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Double Bass gear change . . . again

A

anonymous02282011

Jun 27, 2007
2,132
9
#1
Previously: AI clarus --> Wizzy10

Now: WW old green light --> a 15 (or two!)

FC, sometimes an AMT if i'm feeling not so lazy.

I love the walter woods. I really do; and I miss the Clarus, but I have no regrets. Now, if the Walter craps out, that's another story!

Everything UncleToad had reported about his experience comp/ctrsting WW to AI was right on the mark. WW is def a colored amp, while the clarus was true to the acoustic beauty of the instrument. The company name, AcousticImage, is def true to itself. However, I've had some good luck thus far with running the AMT mic through the woods. It adds a bit of "eu natural" to the woods color, which is big and dark. lots of of lo-mid push. i love it. And the power rating on the woods seems really conservative. It cranks.

Cabs: A few months ago, I was loving the wizzy10. I still do. It's great and the shlep is heaven. But after many months of gigging, I found it lacking in the low end and sometimes just wasn't loud enough. It def projects and is fantastic. I may go back to it. Jury's still out I guess.

So, I was recently asked if i had a PA system by this singer who I was doing a one night stint with. I said sure, and brought my old SVT with two 15s, which, I think sound great with vocals in the 2nd channel. Turns out she DID bring her own PA, and here I had just schlepped all this gear! Sooo, I put my 15s on either side of the drums, plugged in my old german bass with FC p/u and it was HEAVEN! Those low Fs and Es rumbled so pleasantly. The drummer told me it was the best sound he'd ever heard from a bass (he's a little wet behind the ears, but a good drummer; anyway that's what he said.) There's some kind of magic in that 100lb. amp. I tell ya.

Now, the 15s are a pain in the butt. they sound great, but they are another trip to the car. ugh. So, despite all that's been posted, I'm waiting on an epifani PS 112. We'll see how that works out.

In the meantime, I have a special weekend ahead of me. I'm playing with the drummer Eric Harland on Sat night, and Sun night opening for the guitarist Kurt Rosenwinkel.:hyper: It's going to be the WW and a 15. I'll report back next week.

Oh, and I also got a good WW story if anyone's interested.
 
#2
Aw, I've just bought a Clarus plus 10" wizzy to try and keep up with you guys on your side of the pond! Mind you, I also got a 12" wizzy that caters for the bottom very well. So it'll be12" for Dixie and 10" for Piano trio - that should do it.

Now, how does anyone think I'd get on with a small Markbass combo?
 
#5
thesneakyjesus said:
hey adbass.


Something crazy sounding... but follow me


Bergantino HT110. They sound like a lot of 15s. No joke.

They have a low end response that is just crazy. I have two of them. They're kinda heavy... so that bugs me. But, one is small enough to take in one trip. Worth checking out you know.
Click to expand...

The Bergs love Acoustic Image amps for upright bass. I've
been using a Focus head with a Berg HT112. MAGIC! However,
I loved my Woods head tons and worked very well with the
HT112. The Bergs are not light weight speakers, but they
sound killer with the Woods and an acoustic bass.
 
#6
Thanks guys. A friend of mine has a berg 12. i'll be checking it out soon.

What i'd like to do is minidisc the various cabs and post sound clips online. If anyone can point towards the appropriate website/application or whatever, that would be great.

Ben Street was playing with Kurt Rosenwinkle this weekend. He ended up using my rig (woods, 15, AMT to house). Sounded great. We talked a bit after the show, and, if anyone is interested, he uses an RE20 microphone (manufacturer?) at the Vangaurd and keeps a little GK combo in tow when there's no mic. When he started playing through the woods, he said he'd never actually played through one before. Go figure.
 
#7
adbass said:
Ben Street was playing with Kurt Rosenwinkle this weekend. He ended up using my rig (woods, 15, AMT to house). Sounded great. We talked a bit after the show, and, if anyone is interested, he uses an RE20 microphone (manufacturer?) at the Vangaurd and keeps a little GK combo in tow when there's no mic ...
Click to expand...
Electro-Voice or EV for short.
 
#8
I got the epifani ps112 hooked up the woods, a MI-200-8. My initial impression: this is different. very different. Honestly, at first I didn't love it. But the more I play it, well, it's growing on me. I keep the tweeter almost completely off, and the woods is set totally flat. My psychological analysis for this combo right now is that it's very passive-aggressive. The sound is very rich and present, dare I say silky smooth -- but not it's not in your face. There is something going on in the mids, but I'm not quite sure how to describe it. The big plus is that it still sounds like me! Basically, I'm gigging it this weekend and will report back later.

As compared to the 15s: the best way to describe it would be to say that the 12 has less "thunk". The ps112 and the 15 together were out of this world, but hey! i'm trying too lighten the load!

I'm curious to know if other folks have tried the woods/epifani combo and what the likes/dislikes are. I've searched and read that it can sound harsh, and that the lows can get muddy. I'm not getting the harsh part; the muddiness may reveal itself on a gig.

I'm also thinking about pairing this with a bergantino 12. Any thoughts are appreciated. By the way, I play a German shop bass, carved, with full circle. Thanks all.
 
#10
adbass said:
Ben Street was playing with Kurt Rosenwinkle this weekend. He ended up using my rig (woods, 15, AMT to house). Sounded great. We talked a bit after the show, and, if anyone is interested, he uses an RE20 microphone (manufacturer?) at the Vangaurd and keeps a little GK combo in tow when there's no mic. When he started playing through the woods, he said he'd never actually played through one before. Go figure.
Click to expand...


I love the EV RE-20. It is a large diaphragm dynamic mic. Terrific low end without being boomy. Great off axis rejection. Great punch. It's only drawback it is REALLY big and heavy (about 26 oz.). There is no way this puppy will work with an H clamp. It is my favorite mic to record with and I just bought one to use live for those occasions when I want to use a mic.

mark
 
#11
A little update: After a few gigs this weekend, I'm in love with epifani ps112. I feel like I've been going through these one night stands with pieces of gear. It's cool, trial and error. This weekend I ended up running a signal from my pickup to a fancy tube pre-amp, into the woods and to the epifani. The tweeter on just a hair.

Once I get the bergantino 12 I will post sound clips online -- as soon as I have some free time. This would probably be most useful to the TB community in comparing the 12s, 15s etc etc. The difficult part will be trying to decide what pieces I'm going to keep!
 
#12
just when you thought (hoped?) this thread was dead . . . .

i've gone through 2 WWs, and epi ps112 and a berg ex112. Here's what ive settled on:

the stereo WWs MI225 and the berg ex112. My research on TB had indicated that the berg would be the favorite, and it was. The epifani is a sound unto itself, very meaty, punchy with big lows and smooth mids and highs. I found I didn't really need the tweeter on the epifani for upright bass. The berg is uncolored, but has a mature low end response that will work in any room, esp with the woods. it is also slightly closer to the sound of a 15" TL606, on of my faves, so it's a keeper.

I think for electric bass, i prefer the epi. The stack of the two is insanely good, as they complement each other quite well.

I've got a VL208 coming in the next couple of days. That may trump the berg.
 
#13
adbass said:
just when you thought (hoped?) this thread was dead . . . .

i've gone through 2 WWs, and epi ps112 and a berg ex112. Here's what ive settled on:

the stereo WWs MI225 and the berg ex112. My research on TB had indicated that the berg would be the favorite, and it was. The epifani is a sound unto itself, very meaty, punchy with big lows and smooth mids and highs. I found I didn't really need the tweeter on the epifani for upright bass. The berg is uncolored, but has a mature low end response that will work in any room, esp with the woods. it is also slightly closer to the sound of a 15" TL606, on of my faves, so it's a keeper.

I think for electric bass, i prefer the epi. The stack of the two is insanely good, as they complement each other quite well.

I've got a VL208 coming in the next couple of days. That may trump the berg.
Click to expand...

Nice going, VL 208's don't exactly grow on trees. Our friend Ken Jung on the EB side has used both Bergs and Epi's with his Walter Woods. He preferred the Bergantino's with his Walter Woods Ultra. I trust Ken's ears, he's never steered me wrong yet. I'm a little concerned about the power coming from the MI 225. VL Cabinets are pretty power hungry and they don't have the sensitivity or SPL of the newer cabs. That's just my opinion though I really hope it works out for you.

Ric
 
#14
Ric Vice said:
Nice going, VL 208's don't exactly grow on trees. Our friend Ken Jung on the EB side has used both Bergs and Epi's with his Walter Woods. He preferred the Bergantino's with his Walter Woods Ultra. I trust Ken's ears, he's never steered me wrong yet. I'm a little concerned about the power coming from the MI 225. VL Cabinets are pretty power hungry and they don't have the sensitivity or SPL of the newer cabs. That's just my opinion though I really hope it works out for you.

Ric
Click to expand...

Ric, I remember reading Ken, Tom Bs and lots of other opinions stating the bergantino12 got along better with the WW than the epifani12. I just had to hear it for myself! The experience was certainly worth the while, and I can now say I truly respect the experienced ears and opinions found here on TB.

I trust what you're saying about the VL208 being power hungry. In fact, I'd read that before in previous posts (uncletoad, chris fitz, etc) and this time I'm ready. The stereo WWs model I have can be bridged to output 700W. I think it's going to be a happy marriage between amp and speaker cabinet.

For now, I've decided to keep the bergantino, but if the VL208 is as good as TBers collectively report, I may soon have a little extra space in my apartment. Maybe I'll expand my collection of cacti!
 
#15
adbass said:
Ric, I remember reading Ken, Tom Bs and lots of other opinions stating the bergantino12 got along better with the WW than the epifani12. I just had to hear it for myself! The experience was certainly worth the while, and I can now say I truly respect the experienced ears and opinions found here on TB.

I trust what you're saying about the VL208 being power hungry. In fact, I'd read that before in previous posts (uncletoad, chris fitz, etc) and this time I'm ready. The stereo WWs model I have can be bridged to output 700W. I think it's going to be a happy marriage between amp and speaker cabinet.
Click to expand...

AdBass,
Well I'm a little confused here, but happy for you. The older mono MI 225's that I'm familiar with, were just that, 225 Watt amplifiers. Basically, Walter just put two mono 100 watt power amps in tandem somehow. So he must have made something else along the way and called it a MI 225 again. Walter has built a lot of different configurations over the years. The 700 watt model should be more than enough power for the VL 208. I'm really glad you don't have one of the mono 225's because, according to Walter, there the only amp that he can no longer repair. Whew!

Ric

Ric
 
#16
Ric Vice said:
I'm really glad you don't have one of the mono 225's because, according to Walter, there the only amp that he can no longer repair. Whew!
Click to expand...

That's good information Ric. I know that Walter's amp hold up pretty well over decades, so unless you have Uncletoads bad luck with blowing up expensive amps, you should be OK!

I actually ended up with a "very rare" (Walters words) stereo version with "crossovers" on each channel. The "crossovers" -- this is what's written on the face of the amp -- are actually just high and lo pass filters.

I bought it here on TB, via Nickybass, via interp. It's a pretty cool amp: Each channel can handle either 8ohms (225watts) or 4ohms (350watts). So, there are a number of ways you can pull 700watts from the amp.

1. daisy chain two 8ohm cabs into each channel

2. or run two 4ohm cabs to each channel

3. or Use the bridging cable to output 700watts to a single 8ohm cab.

lot of options. Walters amps are brilliant for upright bass. I can't imagine using anything else now. I hope I feel the same way about the 208. Based on my experience with euphonic audio's wizzy10, I have faith in the EA cabinets.
 
#17
adbass said:
I actually ended up with a "very rare" (Walters words) stereo version with "crossovers" on each channel. The "crossovers" -- this is what's written on the face of the amp -- are actually just high and lo pass filters.

I bought it here on TB, via Nickybass, via interp. It's a pretty cool amp: Each channel can handle either 8ohms (225watts) or 4ohms (350watts). So, there are a number of ways you can pull 700watts from the amp.

1. daisy chain two 8ohm cabs into each channel

2. or run two 4ohm cabs to each channel

3. or Use the bridging cable to output 700watts to a single 8ohm cab.

lot of options. Walters amps are brilliant for upright bass. I can't imagine using anything else now. I hope I feel the same way about the 208. Based on my experience with euphonic audio's wizzy10, I have faith in the EA cabinets.
Click to expand...

If you are willing, it would be great for all of us to see a couple of photos of this amp. I been collecting them by mining the web and someday perhaps Walter will let us publish them. He builds incredible amps and over the years there have been a great deal of variations within a group of amps. Here are a couple of older MI 225-8 pictures

Ric
 
#19
Ric Vice said:
If you are willing, it would be great for all of us to see a couple of photos of this amp. I been collecting them by mining the web and someday perhaps Walter will let us publish them. He builds incredible amps and over the years there have been a great deal of variations within a group of amps. Here are a couple of older MI 225-8 pictures

Ric
Click to expand...

Ric, this is a pic of EXACTLY the WW model that I have. I believe it's c. mid-Eighties. Can this one be bridged like the one Adbass has? It is stereo.

Adbass, From the pics of yours, that model is deffinately of more recent vintage than this MI-225-8.

BTW- mine is a great amp w/ killer tone into most any good bass speaker. Currently I'm loving it w/my Wizzy 10 and Wizzy M-line 12. I also use a AI Focus 2R III. Everthing I need for just about ANY situation.
 
#20
bribass said:
Ric, this is a pic of EXACTLY the WW model that I have. I believe it's c. mid-Eighties. Can this one be bridged like the one Adbass has? It is stereo.

Adbass, From the pics of yours, that model is deffinately of more recent vintage than this MI-225-8.

BTW- mine is a great amp w/ killer tone into most any good bass speaker. Currently I'm loving it w/my Wizzy 10 and Wizzy M-line 12. I also use a AI Focus 2R III. Everthing I need for just about ANY situation.
Click to expand...

Bribass,
The picture that I posted is a mono MI 225 from the late 80's. To get that power rating Walter actually "bridged" two of the power amps from the MI-100-8's so you amp is already bridged internally. If you look at Adbass's amp it's a much later model with two 225 watt power amps that you can use separately or bridge to up the power. What I was trying to show, obviously I didn't do it to well. Walter actually built two completely different amplifiers, at different times and both of them were "MI-225-8" the stereo amps all have a red top that's what identifies it.

Ric
 

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