Gene Simmons LoBue Tribute Build

[Neek]

There are no shortcuts to take when using a router. If you are going to use a long bit to cut the entire body depth, then you need to spend a lot of time sanding the body as close as possible to the final shape. Think of it as "shaving" the final last 1/8" (or less) off the body. If you are going to use shorter top-bearing bits, you need to take your time and make multiple shallow passes when cutting the final shape. I have never had any luck doing anything on the router in one quick pass, unless it was making copies of templates into thin MDF. It certainly is a brute of a tool at times.

Either way, I really dig the current headstock design. I don't know much about Gene Simmons or his bass guitars, but I would rock this tribute bass simply based on looks alone!

 

[bassgod76]

There are no shortcuts to take when using a router. If you are going to use a long bit to cut the entire body depth, then you need to spend a lot of time sanding the body as close as possible to the final shape. Think of it as "shaving" the final last 1/8" (or less) off the body. If you are going to use shorter top-bearing bits, you need to take your time and make multiple shallow passes when cutting the final shape. I have never had any luck doing anything on the router in one quick pass, unless it was making copies of templates into thin MDF. It certainly is a brute of a tool at times.

Either way, I really dig the current headstock design. I don't know much about Gene Simmons or his bass guitars, but I would rock this tribute bass simply based on looks alone!

I think my problem last night was that I was trying to take off too much. Or rather, I left too much left over on the body.
This guy's guitar is almost flush with the template.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zzB_5k1yGE

My question is how do you get the body that close without leaving ghastly mill marks?

I think my relief cuts I made were a bit too long when I tried cutting a body from a band saw for the first time.

Is a band saw even the best tool?

Help me not waste my time.

 

[bassgod76]

And just to let you know, it wasn't like I was jamming the piece into the router blade. I'd slowly creep it towards the blade. As soon as the blade even touched the piece, tear out and mayhem resulted.

Thus why I need to get the piece to be almost flush with the template.

 

[Ronbeast]

When I use my bandsaw to rough cut the body, I usually try to get within a half or a quarter of the diameter of the router bit that I am going to be using to do my final shaping. I've found this method to work pretty well.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

And just to let you know, it wasn't like I was jamming the piece into the router blade. I'd slowly creep it towards the blade. As soon as the blade even touched the piece, tear out and mayhem resulted.

Thus why I need to get the piece to be almost flush with the template.

Same thing happened to me with that bit. I was using maple, rather than fir. The maple reacted...poorly. The nail in the coffin was when I had no sooner touched the thing to the bit than it got yanked out from under the template (yes it was taped quite securely with double-sided tape) and tossed across the workshop.

I found that it would tear and yank no matter how slowly or gingerly I fed the thing.

When I use my bandsaw to rough cut the body, I usually try to get within a half or a quarter of the diameter of the router bit that I am going to be using to do my final shaping. I've found this method to work pretty well.

Aye. I aim for 1/8" outside the line.

 

[bassgod76]

Same thing happened to me with that bit. I was using maple, rather than fir. The maple reacted...poorly. The nail in the coffin was when I had no sooner touched the thing to the bit than it got yanked out from under the template (yes it was taped quite securely with double-sided tape) and tossed across the workshop.

I found that it would tear and yank no matter how slowly or gingerly I fed the thing.



Aye. I aim for 1/8" outside the line.

I think I will try that top bearing bit idea. I think if I block the piece like .75" above the template, I will be able to control it better, by only a small portion of the blade touching the piece at a time.

 

[bassgod76]

Or I may just make a thicker template.

 

[Blazer]

And now for a refreshing intermission...

"Lick it up, lick it up aaah-haah-haah, it's only right now."

Okay back to our scheduled program.

 

[Immigrant]

Am I right in assuming that the butt should be fed first?

Cartman had everyone believing that for awhile.

Props on the build. This is gonna be cool!

 

[Ironfingers]

+1 on cutting the body to within 1/8" of the line. The less bite you take with the router the better. If you can't do that, then take short, shallow freehand passes until you get up to the template. If you have a 1/4" blade for your bandsaw, you can do less relief cuts.

Also watch your feed direction. You want the cutter to be cutting into the body so it's basically pushing the fibres into the body of the wood and not lifting them towards the outside. At least that's the way I think about it. What is called downhill cutting. The problem with downhill cutting is that you will eventually have to climb cut which can be dangerous. That is, moving the piece with the direction of rotation which can catch the wood and send it flying (on a router table) or cause loss of control of your router if freehanding.

So this is the bit I use. It's a down shear so it already helps with tearout, plus it has bearings on both ends so you can flip your body upside down and you can always be cutting downhill without having to climb cut. The 2" length lets you do the whole thing in one pass.

It's a bit pricey, but worth it if you are going to be making more than one body.

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[Ironfingers]

What do we think about the length of the headstock? After printing it out, I thought it was a little too long, so I shortened it.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

My experience has been that the height you try to cut does matter.

Are you talking about depth of the cut? Like when you are routing for a pickup? Then yes. You do it in increments.

But not for doing pattern routing. I have a 2" long spiral pattern bit I use for bodies. I band saw the body close to the template, maybe 1/8" past, and rout right up to the template in one pass. If needed, for figured wood, make small passes. But that's depth, and not height. You should rout the full height with a pattern bit.

You don't want to pattern rout in steps or you have have lines on the edges.

Then you use a round over bit, and all that needs to be done is some sanding.

The problem here is he took too deep a pass, and the bit kicked back. It happens to everyone when they first start using a router, or even if you are experienced and not watching your feed rate. This is why you use the starter pin on a router table. This is why I always tell new luthiers to study wood working, not just guitar making. All this stuff has been figured out already.

Everyone seem to be avoiding this issue of the starter pin.

 

[Ironfingers]

I like the starter pin. It was weird at first since I had never used one until we got a real router table. I don't always use it, but probably more than not.

 

[HaMMerHeD]

Are you talking about depth of the cut? Like when you are routing for a pickup? Then yes. You do it in increments.

But not for doing pattern routing. I have a 2" long spiral pattern bit I use for bodies. I band saw the body close to the template, maybe 1/8" past, and rout right up to the template in one pass. If needed, for figured wood, make small passes. But that's depth, and not height. You should rout the full height with a pattern bit.

You don't want to pattern rout in steps or you have have lines on the edges.

Then you use a round over bit, and all that needs to be done is some sanding.

The problem here is he took too deep a pass, and the bit kicked back. It happens to everyone when they first start using a router, or even if you are experienced and not watching your feed rate. This is why you use the starter pin on a router table. This is why I always tell new luthiers to study wood working, not just guitar making. All this stuff has been figured out already.

Everyone seem to be avoiding this issue of the starter pin.

The spiral cut pattern bit probably makes the difference there.

The lines do happen, but sanding takes it out pretty quickly.

 

[bassgod76]

Are you talking about depth of the cut? Like when you are routing for a pickup? Then yes. You do it in increments.

But not for doing pattern routing. I have a 2" long spiral pattern bit I use for bodies. I band saw the body close to the template, maybe 1/8" past, and rout right up to the template in one pass. If needed, for figured wood, make small passes. But that's depth, and not height. You should rout the full height with a pattern bit.

You don't want to pattern rout in steps or you have have lines on the edges.

Then you use a round over bit, and all that needs to be done is some sanding.

The problem here is he took too deep a pass, and the bit kicked back. It happens to everyone when they first start using a router, or even if you are experienced and not watching your feed rate. This is why you use the starter pin on a router table. This is why I always tell new luthiers to study wood working, not just guitar making. All this stuff has been figured out already.

Everyone seem to be avoiding this issue of the starter pin.

I hear what you're saying. I will do some experimenting tomorrow night. I may have to make starter pins since I lack a real table.

 

[bassgod76]

Tonight I messed with Hammered's technique of tierd passes. My thinking was that with the piece being exposed to a smaller part of the blade, I'd be able to control the feed.
Headstock template after bandsaw.

Template after sanding.

After using my template to make a copy.

It worked well, but that was using MDF as the piece to be routed. I do feel that this technique gives me more control.

I will attempt this with real wood tomorrow.

I will also paint this copy and load tuners on it. This way you can see if the dimensions look good.

 

[bassgod76]

Okay! Here is my new mock up! The paint isn't perfect, but this is to gage how close it is to the original.

Your opinion?

 

[ThaCoast]

Okay! Here is my new mock up! The paint isn't perfect, but this is to gage how close it is to the original.

Your opinion?

Looks good, IMO, you should make the white binding tad thicker as if you're incorporate the old headstock shape you had cut out in this new one. So you're not actually following the headstock shape, you're rounding it off on the inside.

 

[bassgod76]

Looks good, IMO, you should make the white binding tad thicker as if you're incorporate the old headstock shape you had cut out in this new one. So you're not actually following the headstock shape, you're rounding it off on the inside.

Gotcha. I hurriedly painted the trim. I have to say that Frog tape works as advertised.

 

[Ironfingers]

It looks good. That's the right idea with the trim.

I'm torn though, do you think it might want to be longer? i.e. more space between the tuners and the top? Now that the tuners are on it's looking to me like it might have been a mistake to shorten it.