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Gay Musicians

#321
It used to be that if you were a minority in anything, you kind of kept it quiet, but once people started the self-labelling, they also started shouting - loudly, at anyone who would listen. If you join any internet forum for any specialism - even quite narrow ones like Military Aircraft, Civil Defence from the 80s, Radio Hams, Technical Theatre, computer music, train spotting, or medieval thong and arrow construction - before long, somebody pops up and asks if there are any other gay members. As if it really makes a difference.

Do people care? Only a very small percentage of bigot, most even if they are actually a bit anti, don't let it worry them or become something to even remember.

I spend a lot of time with performing arts people, a large proportion of which are gay - and on Facebook, looking back at maybe 6 years of names and faces, I have no idea who is or is not gay.
 
#322
lfmn16 said:
+1

I don't want to hear about someone's gay antics any more than I want to hear about someone's straight antics. You are gay? I don't care. You are straight? I don't care about that either. Being gay may be the most important thing in the world to you, but for the most part, no one else cares or gives it a second thought, unless you manipulate every conversation to how it relates to your being gay.

IMHO the best way to get treated like everyone else is to stop making a big deal about how different you are. It's like my friends from different cultures; unless they are talking about it, I don't even think about it.
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The problem with people who say this is that they always classify "Mentioning you are gay or that you have a same-sex partner in any way" as manipulating the conversation to be about sexuality without holding straight people to the same standard. It's basically telling people to stay in the closet.

paulears said:
It used to be that if you were a minority in anything, you kind of kept it quiet, but once people started the self-labelling, they also started shouting - loudly, at anyone who would listen.
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So, it was better when everyone was in the closet, got it.
 
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#323
Pajama_Bottoms said:
The problem with people who say this is that they always classify "Mentioning you are gay or that you have a same-sex partner in any way" as manipulating the conversation to be about sexuality without holding straight people to the same standard. It's basically telling people to stay in the closet.
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If that's what you got from my post then you didn't read it. Read it again and be enlightened. You'll notice I hold straight and gay to the same standard.
 
#325
I just have to point out, once again, that there is a valid reason for people to tell you they are gay or lesbian. You don't realize it, but the default setting for most conversation is "straight." You announce how straight you are whenever you mention your wives, girlfriends, and many other things. By announcing their sexual identity, they are making sure to be honest with you. They are allowing you to shun them, if you are a bigot, as no sensible person wants to know anyone who is biased against "people like them," and they are taking a necessary step for honest communication.

Please, if you "accept" gay and lesbian people, "accept" their need to identify as such. I once had to end a friendship because a guy never once told me he is black.*


*that's a joke, son.
 
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#326
lfmn16 said:
If that's what you got from my post then you didn't read it. Read it again and be enlightened. You'll notice I hold straight and gay to the same standard.
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Can you define how someone manipulates a conversation to be about them being gay?

To contribute to the thread, one of the better live venues in my area is the "gay and lesbian bar" - really pretty much an all-are-welcome nightclub that attracts a fairly LGBT crowd because it's one of the few bars in the area that's not either the country, bikers, or classic rock scene - and I've had several musicians balk at the suggestion that we play there because they themselves are not gay. Funny how they're fine with doing country covers despite not being cowboys...
 
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#327
Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm stopping in to say that I'm an out, lesbian bassist.

As for gay people "manipulating" some conversations...I can see where that's coming from. A lot of gay/lesbian/bi people make their sexual orientation their entire identity instead of just part of it (hope that makes sense), so they often feel the need to bring it up in conversation, even when it's not warrented.

I, for one, prefer this approach. I'd personally like to be known as more than just, "that lesbian chick..."

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Same thing goes on with people of other genders, cultures, religions, etc. For example I had a Jewish friend in high school who always felt the need to mention that she was Jewish, even if it didn't affect the topic of conversation in any way.

Some people just like calling attention to their differences.

mellowinman said:
I just have to point out, once again, that there is a valid reason for people to tell you they are gay or lesbian. You don't realize it, but the default setting for most conversation is "straight." You announce how straight you are whenever you mention your wives, girlfriends, and many other things. By announcing their sexual identity, they are making sure to be honest with you. They are allowing you to shun them, if you are a bigot, as no sensible person wants to know anyone who is biased against "people like them," and they are taking a necessary step for honest communication.

Please, if you "accept" gay and lesbian people, "accept" their need to identify as such. I once had to end a friendship because a guy never once told me he is black.*


*that's a joke, son.
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+1

And now I kind of have to reevaluate that entire last post...damn you mellowinman.
 
#328
Pajama_Bottoms said:
Can you define how someone manipulates a conversation to be about them being gay?
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I don't need to justify my opinion to you. If this has never happened to you, then you won't understand. You obviously have some kind of axe to grind here and I'm not interested in writing a 100 page thesis on my opinions on the gay lifestyle. I'll say this and then I'm done - I don't treat gays any differently than I treat anyone else. Discrimination based on a sexual orientation should be illegal and I fully support gay marriage because it's none of my business. Even though I'm straight, I supported gay rights back in the '70's when it was legal to discriminate against gays, so if you want to find a homophobe, you'll need to look elsewhere.
 
#329
verycoolname said:
Haven't read the whole thread, but I'm stopping in to say that I'm an out, lesbian bassist.

As for gay people "manipulating" some conversations...I can see where that's coming from. A lot of gay/lesbian/bi people make their sexual orientation their entire identity instead of just part of it (hope that makes sense), so they often feel the need to bring it up in conversation, even when it's not warrented.
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Thank you for clarifying this. On TB, some people tend to read a lot into a few words. I'm certainly not saying that no one can mention the fact that they are gay, or that in the course of normal conversation their orientation can not or should not be alluded to. I'm just saying I'm not interested in it being the focal point of every conversation.
 
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#330
lfmn16 said:
I don't need to justify my opinion to you. If this has never happened to you, then you won't understand. You obviously have some kind of axe to grind here and I'm not interested in writing a 100 page thesis on my opinions on the gay lifestyle. I'll say this and then I'm done - I don't treat gays any differently than I treat anyone else. Discrimination based on a sexual orientation should be illegal and I fully support gay marriage because it's none of my business. Even though I'm straight, I supported gay rights back in the '70's when it was legal to discriminate against gays, so if you want to find a homophobe, you'll need to look elsewhere.
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Sorry to make you feel that I was attacking you - it's been my personal experience in the south that people who say they "don't want it shoved in their face" define any time a gay person mentions that they have a same sex partner as making the conversation all about their sexuality. Pretty much every time I've heard the complaint it's been someone freaking out about something utterly benign and betraying their discomfort.

I think part of the reason that discussing sexuality can be relevant to musicians specifically is that it can be very uncomfortable to attempt to making something artistic and creative without being sure your collaborators aren't judging you, especially when you're working in an art form that requires the group to present themselves as a whole to the public. It can make someone feel very unwelcome in a group and uncomfortable putting their ideas out there in general.
 
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#331
Pajama_Bottoms said:
Sorry to make you feel that I was attacking you - it's been my personal experience in the south that people who say they "don't want it shoved in their face" define any time a gay person mentions that they have a same sex partner as making the conversation all about their sexuality. Pretty much every time I've heard the complaint it's been someone freaking out about something utterly benign and betraying their discomfort.

I think part of the reason that discussing sexuality can be relevant to musicians specifically is that it can be very uncomfortable to attempt to making something artistic and creative without being sure your collaborators aren't judging you, especially when you're working in an art form that requires the group to present themselves as a whole to the public. It can make someone feel very unwelcome in a group and uncomfortable putting their ideas out there in general.
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It's hard to convey nuance on the Internet. I try to be straight forward and say what I mean with no hidden subtext, but if you don't know me, it may not be apparent. I have never understood why people think its ok to treat others differently because they are gay, or why anyone would care if two gay people want to get married. I think people should be judged strictly on their merits and frankly people who judge based on color or sexual orientation are often hurting themselves as much as the people they discriminate against. They are just too stupid to realize it.
 
#332
pacojas said:
sorry, but OP's post is riddled with assuptions to the point of being ridiculous! and btw, i played in San Francisco for 25years. i certainly don't live in a box.
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Maybe we read it differently. Seems to me he was just putting his feelings and experiences out there to the community. Thankfully most people here on TB were a little more understanding than you. Shoot man life is hard for lots of people for a variety of reasons. If you can't help, at least try not to hurt.
 
#338
Liam Wald said:
Unless the primary source and focus of your identity is your sexuality, (which in my opinion would be a tragic shame whether you are gay, straight, celibate, or neutered), sexual preference has nothing to do with music or any other career choice.
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It shouldn't, but it certainly does. Did you see the massive amount of national media when that gay football player got into the NFL? Or how recently don't ask don't tell was repealed? There are many careers where your sexual preference could lead to severe discrimination or penalties.
 
#339
Bryan R. Tyler said:
It shouldn't, but it certainly does. Did you see the massive amount of national media when that gay football player got into the NFL? Or how recently don't ask don't tell was repealed? There are many careers where your sexual preference could lead to severe discrimination or penalties.
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I guess that everything is about perspective and we all choose what we focus our energy upon. To some people, perhaps, the gay football player thing appeared to create a "massive amount of national media". As far as I am concerned it was an insignificant little media blip that hardly deserved column space thankfully went away after it's undeserved 15 minute news cycle.
And yes, I agree with you that there are many many people who are bigots and work to persecute or at least make life miserable for anyone who is different from them.
 
#340
The only person who's perspective would matter in those cases is the person who is being discussed- while it may not happen to be a big deal to you, it obviously could cause a great deal of stress for the football player, and even risk. Unfortunately, those bigots are in places of power in every career path. A man bringing his husband to a company picnic may result in him never getting a higher position; a Christian rock band with a gay member may never get signed to labels that promote that kind of music, etc. It's very often a factor that they need to consider- there's a reason why so many people stay closeted.
 
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