Genz-Benz Streamliner Part 5

[Vic]

god help me.... this has to the the most 'Alice through the looking glass' thread I've ever experienced

I give up.... again

Aww man, you're no fun.

I was hoping you'd +1 my post which included the Ken's full of crap comment... that woulda' been cool...

Kinda' like passing a bill with riders/earmarks, right? Ok, I won't go there...

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to my first tone test with the SL900. Should hopefully be fairly soon.

 

[svtb15]

Nice groove.... Tone is full and driving.. Very nice.
And i need to get a hat like yours... Stylin'

Well, I recorded some clips of the Streamliner 900 thru an Avatar TB-153 Bass cab at last nights gig. Bass is a 73' Jazz with Fender Custom Shop 60's overwound pups and D'Addario flats (chromes) that are 6 months old. It is recorded with a Flip video camera and all you are hearing is the head thru the cab as there is no PA support at this venue. I think the video very accurately reproduces how it actually sounded live.


Click Here -> YouTube - Genz Benz Streamliner 900+Avatar TB-153 The JJ's Band

 

[nostatic]

It's funny, I don't hear it that way, though I like the tone and the playing a lot. I still hear the "warm surrounding" more than the "cutting through" tone. And that's how I would describe the tone I'm getting myself - warm and surrounding the mix, rather than cutting through it.

Now for myself, the question is if I can (or will) come to love that warm thick supporting tone. I didn't get to do my A/B of Streamliner and Shuttle. If I show up at rehearsal with both the SL and a NeoPak (which, IMO, really does "cut"), I'm certain that my band will prefer the sound of the SL. I will probably do that soon.

The SL sound is, I think, a more "audience-friendly" sound.
The questions (for me) are
1) Do "I" like it; and
2) If it comes through better in service of the music, does it matter if "I" like it?
Or more accurately, does it matter if it doesn't accurately reflect the sound I think I want to hear?

On Sunday I switched back and forth between the S900 and Shuttle9.0. The previous night I just ran the S900, and Fri night with Steely Jam I ran the S900 as well. The live recordings from Saturday were pretty damn spectacular (posted earlier in the thread - first time this ensemble did percussion instead of full kit drummer). I have the tracks from Sunday, but I can't remember which amp I was playing on which tune now Here are two examples - first time we ever played these tunes

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'm pretty sure that those are both Shuttle 9.0 - I know it is the Rob Allen MB-2 fretless 4.

I think this one is S900

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Truth be told on Sunday night I was favoring the Shuttle 9.0 a bit over the S900. I think it was a combination of the material and the room. The reality is that for more "rock" stuff the S900 will be first call, especially if I'm going to mostly use the P-Bass. For the jazz thing either one works but I'm a little more used to the slightly thinner tone of the Shuttle 9.0 with the Rob Allen. But they both kill - more about my expectations than the "goodness" of the sound. The S900 has gotten rave reviews from bandmates and they usually are pretty hard to please.

 

[Vic]

Right on Vic! I was responding to the fact that you said "strongly favoring' the bridge pup...and then I had to get all semantic about ever so 'slightly' favoring the bridge pup...arg! I think for many J Bass players, the interplay and endless possibilities between the pup placements is most of the magic! Sorry for getting all semantic dood!

Oh, yeah, I see what you're saying... just the fact it's a similar result, but you're getting it another way. That's cool. In fact, I might try that myself. I don't necessarily set my pickup heights the same from the high to low strings anyway, so it should be interesting.

 

[KJung]

Aww man, you're no fun.

I was hoping you'd +1 my post which included the Ken's full of crap comment... that woulda' been cool...

Kinda' like passing a bill with riders/earmarks, right? Ok, I won't go there...

Anyway, I'm still looking forward to my first tone test with the SL900. Should hopefully be fairly soon.

Seriously though, that head with a 4ohm 15/6/1... killer for a fat, round supportive tone (probably pretty similar to double uber Quads in the Genz line). Really dig it. Perfect for the 60's J with flats thing to my ear. That is the ultimate Joe Osborne rig right there (or Bob Glaub!).

 

[Vic]

On Sunday I switched back and forth between the S900 and Shuttle9.0...

I think when I finally get a chance to try the SL900, I'm going to do something similar. I don't have a Shuttle to use for this, which would be more ideal, but I do have some other heads that are more nominally voiced, so I should still be able to do it and get at least decent subjective results.

 

[Vic]

Seriously though, that head with a 4ohm 15/6/1... killer for a fat, round supportive tone. Really dig it. Perfect for the 60's J with flats thing to my ear. That is the ultimate Joe Osborne rig right there (of Bob Glaub!).

On the other hand, I already have one ash/maple P5 and more or less have another kinda' on the way, so...

 

[faulknersj]

Seriously though, that head with a 4ohm 15/6/1... killer for a fat, round supportive tone. Really dig it. Perfect for the 60's J with flats thing to my ear. That is the ultimate Joe Osborne rig right there (of Bob Glaub!).

Agreed KJung! This rig kills for the old school vibe with my 73' J Bass and flats. That said, I can gett killing rock tones out of this rig with my Sterling, or Stingray, or Fender CS Jazz with rounds too!

 

[KJung]

Agreed KJung! This rig kills for the old school vibe with my 73' J Bass and flats. That said, I can gett killing rock tones out of this rig with my Sterling, or Stingray, or Fender CS Jazz with rounds too!

+1 I love the 'meat' this head puts on the low end bones of any bass.... really fat, but always round versus boomy, and with that unique 'tube' top end (a least unique for a hybrid).

While my ash/maple P is a bit brighter and grindier in the upper mids (especially with the AE410), the low end on your clip is the thing with this head.... big but not boomy.... IMO again, all the good of the DB750 down there... none of the bad. That is what has me so giddy about this head.

 

[KJung]

FYI, Greg at RocketMusic said the Streamliner bags have shipped to him (I think yesterday), so they are now available. Excellent! I assume I will see mine sometime next week.

 

[nostatic]

The SL sound is, I think, a more "audience-friendly" sound.
The questions (for me) are
1) Do "I" like it; and
2) If it comes through better in service of the music, does it matter if "I" like it?
Or more accurately, does it matter if it doesn't accurately reflect the sound I think I want to hear?

This is why I try to record every gig that I do. While not perfect, it gives me some perspective into what the audience is hearing as opposed to what I'm hearing on-stage. I've lost track of the times I've played something I thought was cool at the time only to hear the recording and go Luckily I've had the opposite experience as well

I also tend to play at too low of a volume. I'm usually trying to keep stage volume down so I don't want to be pushing the envelope. I've been turning up lately though, mostly on requests from the band. Part of it is due to the tone I think - the S900 has pushed more towards supportive over cutting and I think you need a bit more oomph to have that work right. Or the drugs I've given everyone are working...

Another data point is the crowd. If they are dancing, I figure something is going right. Bass can be a make-or-break factor in whether the audience shakes it. At Friday's Steely Jam show (S900 and P-bass in full force) they were dancing at both ends of the club. Always a good sign...

 

[funkyjudge]

Well, I recorded some clips of the Streamliner 900 thru an Avatar TB-153 Bass cab at last nights gig. Bass is a 73' Jazz with Fender Custom Shop 60's overwound pups and D'Addario flats (chromes) that are 6 months old. It is recorded with a Flip video camera and all you are hearing is the head thru the cab as there is no PA support at this venue. I think the video very accurately reproduces how it actually sounded live.


Click Here -> YouTube - Genz Benz Streamliner 900+Avatar TB-153 The JJ's Band

VERY TASTY, Faulkner .... both bassist AND band!!!

 

[bassclef04]

I have the SL600 paired up with the new Schroeder 212PL, excellent matchup so far.

Anybody here planning on getting a Streamliner 600?
If so, what cab would you be matching it with?

S

 

[Saluki]

I think when I finally get a chance to try the SL900, I'm going to do something similar. I don't have a Shuttle to use for this, which would be more ideal, but I do have some other heads that are more nominally voiced, so I should still be able to do it and get at least decent subjective results.

Come over and check mine out tonight or tomorrow. Maybe I can head over your way tomorrow night.

 

[nostatic]

VERY TASTY, Faulkner .... both bassist AND band!!!

+1 I think the flats combine well with the J and the S900.

 

[Eublet]

I've lost track of the times I've played something I thought was cool at the time only to hear the recording and go

LOL! Been there, done that!

 

[vision]

Man, I so totally understand this. I prefer that "in the pocket" kind of tone when I'm listening, hands down. When I play, for some reason I want to hear more detail, as if I were playing solo.

I agree 100%...I still struggle with this. While I'm actually playing, I want to hear every single detailed nuance - all the zing of new stainless steel roundwounds, the finger noise, everything. I've even noticed that I play better on days when I can hear myself like that. But when I'm listening back to recordings, or listening to other players, I GREATLY prefer a solid warm round tone.

Back in the day when I was doing alot of studio work (both playing and engineering/mixing) I was much more in touch with always wanting to hear the best overall mix, even when I was playing live. I even went through a period where I didn't change my strings for around three years. All I cared about was that fat round supportive tone which just worked in the mix, and all of the top end detail that I generally love wasn't needed.

 

[kesslari]

On Sunday I switched back and forth between the S900 and Shuttle9.0. The previous night I just ran the S900, and Fri night with Steely Jam I ran the S900 as well. The live recordings from Saturday were pretty damn spectacular (posted earlier in the thread - first time this ensemble did percussion instead of full kit drummer). I have the tracks from Sunday, but I can't remember which amp I was playing on which tune now Here are two examples - first time we ever played these tunes

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]
[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

I'm pretty sure that those are both Shuttle 9.0 - I know it is the Rob Allen MB-2 fretless 4.

I think this one is S900

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

Truth be told on Sunday night I was favoring the Shuttle 9.0 a bit over the S900. I think it was a combination of the material and the room. The reality is that for more "rock" stuff the S900 will be first call, especially if I'm going to mostly use the P-Bass. For the jazz thing either one works but I'm a little more used to the slightly thinner tone of the Shuttle 9.0 with the Rob Allen. But they both kill - more about my expectations than the "goodness" of the sound. The S900 has gotten rave reviews from bandmates and they usually are pretty hard to please.

Which sort of emphasizes my point - both heads sound very good, and both will sound great to an audience. And that splitting hairs about it may be counterproductive for me. I have the SL900, and should just work with it and shut up for a while.

 

[Eublet]

As for Ken and his J bass comments, I don't think he's every said much more than he prefers his F500 for his jazz. I think others have made the comment about mids being a bit absent on the SL900, and I was probably one of them at the time. I've since recanted for the most part, while readily admitting that the SL900 will never have the zing and upper-mid attack of something like the Shuttle or F1.

 

[Eublet]

I agree 100%...I still struggle with this. While I'm actually playing, I want to hear every single detailed nuance - all the zing of new stainless steel roundwounds, the finger noise, everything. I've even noticed that I play better on days when I can hear myself like that. But when I'm listening back to recordings, or listening to other players, I GREATLY prefer a solid warm round tone.

Back in the day when I was doing alot of studio work (both playing and engineering/mixing) I was much more in touch with always wanting to hear the best overall mix, even when I was playing live. I even went through a period where I didn't change my strings for around three years. All I cared about was that fat round supportive tone which just worked in the mix, and all of the top end detail that I generally love wasn't needed.

I was happier back in the days you are mentioning. Things just seemed "easier". Maybe it's nostalgia, or just plain ignorance from not paying as much attention back then. I don't know.

I will say that you should definitely try elevating your cab a bit. I hope I don't sound like a broken record on this, as it's not my intent. Getting the height right is important, so simply throwing it on a chair or table once and trying it might not give you the results you are after. Also, I don't think having a tall rig (like dual 210's stacked vertically) is quite the same. I've run several different vertical rigs, but I think the end result is better with having a larger cab that is elevated at just the right point. There's something magical somewhere between 12 and 20 inches for me, depending on the cab and the head, where you get the perfect balance of bass, mids and treble for a band mix.

The question for me over whether or not to elevate a cab is simple. Kneel down in front of it while playing, about 2 or 3 feet away. If it sounds good there, but doesn't sound as good when you stand up, raise that cab up. Tiltback designs also don't work for me. WAY too thin, unless it's a very low volume gig.