Hey, Jason,
Exactly. As you know
I'm an Eden guy, rather than a GB guy ... but running 3 x 112s at 8 ohms each is a *very* nice rig. I've done it before, and anticipate doing it again with my WT330.Cheers,
Liam
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Genz Benz Neo Pak 3.5
- Thread starter i_got_a_mohawk
- Start date
Hey, Jason,
Exactly. As you know
I'm an Eden guy, rather than a GB guy ... but running 3 x 112s at 8 ohms each is a *very* nice rig. I've done it before, and anticipate doing it again with my WT330.Cheers,
Liam
Yeah, I can definitely see that, especially for someone who only has one head. If I were using three 112's, I'd take a larger head myself, much larger than a wt330 or Neo-Pak.Hey, Jason,
Exactly. As you know
Cheers,
Liam
Dude, a WT330 and 3 x D112XLT cabs has blown a double-bass-drum metal drummer I used to jam with off the stage.
I think he'd be dead if I had used a WT550 or something! 
See ya around,
Liam
I agree it would be loud. I'm just saying that if I know that I'll need to drive three 12's, it won't be with a portable head. Just my preference for headroom I guess.Dude, a WT330 and 3 x D112XLT cabs has blown a double-bass-drum metal drummer I used to jam with off the stage.
See ya around,
Liam
Chef
In Memoriam
Curious: has anyone had a chance to A/B the NeoPak 3.5, and the Mesa Walkabout?...which, to me, seems like what it is perhaps "most like."
Is it possible to run a slave amp along with the Neo 3.5? Can the unbalanced out be used for this? This would make it appealing to those of us that really do gig for a living and don't want to have multiple heads.
not everyone who wants high powered heads gig with 200 lbs of speaker, or even 100 lbs of speaker. examples? Acme B2 users who use anywhere from 500-1200 watts per B2, Shroeder Medium box users with power handling ratings in the 800 watt range, or even guys with epifani UL boxes.
looking at the options hat bass players have these days for high power handling but light/small cabinets, i think its easy to see a market for small, light but powerful heads.
looking at the options hat bass players have these days for high power handling but light/small cabinets, i think its easy to see a market for small, light but powerful heads.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,041
- 5
- 220,978
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, absolutely. The easiest way is to take the effects send (pre-master volume control, post everything else) out of the head that you plug your bass into, and return that to the effects return of the second head. The master volume control of the second head will control it's overall volume, and all other controls on the first head will work as normal through the power amp of the second head. A single 1/4" shielded cable will do the trick.
Thanks! I really like the tone of the Neo and it would be ashame to leave it behind for larger shows. I am strongly considering a test drive...
That does make this awesome head even more appealing. I don't know why that possibility didn't even cross my mind. Hell, the Neo-Pak weighs less than half of the pre-amps I own.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,041
- 5
- 220,978
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Yes, no problem. In fact, it's so scalable that you could split your system up and use (for example) one amp and one 212 for smaller gigs and two amps and two 212's for larger gigs. And you would always have a back-up!
You could also build a breakout box and slave 4 or 5 of the amps to a single master amp (talking about overkill).
Forgive my lack of understanding about this but is this what you're saying -- plug the bass into the 3.5, then run a line out of the 3.5 effects send into the slave amp return send and then the 3.5 controls volume, eq, etc.? Then do you run the cabs off the slave amp? Is the wattage now whatever the slave amp is rated?
fenderjazz68 said:
agedhorse said:
Lost me a little here too. What I'm getting from this is -- plug bass into first 3.5 and connect cab or two to it, run line out from effects send of first 3.5 and into effects return of second 3.5. (I Assume that first 3.5 will control volume etc). And then connect another cab or two to second 3.5. This could be running 500 watts each at 2 ohms.
Is this correct or am I missing something?
I don't know what a breakout box is so I won't even go there.
I "get" what you are saying, but it's not really what me or hasbeen means I think. I put 1000 watts into my Neox 212 cab, which is rated at 600 watts. But you know what? It's not noticeably louder than pushing it with 350 watts from my Neo-Pak. That extra 750 watts doesn't do a whole lot, and that's what me and hasbeen are talking about. To really get the FULL benefit of pushing 1000+ watts, you need lots of speaker surface area. I could easily hookup four 8 ohm 410's with my GBE 1200, and drive them fairly well. I couldn't do that with a small, light weight head. That's where the benefit of a big head really shines.
Now, I still like pushing my 212 with the 1200. It offers lots of headroom, and it sounds great. But it's really not necessary. I can handle most any PA-supported gig I play with the Neo-Pak and 212, no problem. If I really NEED that 1000+ watts, then it follows that I really need those speakers, so I'd need to use at least 2, 3, or maybe 4 cabs. Even a light cab at 60 lbs each, that's anywhere from 120 to 240 lbs.
Your right
And a breakout box would basically be to split the signal, so you would be able to plug into more than a single other cab, ie, you could run from the first 3.5 (using the send) to the breakout box, then connect the outputs from the breakout box to the effects return of your second, third, fourth (etc) 3.5
Pretty much correct, except for the volume control part. Agedhorse said that the effects send is PRE master volume, POST anything else. So when you run into the second 3.5, or whatever slave amp you chose, you will be feeding it a constant level signal. You will still have to use the master volume of the power section of the slave amp to dictate the signal to that amp's connected cabs.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,041
- 5
- 220,978
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Correct. That way you can balance thingsw out between cabinets that have a different sensitivity, or maybe reduce a cabinet stacked closer to your ears.
By scaleable, I mean that each amp would power it's respective speaker(s), contributing to total system power.
Do NOT connect the amp's (speaker) outputs together under any circumstances. That may let out magic smoke unless the protection circuits get things shut down before any damage is done.
Well, turns out my Neo-Pak is getting upgraded with one of the newer power supplies that will run the head down to 2 ohms and 500 watts!!!! Using the head last week, I noticed that it was making a slight electrical noise from inside the head. Very slight. I heard it because I sat down beside it after playing. My ear was less than a couple feet from the head. It performed flawlessly other than that.
I emailed agedhorse here about the issue, and he comforted me. Then Jeff Genzler said that their tech Scott wanted to look at it for himself just to see what it could be. They're thinking it might be something vibrating from the switching PS, perhaps the shielding, but just weren't sure. At any rate, he said that if I'd send it to them so they could investigate, he'd replace the PS with one of the newer ones in return. They'll have the head for about 2 days and it'll come back bigger and better!
I'm glad to have this cause now this little guy can function as a reall backup to my 1200 pushing my NeoX 212/112 stack at 2.66 ohms if I need it to!
Thanks again Genz Benz (Jeff, Andy, Roger, Scott and Denise that I know of directly) for all providing first class support, and for just being great altogether. I spoke to Jeff on the phone a few days ago, and he was very friendly and glad to help. I'm so proud of you guys and my gear that it's hard to put it into words.
I emailed agedhorse here about the issue, and he comforted me. Then Jeff Genzler said that their tech Scott wanted to look at it for himself just to see what it could be. They're thinking it might be something vibrating from the switching PS, perhaps the shielding, but just weren't sure. At any rate, he said that if I'd send it to them so they could investigate, he'd replace the PS with one of the newer ones in return. They'll have the head for about 2 days and it'll come back bigger and better!
I'm glad to have this cause now this little guy can function as a reall backup to my 1200 pushing my NeoX 212/112 stack at 2.66 ohms if I need it to!
Thanks again Genz Benz (Jeff, Andy, Roger, Scott and Denise that I know of directly) for all providing first class support, and for just being great altogether. I spoke to Jeff on the phone a few days ago, and he was very friendly and glad to help. I'm so proud of you guys and my gear that it's hard to put it into words.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,041
- 5
- 220,978
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
Glad this worked out Jason. We all know personally what it's like to buy a new item and think there may be something possibly wrong with it. We try hard to treat the customer just like we would like to be treated ourselves. It's really a pretty simple concept (I think it is anyway).
There are so few failures on the SMPS section that anything that even seems to be a bit odd interests us, and we want to get as much field information on this topology as we can, failure or not. Scott and I put a lot of personal effort into making our first SMPS product as robust as possible. I blew the tips off a few screwdrivers during the torture-testing. Definately a lot of energy stored. I'll let you know what we find out.
A little background into how an SMPS works, for those of you interested in light weight amps...
In a normal linear power supply amp, the line voltage 50/60Hz AC is transformed to low voltage AC by a heavy linear transformer. It's heavy because at the low frequency 50/60Hz the magnetics must be very substantial to avoid saturation (a very bad thing). This low voltage AC is rectified to low voltage DC, filtered by large capacitors due to the 50/60Hz refresh rate, then it feeds the power amp.
In an SMPS power supply, the incoming line voltage AC is first rectified and filtered into high voltage DC, then chopped into a square wave at very high frequency (we use approx. 50kHz) and then transformed into low voltage DC. At 50kHz, the size and weight of the transformer is very small and lightweight. The low voltage AC is rectified (by a high frequency rectifier) and filtered (by high frequency caps, which can be much smaller due to the very high 50kHz refresh rate) and then feeds the amp.
The difference in equivalent transformer and capacitor weight is on the order of 20:1, yielding a substantial weight savings.
This is different than a class D amplifier, which can be built with both a linear or a SMPS power supply.
There are so few failures on the SMPS section that anything that even seems to be a bit odd interests us, and we want to get as much field information on this topology as we can, failure or not. Scott and I put a lot of personal effort into making our first SMPS product as robust as possible. I blew the tips off a few screwdrivers during the torture-testing. Definately a lot of energy stored. I'll let you know what we find out.
A little background into how an SMPS works, for those of you interested in light weight amps...
In a normal linear power supply amp, the line voltage 50/60Hz AC is transformed to low voltage AC by a heavy linear transformer. It's heavy because at the low frequency 50/60Hz the magnetics must be very substantial to avoid saturation (a very bad thing). This low voltage AC is rectified to low voltage DC, filtered by large capacitors due to the 50/60Hz refresh rate, then it feeds the power amp.
In an SMPS power supply, the incoming line voltage AC is first rectified and filtered into high voltage DC, then chopped into a square wave at very high frequency (we use approx. 50kHz) and then transformed into low voltage DC. At 50kHz, the size and weight of the transformer is very small and lightweight. The low voltage AC is rectified (by a high frequency rectifier) and filtered (by high frequency caps, which can be much smaller due to the very high 50kHz refresh rate) and then feeds the amp.
The difference in equivalent transformer and capacitor weight is on the order of 20:1, yielding a substantial weight savings.
This is different than a class D amplifier, which can be built with both a linear or a SMPS power supply.
I saw a new NeoPak in a local small shop in my area but with wife and kids in the car I didn't have time (guts) to sit down and try it. I do plan on going back soon. From what I have been told by a reputable bass guru who owns one, the NeoPak pre amp can lean more toward a crisper,hi fi edge. But some tube also can be dialed in via Gain for a bit of...well..tube tone . I don't believe it gets anywhere near the spongy tube tone of a Walkabout (but what non power tube head does) and the Walkabout doesn't get the quick S.S. tone of the Neo. Just how much tube tone can be dialed in is the question I'm looking forward to hearing/trying. I'll report back soon.
