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Geddy Lee Exit Stage Left Bass Tone

#41
Cool thread, btw. Again: a Ric and a J-bass sound very different when run flat (even with the same player and technique), but it's not easy to tell them apart on the albums where Geddy used both.

So, I agree with Mossmatic that the bass isn't crucial. F'r instance, I once heard a bassist clone the Tool bass tone using a Ken Smith Burner, rather than a Wal. So, the discussion of Geddy's tone should concentrate on his amp rig rather than Ric vs. J-bass.

Geddy followed the general strategy pioneered by John Entwistle and Chris Squire, who used a bass rig for clean lows/mids and a guitar rig for dirty mids/highs. Geddy didn't follow that exactly, but back in the ESL days he used complicated rigs, combining multiple signals.

I recall one old tour program which listed multiple Furman parametric EQs. I don't recall the remaining details, but the exact components don't matter, in fact many of them might no longer exist. There are multiple ways to achieve that end (I recall Billy Sheehan using a crazy stereo/biamp clean/dirty rig for his tone), but the end result will require experimentation and possibly be expensive.

Yes, technique matters... but again, in the case of players like these who use processed tones, gear matters just as much.
 
#42
Like many of you I was also inspired to pick up a bass after listening to Geddy play on various Rush albums. Moving Pictures was the most influential album to me. The songs were brilliant and the bass lines, while not always technically difficult, were incredible and perfect for each song. What surprised me is how overly distorted the bass actually is. By itself it almost sounds bad but within the mix it sounds fantastic. I guess my point is, when working on your bass sound, you have to consider how it sounds with the whole band. I bass that sounds great by itself may not sound right or fit within some bands.
 
#43
Musiclogic said:
This is very Bizarre to me, as Geddy played through the "Dinosaur" rig through Grace Under Pressure Tour, and Brought it back for Presto. He was playing through Ashly Preamps and BGW 7500 Power amps. He started using that rig just after 2112. I never knew he added Ampeg and Sunn stuff after the Original Ashly BGW rack rig was assembled.
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I hope I was not causing any confusion, the Moving Pictures/exit tour was played using the Ashley/BGW rig. A previous post had asked if Geddy had used Sunn amps, yes, but on previous tours. I hope this clarifies my previous posting.
 
#44
sanderic said:
I hope I was not causing any confusion, the Moving Pictures/exit tour was played using the Ashley/BGW rig. A previous post had asked if Geddy had used Sunn amps, yes, but on previous tours. I hope this clarifies my previous posting.
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Man, you guys need to specify who you're answering with these things if you're NOT talking about ESL. :hyper::D
 
#45
geddy used the ashley/bgw into V4B/Thiel 215 for permanent waves forward and then switched the ashleys out to Furman preamps around GuP through Roll the Bones. He then used a trace elliot rig for the counterparts tour before going to his dryer rig.

sanderic said:
I hope I was not causing any confusion, the Moving Pictures/exit tour was played using the Ashley/BGW rig. A previous post had asked if Geddy had used Sunn amps, yes, but on previous tours. I hope this clarifies my previous posting.
Click to expand...
 
#46
Saw the Signals tour and Power Windows
I thought at one point Geddy brought out the Stein on a tune on the Signals show
I remember thinking it was an odd looking bass on Digital Man
First time I saw one and heard one live
It could very well be he was trying it on for size that night and trying to work it in ?
Maybe I caught it on the night on tour where it was a rare moment?
 
#49
to me knowledge, geddy never used Ashley preamps, i could be wrong.
his rig of tht era was:
2x Furman PQ-3 preamps
2x API 550 eq's
2x BGW 750C power amps
2x Ampeg V4B 2x15 folded horn subs
2x Theil 1x15 cabs
1x Boss GE-7 mid boosted for solos ("too noisey" for most Talkbass'ers but ok for Geddy apparently)
 
#50
sanderic said:
More truth than fiction my friend. I came up trying to imitate GL and Chris Squire. When I got my 76 Jazz bass, I was amazed at how good a "Rick" sound I got. When I later got my 78 4001, I was amazed at how much it didn't sound like Chris Squire. There's more to your sound than the brand of bass you play.
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I thought I read somewhere that Chris Squire used to record with a Jazz bass and used the Rick live. Anyone else hear this? One of my bass heroes was Gary Strater of the band Starcastle. What I always assumed was a Rickenbacker was actually an Alembic. Although he did play Ricks as well, especially early on. The point is that the bass is less important than the person playing it. Sanderic posted that he got more of a Rick sound out of his 76 Jazz bass. Me too out of my 72, and I was always disappointed with the un-Rick like tone I got from my 4001s. So I just assumed that maybe Geddy was recording more with that Jazz than can be assumed by photos and videos. One last thing...every live album is touched up in the studio...some to the point where the only thing live is the audience cheering. Is it not possible that Geddy touched up ESL in the studio with the Jazz, while most of the live playing was done with the Rick?
 
#51
Mike Sorr said:
I thought I read somewhere that Chris Squire used to record with a Jazz bass and used the Rick live. Anyone else hear this? One of my bass heroes was Gary Strater of the band Starcastle. What I always assumed was a Rickenbacker was actually an Alembic. Although he did play Ricks as well, especially early on. The point is that the bass is less important than the person playing it. Sanderic posted that he got more of a Rick sound out of his 76 Jazz bass. Me too out of my 72, and I was always disappointed with the un-Rick like tone I got from my 4001s. So I just assumed that maybe Geddy was recording more with that Jazz than can be assumed by photos and videos. One last thing...every live album is touched up in the studio...some to the point where the only thing live is the audience cheering. Is it not possible that Geddy touched up ESL in the studio with the Jazz, while most of the live playing was done with the Rick?
Click to expand...

Never heard that about CS but I can get really close to my Ric tones with my Jazz.
 
#52
Hi. I own a 1973 Rickenbacker 4001. I've had it for almost 30 years and I know its sound very well. There is a certain mellow low in the bottom end of a Ric, higher up around the 5th-12th fret, that is just not there on a Jazz. I have also a Squier 1970's VMJ, which I A/B'd at the store with a Geddy Lee Jazz when I bought it. They are almost identical in feel and tone. So I have both sounds, and I tend to agree that the ESL version of YYZ is a jazz. Listen to his high runs. Sometimes it is really quite saturated in the low mids. It can compete with the bottom end of a snare sometimes. You can hear the same kind of thing coming from McCartney's Ric on Sgt. Pepper, in the high runs. It's hard to describe but it is definitely not part of the Jazz sound. The growl is the same. The low part is not. The deep lows of a Rickenbacker are definitely more prominent than those of a Jazz bass, at least an early to mid 1970's model.

Edited to add: Thinking about this, I have a neck pickup very close to the neck itself -- less than half an inch from the edge of the pickguard. Much closer than the Jazz' neck pickup. Also, a Ric is a 33 1/2 scale bass I think, where a Jazz is a bit longer. The shorter scale might help explain the difference as every short-scale bass I've ever touched had tremendous bottom end. I imagine there's some physics principle behind that. The body is also much smaller but weighs about the same as a Jazz. I've had them both on the scales and they're around 8 lbs or so. So the Ric might be denser wood.

Treat all of the above as raw speculation.

Final edit: I usually roll off my bridge pickup on my Jazz bass. I usually roll off the neck pickup of the Ric. The Ric still has more boom.
 
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#53
jgroh said:
Never heard that about CS but I can get really close to my Ric tones with my Jazz.
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Sorry for the topic deviation, but for those that are interested this is from an old TB thread on Chris Squire's style, but I'm sure I read it in a magazine article as well. Here's a link to the thread, http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f8/chris-squire-style-564571/


maxschrek said: In fact, I've read numerous interviews where he said the majority of the classic recordings from "Tales from Topographic Oceans" (1973) until around the "Drama" era (1980) were done on that blonde 72' (?) Jazz bass you see above. He also used a non-reverse T-bird to great effect. Always sounds like the same bass.
 
#54
I almost hate to throw more wood on the fire, but I'm totally convinced YYZ from ESL is the Ric. I have never gotten closer to achieving that sound than when I use my old 4003 (even had/has 70s p'ups in it, among other things). A Jazz, at least in my hands, is pretty incapable of sounding like that kind of Geddy tone.

The stereo Ric sound is not easy to cop from a mono-output Jazz, IMHO. Also, and this is pure conjecture, but why would he switch basses for just one song from his designed-around-the-Ric-o-Sound rig? It doesn't seem like it makes much sense... I mean, *I'd* just use the Ric

:hiding:
 
#57
Mike Sorr said:
I thought I read somewhere that Chris Squire used to record with a Jazz bass and used the Rick live. Anyone else hear this? One of my bass heroes was Gary Strater of the band Starcastle. What I always assumed was a Rickenbacker was actually an Alembic. Although he did play Ricks as well, especially early on. The point is that the bass is less important than the person playing it. Sanderic posted that he got more of a Rick sound out of his 76 Jazz bass. Me too out of my 72, and I was always disappointed with the un-Rick like tone I got from my 4001s. So I just assumed that maybe Geddy was recording more with that Jazz than can be assumed by photos and videos. One last thing...every live album is touched up in the studio...some to the point where the only thing live is the audience cheering. Is it not possible that Geddy touched up ESL in the studio with the Jazz, while most of the live playing was done with the Rick?
Click to expand...

Thanks for mentioning Gary Strater of Starcastle. If you are a fan of Geddy Lee or Chris Squire, you must check out "Fountains of Light" by Starcastle..
 
#59
This thread just reminded me of a live recording of Rush I had taped off the "King Biscuit Radio Hour" in the early 80s.
It was "live from St. Louis" and was the most awe-inspiring growly bass sound and inspirational bass playing I have ever heard in my life.

Never been moved by a recorded bass recording like that live recording.

I have never been able to find a copy of that recording but will never stop trying. Truely inspiring.

BTW my late 70's Rickenbacker never sounded like Geddy's!
 

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