Gallien Krueger Head with Non-GK Cabs????

[stoneboy26]

These is my rig with non GK cabs...

Link Removed

I am yet to try it out at rehearsal as a full rig, but for all you non-aussies, Labsystems are made in Melbourne, and after trying all these new neo cabs, to reduce the weight of the 410. I just went with their 210 (handles 400W @ 8ohms). So I can run the 1001RBII with either of the cabs, or both and get the full power from it.

The guy that makes these will even rewire it so that you can use the GK biamp feature.

 

[BassMonstrum]

I just found a used Mesa Boogie Diesel 1x15" cabinet, which is rated 400watts at 8ohm. If I swap this speaker with the EV that's in my cab, will I be on the safe side, Boo?

 

[JanusZarate]

I just found a used Mesa Boogie Diesel 1x15" cabinet, which is rated 400watts at 8ohm. If I swap this speaker with the EV that's in my cab, will I be on the safe side, Boo?

Power-wise, yep. Sound-wise, I believe so... unless the Powerhouse was meant to sound dramatically different than a Diesel 4x10/1x15 stack. I think you should be fine.

As an added disclaimer, I'm not the guru of speaker swapping... but I AM optimistic.

 

[BassMonstrum]

On a side note, Boo... I remember using two Hartke cabs back in the day and had them hooked in series. The watts traveled to the 4x10"-cabinet which then sent the excess wattage to the 2x15"-cabinet. Do you think this is the case with my cabinet?

 

[JanusZarate]

On a side note, Boo... I remember using two Hartke cabs back in the day and had them hooked in series. The watts traveled to the 4x10"-cabinet which then sent the excess wattage to the 2x15"-cabinet. Do you think this is the case with my cabinet?

Wait... do you mean that your Hartke cabs had two input/output jacks on the back, and your amp had only one output?

If that was the case... then that's not actually what was going on. Hooking up those Hartke cabs the way I think you did is electrically identical to hooking up each cab to a different output on your amp. In reality, you were hooking them up in parallel, not series. The "daisy-chaining" method for hooking up cabinets is a generally uncommon alternative to the more common method of hooking both cabs directly to the amp.

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that's what was actually going on. I see this all the time on old cabinets, and even on some new ones (including the current version of the Powerhouse 1000 - which is why one Speakon jack is labeled "paralleled out").

The key factor in power distribution is the impedance of each speaker. The power handling of a speaker does NOT limit the power it can receive.

With the four 10" speakers wired for an 8 Ohm total, and the single 15" speaker being rated at 8 Ohms, power will be split evenly between the two sets. In the end, that 15" speaker is going to be a continual pest if you plan on using it at high volumes.

 

[SERPENT865]

G-K and Carvin thats music in my ears.

 

[BassMonstrum]

With the four 10" speakers wired for an 8 Ohm total, and the single 15" speaker being rated at 8 Ohms, power will be split evenly between the two sets. In the end, that 15" speaker is going to be a continual pest if you plan on using it at high volumes.

Define high volume. Sorry, to be such a tard on the subject...

 

[jordan-z]

I'm pretty sure all your questions have been taken care of, but i thought i'd add that i play through a GK Avatar combination. I have the GK 700rbII and the 410 and 212 neo avatar cabs in matching red tolex and i couldn't be happier. I got the head off of here from a nice gent, and picked up the 410 about fifty bones less because it was supposedly scuffed. It delivers a REAL fat bottom end and plenty of control to cut through with crystal clear mids and hi's thanks to the bi amping capabilities. I've got tons of head room with the head, and its only the 700 model. lots of the guys on here use the 10001 and the 2001.

and it just looks sooooooooo hawtdamn sexy...

 

[JanusZarate]

Define high volume. Sorry, to be such a tard on the subject...

Heh... no problem. As you turn up the volume, your amp will pump out more power. "High volume" in this case is "loud" in the general sense - practicing with your band, playing at a gig, etc. (practicing alone is another matter, unless your neighbors don't mind you cranking your amp ).

I might've mentioned this before (I know I've mentioned it to lots of people), but RMS values are somewhat like "averages". Some people think that your amp delivers all of the power it says it does, all the time. But that's not the case.

Power rises and falls above the RMS rating at high volumes. At low volumes, you don't reach the RMS rating. At really low volumes, you're barely using any power at all, and at really high volumes, you approach the upper limits of what your amp can produce (which is MUCH more than the RMS rating).

So... playing at high volumes means using more of the power your amp was designed to deliver. Be mindful of how you decide to set up your cab with the 2001RB, because as your volume goes up, so does the power delivered to the speakers... and since that 15" speaker isn't rated very high, it probably won't handle what the 2001RB will deliver at a high volume (it'll be fine at low volumes, though).

Generally speaking, speakers need a certain amount of power to maximize their performance (the RMS power rating is a guideline). Going well above the RMS rating won't get you any more out of the speaker - unless farty distortion and more blown speakers are what you're looking for.

To muddy the waters a bit more... the RMS and peak power ratings of any cab don't necessarily correlate with the volume they can deliver. The one thing RMS is fairly useful for, though, is helping you to avoid blowing a speaker by better understanding what your gear can handle and deliver in a relative sense.

I'm pretty sure all your questions have been taken care of, but i thought i'd add that i play through a GK Avatar combination. I have the GK 700rbII and the 410 and 212 neo avatar cabs in matching red tolex and i couldn't be happier. I got the head off of here from a nice gent, and picked up the 410 about fifty bones less because it was supposedly scuffed. It delivers a REAL fat bottom end and plenty of control to cut through with crystal clear mids and hi's thanks to the bi amping capabilities. I've got tons of head room with the head, and its only the 700 model. lots of the guys on here use the 10001 and the 2001.

and it just looks sooooooooo hawtdamn sexy...

Ah... did you have your Avatars modified for GK bi-amping?

 

[jordan-z]

im pretty sure they dont need to be modified. it works with non gk cabs ad well

 

[JanusZarate]

im pretty sure they dont need to be modified. it works with non gk cabs ad well

No, they'd have to be for the HMS to work. But regardless, GK amps work with any cab in full range mode.

The HMS feature ("bi-amping") only works if your non-GK cab is modified to accept a 4-pin Speakon cable, and internal rewiring is done so that the +2 and -2 pins go to the tweeter, while the +1 and -1 pins go to your other speakers. GK cabs already have this done, and they also have a crossover in case you want to run them traditionally or want to use them with a non-GK head.

Otherwise, the GK amp delivers in full range mode, and you control the tweeter from the back of the cabinet using the cab's built-in crossover and attenuator dial. The tweeter amp inside your GK head is disabled, and the Tweeter knob on the front of the amp doesn't do anything.

That's not a bad thing by any means (that's how almost all tweeter-loaded cabinets work), but it means you can't use the HMS to manage the tweeter.

 

[shoot-r]

1984....bought GK 800 new, ran it full range into a Ampeg SVT 810.
Used that rig up to about 1-1/2 years ago.
Now....same GK 800 ran full range into a Eden 212XLT.
This GK has been in use 2 to 6 nights a week since new, it's never went down, never been in the shop.

 

[fruity2x]

hey MysticBoo...you wouldn't happen to know how to rewire the Avatar cab to run the HMS feature of a GK would ya?

 

[JanusZarate]

hey MysticBoo...you wouldn't happen to know how to rewire the Avatar cab to run the HMS feature of a GK would ya?

I know the vague, unhelpful basics.

You'll need a 4-pin Speakon jack to replace your current one. The tweeter would be wired to the +2 and -2 pins, while the other speakers would be wired to the +1 and -1 pins.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you much more than that. I've never cracked open my cab to see the intricacies of how it's wired... so you might want to seek help from someone who's done it before.

 

[DakotaBass]

I modified my Avatar 410 neo last week so I could run biamped from my GK 700.

One thing I learned in the process is to NEVER use a 4 wire cable with an unmodified Avatar cab. For some reason Avatar wires +1 to +2 and -1 to -2. When hooked up to a GK amp with a 4 wire Speakon cable it shorts the low frequency amp and the high frequency amp together and the output is really distorted, and I imagine not very good for the amp.

After I removed the crossover, wired the low freq drivers to +1 and -1, wired the horn to +2 and -2 everything worked fine. The difference between biamping and not are slight, but it is nice to have the use of the controls on the amp.

The crossover frequency of the GK is 5 KHz which seems a little high. If I could find a schematic I would consider modifying the GK to a lower frequency, say 3.5 KHz. I would think the horn could do that.

 

[fruity2x]

I know the vague, unhelpful basics.

You'll need a 4-pin Speakon jack to replace your current one. The tweeter would be wired to the +2 and -2 pins, while the other speakers would be wired to the +1 and -1 pins.

Honestly, I couldn't tell you much more than that. I've never cracked open my cab to see the intricacies of how it's wired... so you might want to seek help from someone who's done it before.

thanx for your help and advice man....

 

[fruity2x]

I modified my Avatar 410 neo last week so I could run biamped from my GK 700.

One thing I learned in the process is to NEVER use a 4 wire cable with an unmodified Avatar cab. For some reason Avatar wires +1 to +2 and -1 to -2. When hooked up to a GK amp with a 4 wire Speakon cable it shorts the low frequency amp and the high frequency amp together and the output is really distorted, and I imagine not very good for the amp.

After I removed the crossover, wired the low freq drivers to +1 and -1, wired the horn to +2 and -2 everything worked fine. The difference between biamping and not are slight, but it is nice to have the use of the controls on the amp.

The crossover frequency of the GK is 5 KHz which seems a little high. If I could find a schematic I would consider modifying the GK to a lower frequency, say 3.5 KHz. I would think the horn could do that.

cool...thanx for your input!!! nice to hear form some one that did it. did you run the 10s in full rang or still keep them going thru the crossover? im thinking of doing this to my 212 Avatar cab...im just a little crossover ignorant. ive heard that the differences are slight but i think the control would be nice. i find myself fighting over too much/not enough high end and think it would be helpful to be able to "just add some sparkle" to my sound when in on the higher string.

i play a standard tuned five string in a band tuned to B F# B E G# B (OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT...DAMN GUITAR PLAYERS INVADING MY SPACE...yes i meant to yell...) and i just "do the math"...i retune/detune for NO ONE!!!! sorry off topic rant...hehehe...

my thinking is this would help dial my sound in...has anyone found it helpful or worth it to rewire their non GK cab to use the HMS controls?

 

[JanusZarate]

The major advantages do with how your sound is reproduced. If you tend to really crank the Boost knob, taking advantage of the HMS will help keep the tweeter bright and clean, as it'll be amplified separately. Plus, you can make use of the filter buttons for a clean crossover split between your speakers and tweeters.

But from the sound of what your guitarists are doing, it sounds like you're playing in hard rock / metal territory... you sure you want to use a tweeter for that? I don't. Mids may do you more favors there...

 

[OrionManMatt]

I once used a GK400RB/210 (sans tweeter) and absolutely loved the tone, especially when I was really pushing it. I wonder how to get that same, pushed compressed tone at a higher volume? maybe double the volume....

 

[fruity2x]

MysticBoo...yeah we are hard rock...pushing the limits into metal (myspace.com/sonicash if ya want to check out some of it)...were tuned that low for the singers range (its where hes comfortable so i didn't argue) when we first got together i saw it as a chance to be a better bass player...my father in law is a blues bass player and watching him at open jams i noticed he wouldn't retune for the SRV guys that would get up (half steep lower) so i asked him about it and he said a note is a note you got a 5 string dont ya?...just stay in key and your fine (hell that guy taught me more in a saturday afternoon than i learned in 15 years!!!). when this band started i really took that advice to heart.

i do really fill the mid section of the band...have to at this point...its what make me go with the 212s. before that i was a hartke 410/115 and it just lacked somthing...so now im using the Avatar 212 on top of the hartke 410....where it gets tricky for me in this band is if i turn up the treble to get a nice sparkle on the D and G string (mmmmm G string ) i get WAY too much "twang" on my B, E, and A....if i dial it in for the lower strings my high fills get lost...this isent so much a FOH problem its a pratice/stage thing for me.

im just returning to GK. i started with a 70s 400B (OMG your bass lines in Do Not Fear Chaos are sick!!!! got you up as im writting this...sent a friends req.) and went to a Carven (dont remember the model) then a beringer 3000bx when the Carven got jacked up by my old drummer...when i decided it was time to get an amp that would do my new Avatar 212 justice i came back to GK....LOVE the GK growl...hell the range of tone you can get in general....i really dug the HMS option of it but now im in love with the Avatars (will be getting the 210 neo soon...got a bad back and am loving the light weight cabs) and thought i could mod them to get what i need them to do...i know a little but like to be sure i really know what im doing before i jack up a good "what ever im modding"....know what i mean?

really man....great band you got there!!!! keep up the good work!!!!