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G&L Basses

TOP TEN REASONS G&Ls AREN'T MORE POPULAR

(donning flame-retardant suit)
  1. Lack of a Unique, Original Design – a Rick is instantly recognizable from across the room, as is a P, a Jazz, a Stingray, a Steinberger, a Thunderbird, a Wal, a Status, a Hofner, a Burns, a Mosrite, a Danelectro, a Spector, a Corvette, etc, etc. When I see a G&L from a distance, my first thought is "what is that... a Carvin..? A G&L..? A Washburn..? A Dean? A Stingray without a pickguard? A... ???" G&L's most instantly-recognizable, distinctive body style is the ASAT... a TELECASTER GUITAR COPY! All of the other G&Ls lack a unique style – they're just kinda... there. To my eye, they're just, well... generic. And dare I say it..? Carvin-y. :hiding:
  2. Brand Recognition – I think it would have been of great help to G&L if they had chosen one headstock shape, and stuck with it. Brand recognition matters (and I'm sorry, but that pointy little doohickey on the headstock is so blatantly the quickest, laziest, least-inspired way to get around copyright infringement – MusicMan did the Fender headstock copyright-dodge better.... Lakland did it better... Sadowsky did it better... cripes, RONDO/SX did it better!).
  3. Weight – All the G&Ls I played (many years ago) were absolute boat anchors – maybe they've changed (?), but bad impressions (and back pains) last a long time.
  4. Too Complex – Most basses (at least the ones that sell in the zillions of units) have Volume/Tone or Volume/Volume/Tone. Even the classic active Stingray established itself with only three knobs. Start putting mini-toggle switches on a bass, and people get confused and intimidated – it's sad, but true – even a cursory glance at the forum reveals this. Give 'em a Jaguar, they start clamoring for schematics! :rolleyes: Want to scare your average bassist? Show him a mini-toggle switch!
  5. No "trademark" Sound – Read any of the threads here, people want "P-Bass thump", "J honk", "Rick clang", "Warwick growl". When was the last time you heard someone ask for a "G&L sound"? IS there even a "G&L sound"? Which leads us to...
  6. Too Versatile – What people don't seem to want is true versatility. Don't believe me? Do a forum search for Wal basses, like I did last night – all you'll read are a bunch of complaints from people who couldn't instantly "dial in their tone". :rolleyes: From what I've witnessed, 99% of bassists don't want to have to experiment to get a sound that suits them (aka: P, J, 'Ray).
  7. Unorthodox Colors – If G&L offered more traditional colors (Candy Apple Red, Lake Placid Blue), I have no doubt they'd sell more instruments. People like tradition.
  8. Lack of B&M Vendors – I like to try a bass out before I buy it. There aren't enough G&Ls in STORES.
  9. Lack of Celebrity "star" Players – no Jaco, no Entwistle, no Geddy. Granted, this is a really STUPID reason, but no one can deny it's veracity – no McCartney = no Hofner. People buy what their idols play. If Flea/Claypool/Fieldy started using G&Ls exclusively, G&Ls would start flying off the shelves.
  10. Carrots.
Anyway, these are my honest thoughts – no offense intended to the faithful. And I'm no hater, either – I'd really like to try an L-2500 (the headstock doohickey looks much better on a 3+2, IMO).

I'd probably have bought one, had I been able to actually try one first.

After reading this, I can say that I see some valid points and some logic that is rather "interesting".

As far as the comment about having a recognizable body design, how many basses can really lay claim to that? A very large percentage of what is in the market is (at least) influenced by Fender's original design and is often an outright ripoff. In fact, body designs that are innovative, distinctive, or just unusual often tend to push away more buyers than they lure(for example: MM Bongo, an instrument with a great tonal range but a great number of negative reactions based purely on sight). When you mention the notion of the Stingray as "instantly recognizable from across the room", then later say that, when you see a G&L, you could confuse it for "A Stingray without a pickguard", you offer the strongest possible argument that a Stingray is visually distinctive only because of its rather unusual pickguard. Take that away, and the essence of the body is (say it with me) a P-bass.

With respect to the headstock, I would suggest that the patent infringement territory is now very crowded with all the vendors who have made slight modifications to avoid the wrath of the "Big-F". The "pointy thing" was probably a rather safe choice to avoid not only "Brand-F" but all the other guys who are trying to stay out of the way of "Brand-F".

The arrangement of the tone controls and switches is scary to someone who is used to having two knobs there. For those who are willing to invest the time to learn how to use them, there is significant payback. The versatility is definitely there.

Is there a "trademark" G&L sound? Go play a modern L-2000 or L-2500 and tell me. When I bought my first G&L, I went to the music store considering several brands, none of which were G&L. The owner of the store had just become a G&L dealer and suggested that I play one. I took an L-2500 from the rack, played a while, tried different switch settings, and found myself saying "This is how a bass is supposed to sound". In fact, I bought the L-2500 on the spot. About 2 years later, the lure of "Brand-F" caught up with me and I sold the L-2500 to buy an American Deluxe P-bass V(I grew up playing P-basses and J-basses and hold a love for them to this day.). For about a year, I played the Fender with my band and constantly fiddled with EQ and amps, trying to get a sound that I wanted. "J-bass!" I thought, so the P was sold and I bought an American Deluxe Jazz V. Another year of fiddling with settings and being unhappy with my sound. To make a long story even longer, on a trip to CG I discovered a used L-2500 fretless on the rack. The preamp had failed, so it worked passive only, and I was able to make a pretty good deal on it. I took it to play with my band and found that even in passive mode, the L-2500 cut through the band and sounded much punchier than either of the active "Brand-F" basses. This led me to sell the Jazz and buy a fretted L-2500 to go with the fretless. Now I have no problem getting the tone I want in any song we play, and when I play the bottom 5 tones on my B string, tables and other room furnishings are known to go flying through the air. Again, to me, it's "how a bass is supposed to sound". Trademark? Let your own ears decide.

Both Candy Apple Red and Lake Placid Blue are standard colors in the G&L line. In fact you can find both on dealers' racks today if you look. I dare say the G&L color lineup offers some of the most "traditional" choices possible. Take a look at the G&L web page.

I agree that enlisting a high-profile player might have some merit, as people put an unrealistic amount of stock in that. I'm not one who cares too much for that kind of thing, but I frequently visit a local music dealer where I see the G&L that was played by the late Dee Murray, one of the most musical and solid bassists I have had the pleasure to hear. That, by itself, is good enough for me.

G&L could certainly do a better job in the marketing and distribution ends of their business. It is possible that they don't want to grow to a level that would require an extensive overhaul of their production methods...who knows?
What I do know is that you can't find a better value in a bass and they have a sound that can compete with anything in the price class and many instruments that are twice the price.

Play one with an open mind. You might be surprised.
 
they're great instruments IMO.. but ! as good 'ol fender tradition .. you have to find the right one...
I've owned a USA made 2500 .. and I was very happy with it... but it just wasn't the bass for me.
After this bass I had the opprtunity to try lots of G&L basses (mostly 2500)... tribute and usa... and NO ONE satisfied me (speaking about sound.. they were all well made) like the one I used to own... so I suggest to someone who's gonna buy a G&L to try it first.
 
Keef makes some interesting points. However, I'm not sure I agree with the comment on the "pointy thing". In my opinion as a designer as well as bass player, it took far less imagination to cut a traditional headstock á la Sadowsky, Lakland, Mike Lull, Pensa, etc., than it took to come up with the completely new look of the current headstock. Besides, chicks dig it.
 
Cold front down here in GA... can't wait to see how this '84 L2K will burn... of course I don't know how many BTU's I can get out of it.. It's 9.5 lbs and the neck is only 1.675" wide at the nut.... :)

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G&L didn'tsell out to MF, GC or Sam Ash. You don't find them in AMS or Sweetwater ... so the dealers that pick the line up aren't competing with the big box guys. Means they get to hold the line on pricing - bad for hte consumer, good for the dealer - except the majority of the G&L dealers I've visited have been very thoughtful dealers. The basses were setup well, the sales guys were knowledgable - compared to the typical GC experience - well it's a little different...

So they go limited distribution. Get's them a limited audience, limited visibility and htat keeps the used prices depressed.

The part that get's me is Lakland has taken a similar approach and they get way better press for what are OK - not stellar instruments. I've had two SKylines and both needed neck realignment when they got here ... I've had two Tribute G&L's and the neck pocket was tight on each and the neck alignment was spot on ... so much for hat famed Lakland setup in Chicago. Cub's must a lost the day prior to each of those basses being built ...

Recent used market observations
L2.5K Trib $475, 55-02 $875
l2K Trib $375, 44-02 $675

Now the 02's have the Bart pre - which I do not like - but it is a better, more flexible pre than that found in the G&L's. The Tributes otoh have MFD 'buckers which kick the crap out of anything Bart has ever dreamed of ...

So is a 44-02 worth 300 more then a Trib L2K, the 55-02 worth $400 more then the L2.5 ? Not in my eye's. Not even close.

Is Laklands's marketing that much better ? Their basses sure aren't ...
 
Most of the cons have been adressed, but as far as the tri-tone eq- It's not that difficult. Maybe different at first, but actually very sensible once you understand how the mini-toggles can work together to vary the tone-Or not. Playing a G&L in passive mode is one of my favorite approaches to the instrument as well. I personally had to get hip to the cut-only treble/bass knobs. A little can go a loooong way as far as altering tone with the very poweful pups.

As far as lacking a distinctive sound- The MFD's provide one of the deepest, most growling, thick DISTINCT tones around!
I've often heard players love that their G&L can cop a 'Ray sound, or a P-Bass tone; good, but I don't think there's another bass that can do a G&L sound!

Looks are subjective; the headstock never really caused me any stress or displeasure, and as far as the body styles, very traditional as are the basses themselves- Player's basses for sure. They have an all-business look about them, and I don't have any trouble recognizing a G&L (especially the SBs!!:D)

As mentioned, the finish selection ranges from almost ALL of the traditional colors, to superb 'bursts, translucents, and even metalflakes for the "bling" crowd. There's some beautiful flames and quilts available if you want to pay extra too.
And if any company had the right to "copy" a Tele-style body, it would be the "L" in G&L I guess.

The prices for the real vintage Leo era G&L's seems to be on an upswing; still a very good value as are the used BBE generation basses.

Good thing for those who find satisfaction in what the brand offers.
 
I suppose I should mention that some of my post was intended as hyperbole, with a bit of tongue in cheek. :smug:

I'm sure that G&Ls do have their own distinct sound, but by "trademark" sound, I meant recognizable by the masses. As I said, I'm quite interested in an L2500, so I've spent a fair amount of time in the TalkBass G&L forum. The two most common topics I've encountered in there have been "what do all these switches and knobs do?!?" and "how can I make my G&L sound like a Wal/Stingray/Precision/Jazz?"

When you mention the notion of the Stingray as "instantly recognizable from across the room", then later say that, when you see a G&L, you could confuse it for "A Stingray without a pickguard", you offer the strongest possible argument that a Stingray is visually distinctive only because of its rather unusual pickguard. Take that away, and the essence of the body is (say it with me) a P-bass.
That's certainly true, I agree with you 100%. But 99% of the time, a Stingray is wearing it's pickguard. And that egg-shaped guard is arguably the most distinctive pickguard in all of bassdom. Instantly recognizable. It's that simple, distinctive kind of flair that, in my opinion, is lacking from most G&Ls.

As to the pointy headstock doohickey: I am a professional graphic artist. When you design something, it's supposed to have it's own internal stylistic consistency. What this means is that an instrument that consists entirely of smooth, rounded, contoured lines should not have one spot that's entirely pointy. This is why you don't see Volkswagen bugs with one pointy fin sticking from the trunk – it would be a design inconsistency, and would look awkward. This, in my opinion, is what's wrong with the so-called Superstrat Jackson/Charvel kind of designs – that pointy headstock looks entirely out of place on a rounded Strat (or P-Bass) style of body. The G&L headstock looks like it was designed by a mindful copyright attorney, not by an artist or designer. This is not true any of the other companies I mentioned, nor is it true of Alleva Coppolo basses or Valenti basses, both instruments with headstock designs that look like they were conceived by an artist, not a lawyer.

Thanks for setting me straight on the color options, Jimtoonz – I obviously had to pad the list to make a complete "Top Ten", as evidenced by the last entry, carrots.

:)
 
I've got 2 G&L basses - an '81 L-1000 and a new L-2000 Tribute. My L-1000 is the bass that my old '64 Precision could never be. It was Leo's creation of the better mouse trap.
I haven't done much time with the Tribute - I let my son take it to play so he wouldn't steal my L-1000 again.

Famous players? Well, G&L doesn't really need the endorsement ads to validate their instruments, but they have had a few famous users - Jerry Cantrell endorsed the guitars, The Hellecasters endorse(d) them, Tom Hamilton uses their basses, and Gail Ann Dorsey is a G&L player.
 
As to the pointy headstock doohickey: I am a professional graphic artist. When you design something, it's supposed to have it's own internal stylistic consistency. What this means is that an instrument that consists entirely of smooth, rounded, contoured lines should not have one spot that's entirely pointy. This is why you don't see Volkswagen bugs with one pointy fin sticking from the trunk – it would be a design inconsistency, and would look awkward. This, in my opinion, is what's wrong with the so-called Superstrat Jackson/Charvel kind of designs – that pointy headstock looks entirely out of place on a rounded Strat (or P-Bass) style of body. The G&L headstock looks like it was designed by a mindful copyright attorney, not by an artist or designer. This is not true any of the other companies I mentioned, nor is it true of Alleva Coppolo basses or Valenti basses, both instruments with headstock designs that look like they were conceived by an artist, not a lawyer.

I find this interesting. Beyond intro art courses in high school, I have no education is the visual arts. I have no idea what I'm doing when putting anything two or more things together due to how they compliment each other visually or spacially. Even buying the right tie for a shirt that isn't a solid color is typically difficult...

... and I think the G&L headstock is one of the most attractive stocks out there, in both the 3+2 and 4-on-top configurations!

Good think I'm a musician :D
 
welll.......to avoid hauling my Sterling on the subway, I am using the guitarists L 2000Tribute for rehearsals. Very nice bass... great sound. As a F and MM guy, I was impressed...very

BUT......even he couldnt tell me how those mini toggle switches worked! I fiddled for awhile, but I downloaded the schematics to see for real what they do!

and as far as Lakland goes they do have some high profile endorsers, while G&L, I can think of the guy from Umphrey's McGee, who is not even listed on their site, while the guitar player is....
 
Sorry Keef, but I disagree with you again. Since you're a graphic designer maybe you can use your bezier curve tool and trace a Fender headstock and see if you don't get a break point.
Dough!!! :eek:
 
I was watching a really nice SB-2 in a shop around my area. It was Bel Air green, and only 599. I passed on it and now I wish I hadn't. In retrospect it was a good price for an American made bass.

One of my friends plays an L2500 in a Ska band, he uses it as his backup to a Jazz V. He has really gotten the tone he wants with all the togel switches.

Another one of my friends is sponsored by G&L, he plays and has played in a slew of Hardcore bands. He's got 3 L2000 and swears by them.

Just my 2 cents.