Genz Benz Streamliner, Part 10

[agedhorse]

It's ok for the "peak" LED to flash, but I think that your expectation of your cabinet is perhaps unrealistic in that there is no way the cabinet is capable of 1000 watts "RMS" (your amp is capable of delivering 900 watts "RMS" without being well into power compression, which will limit the maximum volume (especially at lower frequencies). Now that I reread your post I see that the cabinet is 8 Ohm's, so wev are talking about 600 watts rather than 900 watts but my (educated) opinion is that at 600 watts you will still be well into power compression at the lower frequencies.

Note that knob position doesn't matter with regards to power output because the output level of your bass, along with playing style factor into the overall amplification. For example, if your pickups are 3dB hotter, your amp would try to deliver twice the output power with no change of knob position (though would be limited by the maximum rated power of the amp)

If you need more volume, I think you would be more successful looking for a more substantial cabinet, in general, one with higher efficiency/sensitivity, more cone area (provided this translates into a lower real world f3/f10) and higher real world power handling.

Real world power handling is something I have discussed many times on TB, noting that usually higher power handling comes at the expense of sensitivity, so there is somewhat of a tradeoff involved. You might search on this topic so that you gain some knowledge before your search.

 

[Jeff O'Connor]

It's ok for the "peak" LED to flash, but I think that your expectation of your cabinet is perhaps unrealistic in that there is no way the cabinet is capable of 1000 watts "RMS" (your amp is capable of delivering 900 watts "RMS" without being well into power compression, which will limit the maximum volume (especially at lower frequencies). Now that I reread your post I see that the cabinet is 8 Ohm's, so wev are talking about 600 watts rather than 900 watts but my (educated) opinion is that at 600 watts you will still be well into power compression at the lower frequencies.

Note that knob position doesn't matter with regards to power output because the output level of your bass, along with playing style factor into the overall amplification. For example, if your pickups are 3dB hotter, your amp would try to deliver twice the output power with no change of knob position (though would be limited by the maximum rated power of the amp)

If you need more volume, I think you would be more successful looking for a more substantial cabinet, in general, one with higher efficiency/sensitivity, more cone area (provided this translates into a lower real world f3/f10) and higher real world power handling.

Real world power handling is something I have discussed many times on TB, noting that usually higher power handling comes at the expense of sensitivity, so there is somewhat of a tradeoff involved. You might search on this topic so that you gain some knowledge before your search.

Perfect, Horse!
I was hoping you'd see this! I completely understand what you're saying, and am aware of these areas. But thanks for reiterating them to me!
May I ask for any cab suggestions off the top of your head? (Such a big world of cabs out there!) a couple 4x10 suggestions perhaps? Thanks again!

 

[LoveThatBass]

Again, cross-posting to avoid the inevitable problems... and to reinforce why I recommend a qualified, experienced tech to do the repair. There is no reason whatsoever to disassemble the amp at all (other than remove the tubes). There's the correct way to do the repair and there's the hard way to do the repair, an experienced tech will do it the easy way and charge accordingly (hopefully). It's not really a DIY type repair, but it can be done. You can also turn a perfectly good amplifier into a mess...

Ugh... nice attempt and a really nice presentation but a couple of really serious and potentially catastrophic errors here.

1. NEVER test an LED directly across a 9V battery, it's likely to damage the die. The current must be limited to less than 20mA to prevent damage, which might not show up for a while. If you look closely, you will see that the package has a flat side which aligns with the flat side of the silk screen.

2. Do not use solder braid on double sided boards with plated through holes. If you have a really light touch it might be ok, but the approved method is to remove the LEDs and clear the holes with a mechanical/vacuum solder sucker. Even though these are really rugged PCBs, it's easy to damage the pads and through hole plating with braid.

3. With the DeOxit, only a TINY TINY amount is necessary. More can lead to premature failure from washing lubricant to places it should not be, and attracting dirt down the road.

4. There is no reason whatsoever to remove the PCB from the chassis. The entire operation can be performed from the top in about 3 minutes from start to finish without any risk of damaging anything else.

5. There is ~350 volts present all over the inside of the chassis, be absolutely sure the HV (high voltage) bus is discharged... removing wiring/connectors can remove safety bleeders. Always measure before sticking your hands anywhere inside an amp like this.

To add to comment number 2. At work we have a heated iron type device with a hole in the tip that once you heat the solder pad with it you can press a button to release compressed air to blow the solder out of the hole. Of coarse you will need something underneath such as a piece of cardboard to catch the solder that is blown out. It worked really well for me. Never seen one before except at our Radio electronics shop. Wish I had one at home. As with any heated iron you need to get on and off as fast as possible so you do not lift a pad or trace from the board.

 

[agedhorse]

Perfect, Horse!
I was hoping you'd see this! I completely understand what you're saying, and am aware of these areas. But thanks for reiterating them to me!
May I ask for any cab suggestions off the top of your head? (Such a big world of cabs out there!) a couple 4x10 suggestions perhaps? Thanks again!

There are a lot of suitable cabinet choices out there. I would be looking for something with a good track record, with a half-space sensitivity of ~99dB/1W/1M or better, and with a size/weight that you can handle comfortable. Beyond that, it's up to personal taste. Other folks may have some more specific recommendations.

 

[agedhorse]

To add to comment number 2. At work we have a heated iron type device with a hole in the tip that once you heat the solder pad with it you can press a button to release compressed air to blow the solder out of the hole. Of coarse you will need something underneath such as a piece of cardboard to catch the solder that is blown out. It worked really well for me. Never seen one before except at our Radio electronics shop. Wish I had one at home. As with any heated iron you need to get on and off as fast as possible so you do not lift a pad or trace from the board.

It's really important that there's no pressure placed on the pad while heated because the PCB epoxy laminate softens a little and can deform which encourages delamination of the pad/trace and damage to the edge of annular ring of the through-hole plating.

 

[Mastermold]

There are a lot of suitable cabinet choices out there. I would be looking for something with a good track record, with a half-space sensitivity of ~99dB/1W/1M or better, and with a size/weight that you can handle comfortable. Beyond that, it's up to personal taste. Other folks may have some more specific recommendations.

I've used this amp with a bunch of different cabinets, Ampeg 810, various 410s, single 15s, 210s. Sounds great to my ear in every one. Just mind the volume in the smaller cabs.

 

[mwbonsall]

Perfect, Horse!
I was hoping you'd see this! I completely understand what you're saying, and am aware of these areas. But thanks for reiterating them to me!
May I ask for any cab suggestions off the top of your head? (Such a big world of cabs out there!) a couple 4x10 suggestions perhaps? Thanks again!

I see you have an Uber Quad listed in your signature. I have been using a Streamliner 900 with a pair of Quads since they were released a few years ago. One of my bands is very loud and I have never flickered the clip led and can get loud enough to bury the rest of the band. There is a lot of new stuff out there, but I love this amp and enclosures.

Mark

 

[LoveThatBass]

It's really important that there's no pressure placed on the pad while heated because the PCB epoxy laminate softens a little and can deform which encourages delamination of the pad/trace and damage to the edge of annular ring of the through-hole plating.

Thank you. Good to know

 

[Jeff O'Connor]

I see you have an Uber Quad listed in your signature. I have been using a Streamliner 900 with a pair of Quads since they were released a few years ago. One of my bands is very loud and I have never flickered the clip led and can get loud enough to bury the rest of the band. There is a lot of new stuff out there, but I love this amp and enclosures.

Mark

I'd Love one more of these!!! but one sometimes one is not enough...I DO love this cab though!!!!
I only have the ashdown to pair it up with...a cool combo, but a wee bit awkward!

 

[mwbonsall]

Still rockin' my Streamliner and Ubers after 6 years! Never an issue and great sound. But, I would like to try the new Genzler someday.

Thanks to Jeff, Andy and everyone else for a great product.


Mark

 

[SteveC]

Genz(ler) and Roscoe...great combo. I'd love to get a Magellan and 112 but there's nothing wrong with my little Shuttle 3.0-10T/Extension 110 right now. My gigs are DI/IEM so it's my home practice/small gig rig. Still...I tried a Magellan a few weeks ago with my Roscoe and it was amazing. I could get a GREAT deal on a 1288 that's in a local store here. That and a Magellan...awesome single cab rig.

 

[svtb15]

I have the 1288s too.. Great cabs.. I have a pair of Uber 115s that im selling now.. They are all just designed real well and last and last forever.. i want to get the new genzler 212 cab..

Still rockin' my Streamliner and Ubers after 6 years! Never an issue and great sound. But, I would like to try the new Genzler someday.

View attachment 1007961 View attachment 1007962

Thanks to Jeff, Andy and everyone else for a great product.


Mark

 

[Jeff O'Connor]

Ugh!! I have one 1288, but I need another!!!! Help me universe!!!

 

[mwbonsall]

Ugh!! I have one 1288, but I need another!!!! Help me universe!!!

SteveC found a used one, you could find out where it's at.

Mark

 

[SteveC]

SteveC found a used one, you could find out where it's at.

Mark

It's not used. It's new old stock at a local music store. They'd love to sell it to you.
701-746-7471 ask for Danny. Tell him Steve told you about it.

 

[SteveC]

I've been tempted to get it but it's a little too much (size and weight) for my needs these days. A single 12" would suit me just fine.

 

[Jones64]

Hey Streamies. I have a couple of questions. I sold my old reliable 600 and jumped on a great deal on a 900 as on occasions I do some bigger outdoor stuff and thought the extra headroom would be great. The 900 sounds similar but doesn't sound as good; less detail, less warm, less pillowy and kind scratchy. Is this typical or maybe times to replace tubes?

I also wondered what people who love their Streamliner think of the Magellan as they don't have a Gentler store out here in Colorado so I haven't had a chance to check one out yet. Can you get the streamliner tone out of the Magellan? Thanks.

 

[agedhorse]

The 600 and 900 should sound almost identical other than volume. It's possible that you have a defective tube.

 

[ValeriusCrow]

Hi, sorry if I ask question that probably was already mentioned - won't there be no harm to Streamliner if I will play w/ it using only headphones without cab? Recently on the Internet I read threads about "harm provided by running tube rig without cab", so..?
P.S.: Yep, I'm absolutely noob talking about electronics)

 

[Col Pruse]

Hi, sorry if I ask question that probably was already mentioned - won't there be no harm to Streamliner if I will play w/ it using only headphones without cab? Recently on the Internet I read threads about "harm provided by running tube rig without cab", so..?
P.S.: Yep, I'm absolutely noob talking about electronics)

You'll be fine with no cab connected.

From the manual:
HEADPHONE OUT – A 1/4” TRS jack is provided for connection to headphones for silent practice use. The speaker output is not automatically muted. The speaker outputs should be manually disconnected. It is never an issue for the Streamliner™ to be used without a speaker load connected. Do not connect this output to anything but headphones.