Discussion in 'Off Topic [BG]' started by metalbass101, Oct 22, 2004.

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  1. metalbass101


    Jan 24, 2004
    I have a serious prediciment. I am in a homeschool in California and I might fail my senior year. It is because of testing, I do the work and all of that but I ALWASE fail the tests. My teacher called when I was asleep told my mother I failed an Economics(GOD I HATE ECONOMICS!!!) test Child Development test and she woke me up and started giving me grief.
    I swear I hate it when she gets involded in my school work she is so annoying when she is in any way involved other than drving me and hour and fifteen minutes to go see my teacher and giving me printing paper. If I fail my Senoir year I was thinking about getting a GED . I'd have to wait until June and get a job (I live in the middle of nowhere) and get a drivers licene . I think it would be cool cuz' I'd only have to take one big test for each general subject and the whole thing is like 90% multiple choice(booya) . I looked up GED info on yahoo search and found some good info.
    If I can't turn things around in High School buy june next year, would this be a good Idea? Take note I do not really want to go to college or anything.

    I would like to get a job that can certainly pay the bills with a little dough on the side for me. I was thinking about forklifting or getting into some kind of contruction related thing. What would be a good paying job that I dont need some fancy University degree for?

    On a side note, dont get me wrong Im not saying college is bad. It's just I don't like school and paying for something harder than highschool doesn't seem too enticing.
  2. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    I was a drywall taper for years. That doesn't require a fancy degree. All you need is a strong desire to work your butt off all day without having to stop every couple hours for a break. Once you get good, and become a journeyman, you can make $25-30 an hour. Of course, those are the wages up here where I live.

    If the non-English speaking community has taken over the trade where you live as they almost have here, your wages may be lower for a journeyman.

  3. Getting your Good Enough Degree and not going to college is about the equivalent of shooting yourself in both feet. Several times.

    At the very least go to college for two years and get an associates degree.

    I know some kids I thought were cool when they dropped out...they're now in their early 20s and have gone nowhere, and they probably never will.

    Don't give up.
  4. metalbass101


    Jan 24, 2004
    Drywall taper ? What is that? What do I have to do? I can dig $25 and up. Is it physical labor to technical stuff?
  5. Construction workers or laborers can earn enough to make ends meet, sometimes. However, they seldom have fringe benefits: health insurance, retirement, or paid vacation. And the work can be "feast or famine", meaning in good times there's plenty of work, other times there will be several months or more of slim pickings.

    A skilled laborer, such as a factory worker, can make a pretty decent living, and working in a factory comes with the fringe benefits mentioned above. However, the competition for these jobs is pretty tough. Just having a GED won't get you hired.

    Best bet for you: the military. Maybe a couple of years of service will help you.
  6. Metal,
    I can really relate to what you're going through. By the time I was a senior in high school, I was very burnt out on school. But for me, my bass teacher said I should become a music major and get a college degree in music. I loved it because I love music. I don't use the degree everyday, but it leverages your career in ways you won't believe!

    It's really tough for guys in your position to look into the future. Just getting out of school is good enough. Will that be enough when your 25? 35? 45? How about with a wife and kids? (That happens to many of us, you know ;) )

    School is like putting money in the bank. Everyone's tendency is to just take the money out and party! But if you can "deposit" into your future rather than "withdraw", you'll be thankful down the road.

    Construction, skilled work, factory work is all fine and respectable work. But if you are in a position to get ANY type of degree (have your parents offered to help you on this at all?), even from night classes -- statistics show that you will make on average an additional $1,000,000 over the course of your lifetime over someone who does not have a degree.

    Just some free advice from an old man! ;)
  7. You mean "Good Enough Diploma." ;)

    "Let me get this straight, I can make up 4 years in 6 hours. ...The only college you can go to with a GED is community college. ...Community college is like a disco with books: 'Here's $10. I'm gonna get my learn on!'"

    -Chris Rock
  8. Tim Cole

    Tim Cole

    Jun 12, 2002
    Findlay, Ohio
    Plan on working for next to nothing while you're learning, and working your arse off in the process. Most skilled trades take at least 2 years to be competent enough to make it on your own. Might as well suck it up and put a few years of hard schoolwork behind you now, so you're not digging ditches the rest of your life. It's not a matter of "want" or "feeling like it". You think school, teachers, and angry moms are a pain, try WORK, bosses, and clients. There's a reason jobs pay, they all suck.
  9. Thor

    Thor Moderator Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Hard to argue with the COLE_MAN !

    Really, a better education will allow you to move ahead in a lot of the
    things that you want to do!

    School, boring?

    It's like music, what you put in is what you get out.
    HS in not easy, college is much better.

    Yes, if you screw up and can't retrieve it, get the GED.

    Funny thing about some kids, that at 17 they aren't motivated but
    at 19 they are. Do not close any doors for yourself. Ever.

    You can do whatever you want, once you decide that you got the motivation.

    You are a winner, go get your dreams buddy!
  10. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    Hey man....you guys are seriously bashing my trade, and I doubt any one of you even tried it professionally.

    Here is the scoop.....apprentice wage in our union is $14.12 per hour to start. A good, hard working apprentice could turn out journeyman within two years. All along getting a raise every six to eight months. Full medical/dental after 300 hours of work, which is basically equal to two months......retirement benefits are great....there is no paid vacation, that is true....but if you are making the money I did, and couldn't save any for vacation, then you must have been a moron.

    While it may be true that there are "feast and famine" times in construction, someone good at their trade works year round. I seldom had no more than a couple days off during the year because it was slow.

    Decent non-union shops provide good benefits. Again, it is all about busting your butt to get good, and be good. But come on guys, is there any job out there that gives you everything you want that didn't require you to bust your butt, and put your time in.

  11. Thor

    Thor Moderator Staff Member Gold Supporting Member

    Dood, I am not BASHING you at all, I know you work your ass off, and make excellent money.

    There are a lot of good options out there for a guy, who maybe
    like you, wants to hump.

    I hump my ass off at my job, and when I get home, I am beat.
    But it is good work and i cn support a fam, and pay the bills plus
    chase my interests...

    Good for our friends to see som input, I noticed when my kid was a senoir, guidance was crap for kids, to ask them what they were interested in and wanted to do. To bad it falls to TB to do that
  12. Bryan R. Tyler

    Bryan R. Tyler TalkBass: Usurping My Practice Time Since 2002 Staff Member Administrator Gold Supporting Member

    May 3, 2002
    "I think it would be cool cuz' I'd only have to take one big test for each general subject and the whole thing is like 90% multiple choice(booya) . I looked up GED info on yahoo search and found some good info."

    It sounds like you're looking for an easy way out. The benefit of taking the time out to learn all the things that would allow you to pass your senior year isn't just that it will give you an actual diploma-it's that it will make you smarter. Intelligence is really the one "skill" that will get you further in life than anything else.

    As far as testing goes, a lot of people say they don't test well. I believe this is true in the case of timed exams and exams that instill a huge amount of pressure (like if you won't pass a class unless get an A on it), but otherwise I feel that testing (so long as it is a good test) is really just a review of things you should really know. And seeing as you're homeschooled, I'm sure there is far less pressure when you take a test than for the average student. Testing is also more akin to real-life situations. If someone needs an answer, they're going to want someone who knows that answer-not someone who could try guessing at the answer (multiple choice). I'm not saying that there's nothing that would be difficult for you-everyone has trouble in some subject or another (I simply can't grasp the concepts of most maths past Algebra 2 for example), but you can know enough to get by and graduate-American high school is really not very difficult. My advice is to just work at it and graduate properly, and then try to get some sort of college degree. Chances are the work you put in now will be far less than the work you will have to put in for the rest of your life to make up for lack of education.
  13. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA

    alright......yeah, i think i may have over reacted. i just get really upset when i see people who have never done my job talk bad about it.

    like you, i have supported my family and my hobbies off my trade, i work my butt off to do so. i guess i don't think of myself as working my butt off, it's just what i do. now that i have an office job in the IT field, it is hard to get used to not working in a production based environment.

  14. Nah, I'm not bashing you or your trade. Certainly there's some people that can make a great living at various trades like yours...But it does take a lot of work to learn a trade too, and IMHO there are a lot of construction guys that don't want to really learn a trade, they don't want to learn how to do things right or make decisions for themselves...they just show up (if there's work), make their $10 an hour and go home. Then they complain how they're always broke. It sounds like your situation is entirely different, and I commend you for being in a good field.

    I was able to afford college because my dad died when I was in high school. Otherwise, i probably would have either gone in the service or gone to a trade school. Welding, for example, is a good paying vocation.
  15. metalbass101


    Jan 24, 2004
    Ok, I asked around about drywall taping. I got several questions

    1. What is this "Journeyman" thing?

    2. Is $14.12 sopposed to the begining price for ALL beginers?

    3. How much time untill I get into 20 dollars and up an hour?

    4. What kind of training to I have to go through in order to start.

    5. What kind of hours are we talking?
  16. Tim Cole

    Tim Cole

    Jun 12, 2002
    Findlay, Ohio
    Not bashing at all bro, I am speaking from experience. I installed flooring for 10 years, and have made pretty dang decent money at it. BUT IT IS HARD WORK, with a ton of responsibilities, headaches, and liabilities. Trust me, I wish I had it to do over again.

  17. JTbass


    Jul 2, 2004
    Asutin TX
    i left high scool when i was 16(im 20 now) and moved out. ive had lots of crapy jobs that pay the bills and now im thinkin what am i gonna do. by the way i come from an educated background, both of my parents have phd's and all that. you know you dont have to gollege right after you get out of highschool. for a while i thought i had to have a diploma instead of a ged. i mean it depends what you want to do, if you want to stop at highschool then i think a diploma is better. but if you are going to take college courses and get some kind of degree, then just get your ged. Right now i want to get my RN certificate and be a nurse. at least until i figure out what i want to do. i can make good money being a nurse, it will give me time to figure out what kind of career i want to persue. anyway i want to make this short and i have a hard time articulating stuff. I am a hard worker. i have learned that i am capable of getting things done and being responsilbe. but four years ago i was just a kid, and im still a kid but i have learned a lot in the last few years about myself. people change ive changed. ...................
    i dont know what to say ......................
    keep your options open....................
    make the best of it life is what you make it......................
    and whatever you do keep playing bass!
  18. Tim Cole

    Tim Cole

    Jun 12, 2002
    Findlay, Ohio
    Speaking from a related, but different trade...

    A title earned once you have earned it.

    That's pretty damn good training pay. I got 50 cents a yard when beginning carpet. You average doing about 10 yards an hour, generally. Remember, you're getting paid to get your education here. Around here, $14 an hour jobs are very hard to come by, even in this age.

    Depends on how hard you want to work. Count on a MINIMUM of 2 years, if you bust ass and apply yourself.

    Hand on baby, that's what your apprenticeship is.

    Might be zero if it is slow season, or if there are idiot hacks willing to work for peanuts. Count on LONG hours, you get to go home when you are done. Sometimes that is 1-3 am.

    With that said, someone skilled and willing to work hard can make good money, but it is in no way a life of luxury.
  19. MJ5150

    MJ5150 Terrific Twister

    Apr 12, 2001
    Lacey, WA
    Tim answered the questions pretty well, I will change a couple of his answers to reflect my trade...

    2.) The starting wage for level one apprentices in western washington is $14.12. Different states negotiate different contracts. You will have to check with your local union for the pay scale.

    3.) This answer depends on your desire to learn the trade, and desire to work HARD. A typical apprentice advances a level every 400 hours, or six months. Yes, you can advance faster. It's all up to the individual.

    4.) The apprentices go to night school up here two days a week for four hours. Usually 5-9PM. Some employers let them go home early on school days, and some even pay them to go to school. Not required by the union, but the good ones get that.

    5.) In my 15 years of drywall I have NEVER worked until 3AM. In commercial work, the start time is typically between 6-7AM. If you don't live near a major city, you can count on driving alot. I live an hour south of Seattle, where almost all of the commercial union work is. For a 6AM start time, I would leave my house between 415-430AM. If you are not a morning person, do NOT even THINK about getting into any contruction trade. The work day lasts eight hours. So, if you start a 6AM, take into account your 1/2 hour lunch, and you get off at 230PM. Anything over eight hours a day is overtime, so I seldom worked past my eight hours.

    The above answers relate to commercial union work. Residential is a bit different. Starting wage for a dude with zero experience is $9-12 an hour around here. Working hours differ. If you were to work like Tim did, by piecework, you can work 10-12 hour days. That would depend on how much money you wanted to make. Sometimes job deadlines force you to work over eight hours a day. When I did piecework residential, I would typically start at 6AM and work until around 4PM. That was when I was much younger, and really greedy for money.

    Construction is definitely not a life of luxury. While you are learning you will literally RUN all day long. Sweating the whole time. More experienced guys will give you a hard time, and make you do all of the grunt work. Just part of putting your time in. I was a foreman/project manager before I left drywall. We hired apprentices alot. We usually kept a ratio of two journeyman for every one apprentice. We treated our apprentices well.....the ones who wanted to work and learn the trade. If you are one of those guys nashvillebill referrred to that just wants some money, then stay the heck AWAY from construction. The way you are treated corresponds directly to your attitude. Guys who don't care, just want money, are the ones who are always laid off. Guys who bust their butt, have a genuine desire to learn the trade and be a real pro will reap the benefits. When I left my job, I was making excellent money with full med/dental for my family, retirement, and a company cell phone and truck. I busted my butt for years to get to that level. It is NOT easy. Nothing worth having in life is easy.

    nashvillebill....excellent observations, and thanks for the kind words.

  20. Brendan


    Jun 18, 2000
    Austin, TX
    I disagree with the Rock on the CC thing. It's an asset, the way I see it. I had (have) the grades, the werewithal, and the money to go to any number of major universities. I chose not to go to a 4 year, and hit up the CC thing. Why? Because I've no clue what I want to do with myself. If I'm treading water, might as well tread water for 1/3 the cost, right?

    When I finally find something that 1) interests me and 2) is a stable income trade, I fully intend to transfer to a Uni that has a good program for said career. Might be a trade school, might be some liberal arts college, I don't know yet.

    I know what I *want* to do, and that's write and draw my own comics. Art is the most physically fufilling thing I do, writing the most cerebral, but frankly there's no guarantee that I'll be able to pay the bills on said traits/skills. Which is why I'm getting a higher education in the first place: supporting myself and whatever family I might have.

    If I break through, and somehow end up like Miller, Ellis, Dillion, Morrison, Gaimen, great. But even applying myself and busting my ass and the desire to push myself to success pay the rent. Ergo, college.

    Something to think about.

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