Gear Bias

[pepj]

I'm open, to a degree, but I also subscribe to 'quality costs' and there is a reason some things are cheap.
If you can reconcile to those reasons, then fine.

I can value the the quality in very well built products but its not to say cost alone makes it a very well built instrument.
Fender is a testament to that imv.

But also, certain cheaper instruments are little more than planks of wood with poor component parts.

 

[Savage_Dreams]

That's not what I said.

What I was implying is that if you are a serious musician and you've been playing a while then you prob care enough to invest in your gear. There aren't too many professional touring musicians that are walking on a stage using a grand total of $1000 worth of gear.

If you apply this to any other profession:

Is a professional electrician walking onto a job site with a "Made in China" multimeter they purchased for $9.99 or are they relying upon an industry standard multimeter made by a company like Fluke that most likely cost them about $300? If they were at your house (or business) to fix an electrical problem which would you prefer?

As for Schecter....I have nothing against them. There are a few of their basses that are very well made an the people you mentioned happen to be using some of those instruments (Robert Deleo as well) however, there is a major difference between the Michael Anthony Schecter and the $300 Chinese Schecter that every half-@ss metal band to ever adorn a stage is using.

you have nothing against schecter yet they were part of your original post as:

I don't have a bias against either Squier or Schecter however, IMO if you are a serious musician with some time under your belt, you've prob invested money in some gear.

which means you equate them as not having spent much money on gear. and i dont know how rich you are, but the $1200 i spent on my Schecter isnt peanuts.

most of the pros dont pay for all the gear they have. many of them have also made enough money to afford more gear. notice i said more, not better. ive seen"pro" gear handled by people that can barely plug it in. ive seen supposedly "cheap" gear played better than you could probably ever hope for.

The half assed metal band isnt going to grow that other cheek just because they spend more on gear. a great musician will still be great on an affordable instrument.

Squier and Schecter are in no EFFIN way equatable to your multimeter comparison. as i mentioned before, tons of pros play Squier and Schecter. and just as there are better and worse Squiers, there are better and worse fenders. with the worst fenders costing more than the good Squiers. just admit it. youre a snob. thats fine. but youre also the cliche snob that thinks money makes you better. get off that horse.

This may stir the hornet's nest

take the stings you deserve.

 

[Honkey tonk]

even a small show should have some thoughtful production value really anything to make a solid impression and keep them wanting more...
it's really all about the big picture
I dont think Playing cheap instruments should be the heart and focus of a production

Taking a Lear to work and rocking a 200 dollar axe gets no special credit

 

[MattZilla]

It’s so interesting which threads stay on topic past nine pages.

before the band even played a note, I took a look at their gear and drew the conclusion that they

I definitely do this.

There are a few brands that seem to attract people who are both less stage-ready as players than they think they are and are plateaued at that skill level that they seem to deem “good enough”.

39 times out of 40 that I see a Schecter on stage, I know I’m gonna overhear some retiree in the audience say something along the lines of “no wonder the younger generation doesn’t want to go see live music.” and I know that if/when I see them five years later they’re really unlikely to have refined any aspect of their craft.

39 times out of 40 that I see a Danelectro on stage, it turns out to be a killer show with multiple absolute monster musicians onstage.

There are a bunch of other brands out there that fit into one or the other of these two slots, but if I start going into them, I’m sure I’ll start quoting Pirsig, and that’s never good.

 

[Deleted member 394181]

I was once a gear snob. Until I bought and upgraded a MIM Fender Jazz. Now I want a MIJ Jazz. I used to think I should only buy U.S. made Fenders. Its stupid because I've owned lots of Basses that werent.
BTW, Rickenbackers should always be made in the U.S.

 

[BaltBass5]

So if they are not being paid a stipend and not receiving any free gear, what is exactly the incentive for a musician to endorse a company and their products? Sorry I’m not sure I understand

The way all of my endorsement deals have worked is that I have been given relatively deep discounts. However, most companies have insisted that you are already a player of their gear prior to considering an endorsement deal.

 

[BaltBass5]

just admit it. youre a snob. thats fine. but youre also the cliche snob that thinks money makes you better. get off that horse.

You know NOTHING about me so don't make assumptions and throw personal attacks. Get off THAT high horse.

If you asked I'd tell you what I play and why but I'm sure that since you think you already know everything about me you couldn't care less.

If I found a Schecter or a Squier that fit the bill I'd play the $hit out of it but I've yet to find one....along with basses from many other brands.

As far as Bassists go I don't particularly care for the tone of many of Schecter's touring pros....I'm not saying they are bad players, I'm saying I don't care for the specs or tone of their instruments.

 

[IAMPK]

A bassist who is now inactive on TB, and who will go unnamed, was definitely more of a bass collector than a proficient player.

At a meet-up, I saw his gear collection and was duly impressed. But, his playing was dreadful. No matter how many posts a TBer has made, I now avoid conferring credibility until I've heard them play.

Yup, time on talkbass is time away from practice/playing. Definitely no direct correlation of skills

 

[deff]

The way all of my endorsement deals have worked is that I have been given relatively deep discounts. However, most companies have insisted that you are already a player of their gear prior to considering an endorsement deal.

I don't know about the second part but definitely the first part is accurate. The people I know in bands that are big enough to be given endorsement deals basically get what is a slightly below wholesale or cost to build the thing discount. This includes some grammy nominated people.

I will disagree with the second part because I know that while for the most part it is true some amp/pedal/cab companies will offer steep discounts to sway the artist in a direction as long as it is someone that they think will use and appreciate their stuff.

I think the days of being paid for endorsements by big companies is long past.

 

[BaltBass5]

I don't know about the second part but definitely the first part is accurate. The people I know in bands that are big enough to be given endorsement deals basically get what is a slightly below wholesale or cost to build the thing discount. This includes some grammy nominated people.

I will disagree with the second part because I know that while for the most part it is true some amp/pedal/cab companies will offer steep discounts to sway the artist in a direction as long as it is someone that they think will use and appreciate their stuff.

I think the days of being paid for endorsements by big companies is long past.

I would agree with you on the second part....although not my experience, I could certainly see companies trying to sway highly visible artists that aren't currently using their gear.

 

[IAMPK]

I disagree, many guys just love to have expensive coffee table basses with weird shapes and 20 knobs, custom made basses from Fender or any other “Classic oriented” builder.. And I think its just great, they dont have be good players.

Just like car or plane enthusiasts don’t have to be pilots

I don't think anyone said that one couldn't own or even collect multiple nice basses, just that that doesn't correlate to them being a good player.

 

[deff]

I would agree with you on the second part....although not my experience, I could certainly see companies trying to sway highly visible artists that aren't currently using their gear.

I know one guy who got heads from Orange, Quilter, Peavey and Darkglass all in one year. I'm not sure if he still uses any of them. I feel like consumables are a bit different. Sometimes strings and sticks and stuff are free or close to it.

 

[Bruce Pete]

I really appreciate high quality craftsmanship in everything I own, not just my instruments.

With that said, I certainly cannot play up to the level of quality of my basses so, go ahead and leave now, I won't be offended nor will I care, lol

 

[IAMPK]

Fair enough. However, in the case of a few of those people (Duff Comes to mind) I saw Gn'R playing in small venues before their success and he was playing the exact same gear he is still using.

I guess my point was more that I felt my bias was based upon the fact that IMO if you have been playing long enough and are serious about playing you will invest money into tools that will help you better do your job. When I walk in and see people that are playing in a relatively successful band (even at a local level) and they are still playing on junk it tells me that they really don't care all that much and consider it to be a hobby.

I would agree if they sounded like crap playing on "junk" but if they sound good, does a more expensive bass "help you better do your job"? I don't think so. It just makes you "look the part."

 

[BaltBass5]

I would agree if they sounded like crap playing on "junk" but if they sound good, does a more expensive bass "help you better do your job"? I don't think so. It just makes you "look the part."

Respectfully disagree. If you sound great on a junk bass you're prob going to sound even better on a nicer bass.
Better electronics will give even better tone. A more comfortable neck will help you play faster and fret easier. Better hardware will help the intonation and more stable tuning.

 

[Jazzdogg]

I would agree if they sounded like crap playing on "junk" but if they sound good, does a more expensive bass "help you better do your job"? I don't think so. It just makes you "look the part."

In my experience, part of the cost of a better bass is due to selection or customization of elements that better match the needs of a given player.

I don't play expensive basses, but I have customized a few of the basses I already own to make them more comfortable to play for extended perods of time, to make adjustments for playability faster or easier to achieve, to replace tuning machines so the instrument stays in tune better during gigs, to replace one kind of fret with another, to enhance an instrument's balance or reduce its weight, to modify the sound, to replace the controls, or to improve the looks. If I weren't capable of doing the work myself, I would likely have chosen between a different instrument that already had the attibutes I was looking for, or having a luthier do the customization. I wouldn't have bothered if the instrument didn't sound acceptable to begin with. None of this has much to do with trying to "look the part."

I read posts on TB all the time about folks buying an affordable instrument and making some of the changes I mentioned, above, all of the time. Somehow, the pro players I've known, who are on the road at least half the year, seldom have the time, energy, or requisite skills to make these kinds of changes themselves. Some have had the luxury of having some of the easier changes performed by a "guitar tech" who travels with the band. But most have done so by selecting instruments that already have the features they are looking for, which typically cost more. The touring pros I've known spend more time strapped to their instruments than the bassists on TB. They typically want their instrument to give them what they want, consistently, gig after gig; touring and recording already gives them abundant challenges without having to worry about their instruments.

 

[Liko]

My questions to the collective:

1. Do you advertently or inadvertently have a gear bias?
2. What is it based upon?
3. Who are some other pro-level artists that routinely use "entry" to "mid-level" gear?

1. I've tried not to have one, because experience has taught me much like you; musical talent and technical skill has no inherent or innate connection to cost of gear. I've had players with $600 worth of gear blow me away both technically and sonically, and I've had players bring $6,000 worth of gear and proceed to squat down and lay a nice fat coil on the stage. Musicians come in all types and at all income levels, whether they make their living on stage or not.

2. My biggest gear bias is with amps, mostly because they cause the biggest problems for me both as a sound engineer and as a casual listener. It's not so much how cheap or expensive, but your wattage, speakers and connections. Bringing too much or too little rig for the gig causes headaches of different kinds, and speaks volumes to your experience and professionalism as a musician. I honestly could care less which axe you plug in, I've seen and heard just about everything sound good, and bad, with price being little determinant. The loudbox on stage, that's usually where you and I are gonna have a problem, if we do.

3. Not new, but there's a video of a jam session where Victor Wooten, known for his $15,000 Foderas, rocks a sub-grand Sire V7 instead:

... and he's a Hartke artist, which is a brand I've never really considered high-end, though it appears they certainly can be these days.

 

[Jazzdogg]

The way all of my endorsement deals have worked is that I have been given relatively deep discounts. However, most companies have insisted that you are already a player of their gear prior to considering an endorsement deal.

Not a bass example, but I know some horn players who played with Tower of Power. TOP is endorsed by Yamaha, and their brass and woodwind players all play Yamaha horns on stage. These horns are provided by Yamaha at no cost to the players.

 

[Slevage]

Its my understanding they make parts used by major pedal companies etc...thats what ive heard?

The Ber… amps that I have worked on have inadequately sized components where it counts. Not solving the higher end stuff-you get what you pay for. Ber.. speakers are inexpensive from r a reason.
Their gear that doesn’t see any significant current is OK.

 

[Heiwa]

Respectfully disagree. If you sound great on a junk bass you're prob going to sound even better on a nicer bass.
Better electronics will give even better tone. A more comfortable neck will help you play faster and fret easier. Better hardware will help the intonation and more stable tuning.

Not true. A pro musician makes the best out of anything.