was rock and roll for so long and now hip-hop has taken the mantle. Heck are there any rock bands out right now doing anything? If I'm not mistaken they didn't have any rock groups televised getting any kind of awards or recognition on this year's past Grammy awards.
 
#370
Long live Tower of Power. As a bass player I know what funk is to me when I am hearing it or playing it. And when I see the audience moving and dancing naturally to it, we are one with the funk. I don't need any ones definition since that will be all over the place. When the drummer and I are in one of those groves and improvise a solo together funking it up, its like blissful, like Italian soul food. No click track on that, not written, different each time, and the guitar player and keyboard player will not say there is not suppose to be a bass and/or drum solo in that song. The funk will take the lead and the rest will follow.
 
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#371
Dr. Cheese said:
Funk is no longer the major style of music enjoyed by the community that created it. The same thing happened to the Bues two generations ago.
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Another way to look at it, and I don't mean to be racial about this but I think it's factual. African Americans create a style that white Americans glom onto and then the African Americans move on to the next thing, leaving it to the white Americans to take it as far as they can go with it.
 
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#372
Grahams Groove said:
You acknowledged it with the baby/bath-water, but this is like saying, "I hate the sound of rock music." Such a broad array of music/artists is covered in the hip-hop and rap classifications. If you look in the right places (i.e. Not relying on radio, internet top 10 lists, spotify recommended, etc.) you may be pleasantly surprised by what you find.

I seem to hear this most with "country" and hip-hop. i.e. "I'll listen to anything but that..." I'm not overly surprised to hear those generalizations in random conversations, but I'm always surprised when I see it on music-related forums.
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Sorry, I simply do not like the talking over a beat thing. It wasn't my thing back in the early 80's and it never will be. I could make the case that "convoy" by C.W. McCall was my first exposure to "rap." (that's exactly what it was--talking over a beat--or some form of music, in this case, country). I was only a kid at the time, but I hated that song with a passion. A few years later the whole rap/hiphop thing started becoming popular and I hated that with a passion. I just about had a meltdown when whoever it was "stole" the groove from Good Times (by Chic) and turned it into that horrid... stuff. And to make matters worse, after that came out, everyone associated that AWESOME groove (and song) Good Times with that rap thing. Still ticks me off.

BUT, beyond the talking to a beat thing, there is more to hip-hop that I do not like. I don't like the "modern production" of it. I don't like the "modern sound" of it. I don't like the "beatbox" sound of most of it. If you listen to, say, the Brothers Johnson music from the seventies, Chic, Sister Sledge, A Taste of Honey, K.C. and Sunshine Band, the OJs, Isley Brothers, etc, there is no way you cannot notice the difference in the overall production of the music, and the "sound" of the times compared with the sound of music today. The bottom line is, I simply like the "sound" of music from the 1970s and before. Whatever it is that is different, that difference is what makes me like it--it's a combination of technology, style, production techniques/values, songwriting, and public tastes. Honestly, the only newer bands that I really like or can listen to and enjoy are bands that tend to get the "old school" thing going. I can even listen to a band like Greta Van Fleet and enjoy it because it is basically a throwback. But under no circumstance have I ever liked, or have even been able to tolerate, talking over a beat (or groove). Never will.
 
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#373
Bar Band Bassman said:
Well, The Meters pretty much invented funk. Sly Stone integrated funk. Larry Graham still kills it, too. And Tower of Power still carries the standard and sets the bar. Just because it's not getting airplay doesn't mean there aren't players of all stripes creating new music in the genre.
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I think James Brown would have a lot to say about who invented funk.
 
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#374
According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the word "funky" dates back to the late 17th century, in England, and basically originally meant "smelly" or "musty."
This is what "funk" music originally meant, but in a loving way. It's supposed to be the exact opposite of perfect and sterile, and that's one thing that we long time fans love about it.
 
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#375
The case with Vulfpeck is: they have stepped in the trap many instrumentalists get caught by. It’s the misconception, that other than a vocalist you could somehow hide behind your instrument who you really are...I know nobody wants to hear it. Any instrument is still just a additional medium of your personal expression. You might get it to work for a song, a recording session, that one special venue. But if it’s not „you „ it won’t work... even if you play a song 100% accurate. It’s not you and people will notice in the long run. Especially people with NO musical background. They’re best at detecting musicians „acting like...“ because they’re not prone to be destracted by chops or music inherent quotes.
For Funk in general: we’re not living in funky times anymore, unfortunately, people get what they need. Like Vulfpeck. Basically a preselected sampling of pleasant mass compatible dance music in „the style of...“
 
#377
LowMax said:
I think James Brown would have a lot to say about who invented funk.
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I agree, but...
Back in the '90s, in New Orleans, I heard a group of very old African American musicians play '20s-style New Orleans jazz (naturally), and it sounded like the roots of funk to me. Actually, it was eye-opening to me, because I had never liked "Dixieland", the cleaned-up-for-mainstream-consumption version, but this stuff was really funky and nasty, with primal energy similar to James Brown's music. Incredible.
 
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#378
Besides Bruno Mars being the one of the most popular artists on Planet Earth, there are a lot of young touring bands that come through my (college) town that are funk-based, like Ghost Note, Five Alarm Funk, Diggin Dirt, Yak Attack, Object Heavy, just to name a few. Plus I'm playing almost every weekend in a funk cover band. People will always be drawn to band they can DANCE to. It's a tribal thing, in our genes. :thumbsup:
 
#379
Dr. Cheese said:


Vulfpeck is the future of Funk. Young Black kids are totally into Hip Hop, frankly most White kids are into Hip Hop too. Even country acts are being heavily influenced by Rap these days. Funk is being produced by music school “nerds” like Vulfpeck (I love them, but they do come off as music department nerds.) Of course, musicianship is very healthy in the Black Church, Black Church bassists can certainly get funky, but Gospel is not Funk, funk is just one of many flavors comprising current Urban Gospel. I am not complaining, I was blessed to have grown up during the heyday of Funk, and just like the Big Band and Jump Blues that my parents grew up listening to gave way to R&B, Funk was not going last forever. It is just a sign of my aging that I am seeing what happened to my parent’s music, happen to my music.
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Kind of funny how people want to segregate a musical element (rhythm) into race, era's, likes, dislikes, and other things that are not musical. Funk is interpretation of rhythm, there is funk in many, many genres, it's in r&b, disco, rock, jazz, afro-cuban, blues, hip-hop, and on and on and on. Why? Because funk is rhythm, an essential element of all music. Music is both human art and human craft, funk is it's own reward. The future of funk is in the continued existence of "live" music. It is the human interpretation of rhythm that will ensure the future of funk. It's not race, or age, or any other "identity", it is what it is, rhythm.
 
#380
I probably don't listen to enough current music but it seems to me that back in the day, funk bass was very intricate. Actually some 60s, 70s rock and roll also. Seems to me modern music demands a very simple bass part so that it will sound good on car systems with heavy bass dB but not great quality except for very expensive systems that would "muddy up" the intricate bass lines of days gone by.
 

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