Genz Benz Streamliner Tube Rolling

[BassBeginer64]

opps meant quiet - dang spellcheck

 

[Dadagoboi]

Return of the Streamliner?

 

[letsgethandsome]

Return of the Streamliner?

Def see the similarity and I love the Streamliner but Jeff G himself said this is nothing like the Streamliner.

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Def see the similarity and I love the Streamliner but Jeff G himself said this is nothing like the Streamliner.

I think Streamliner users would find the KINETIX 800, more "broad" tonally, with a more dynamic and vibrant feel. When testing this new amp against the Streamliner, you definetly knew when the switcher moved from one amp to the next, all settings equal.

Internally, the circuitry is nothing like each other, except for a 3 tube platform. Obviously they both use competely different Class D power modules, as well.

As when we first developed the Magellan 800 years ago, we looked back at our heritage with Shuttle, GBE and Streamliner designs ---- and when in a completely different direction for that "NEXT GENERATION" of amplifier platform. Same with the Kinetix.

I must give so much credit to Scott Andres, our engineer, for taking our vision and using his imagination and determination in developing this design and working through all that was presented to us along the way in developing this model.

 

[Jimmy Stump]

I still use my Streamliner 900 for every show. Love that amp and hope it lives forever. If it doesn't, is this the next best thing even though they are not the same?

 

[BassBeginer64]

Awww man I bought a GK Fusion S , wish I knew this was out then..........But I still have my Favorites Add some dang Bumper's on the new heads ended up buying some on Flea bay

 

[Mastermold]

I still use my Streamliner 900 for every show. Love that amp and hope it lives forever. If it doesn't, is this the next best thing even though they are not the same?

Ever play it through a GB Uber 410?

 

[FronTowardEnemy]

I still use my Streamliner 900 for every show. Love that amp and hope it lives forever. If it doesn't, is this the next best thing even though they are not the same?

Ever play it through a GB Uber 410?

 

[blowinblue]

It's been a long time since I experimented with different tubes in this wonderful amp. Pretty sure the stock tubes went back in to their original locations. Purchased new in 2011.

M. M.

 

[groovaholic]

I picked up a used Streamliner 900 a couple weeks ago and have been getting used to the amp, with increasing levels of success.

The interaction of the EQ and gain controls has been a learning curve - and I had some dirty effects loops jacks that gave me odd issues for a bit.

My amp (Mfg date 6/28/2011) still had the original tube complement when I got it - they all worked, but 1 or 2 of the tubes were noisy.

Yesterday, I installed a JJ 5751 in V1, and a JJ ECC83MG (mid-gain) in V2.
It turned out that the original Ruby Tube from V3 was the noisy one, so I swapped the original V1 ECC83 to V3.
When that was a bit too wooly sounding, I moved the Ruby 12AX7A that was originally in V2 into V3 and "voila!"

The amp still has tons of booty, but it's leaner and more precise sounding, and it transitions into overdrive more gradually.

This amp gives me a completely different tonality and feel than my GK Legacy; the variety suits my "moody" ears and is making me enjoy both amps more...

 

[SeayBass]

I like that JJ MG, too ! i put the 12ax7-MG in the V3 on mine earlier this year.
V1 jan Phillips 5751
V2 jan ge 12at7
V3 JJ 12ax7-MG

 

[groovaholic]

Yesterday, I installed a JJ 5751 in V1, and a JJ ECC83MG (mid-gain) in V2.
It turned out that the original Ruby Tube from V3 was the noisy one, so I swapped the original V1 ECC83 to V3.

After replacing V1 and V2, I was concerned about the age of the tube in V3, so I used a GC coupon and got a new Tung Sol 12AX7A.
That was a mistake.
Not surprisingly, it seems like GC sources their tubes by price, not quality.

Within a few weeks, the "new" tube got very noisy - that waterfall/wind-in-the-trees noise.
Put the 12 year old JJ tube back in and the amp is quiet again.

Lesson learned!

Anyone had the chance to demo the Genzler Kinetix against the Genz Streamliner?

I know Jeff said:

I think Streamliner users would find the KINETIX 800, more "broad" tonally, with a more dynamic and vibrant feel.

But I'm looking for the opinions of other players like me (i.e. people who have already spent too much on gear).

 

[agedhorse]

I very rarely find a bad factory tube in Streamliners that come in for service. They should last 20+ years without issues, maybe 30 years.

That said, I do see issues where the owner replaced the tubes or rolled tubes. The original tubes were selected for low microphonics, low noise, high reliability and extended operational life.

This is one reason why I usually suggest that the better course of action or to leave a perfectly well functioning amp alone.

 

[SeayBass]

I haven't played the Kinetix yet, but i have done a bit of research. I swapped a few emails with Jeff Genzler, and checked out a few vids.
The Kinetix is very similar in size, shape, layout and features. The power amp section is very similar, ubiquitous Class D, more modern by 10+ years.

The difference between the two is voicing and preamp. You probably already know all of this. Sorry it's redundant ...
The Kinetix is significantly more tweakable from the 5 EQ knobs. The Kinetix offers a few low Q pre-sets that would be something like the huge Streamliner to more contained lows.
To my ear what this really means is that the mids are presented differently. There's more presence and control over the meat in the middle of your tone.

But they're different enough circuits that they won't overlap much. We'll just have to buy one of each

I have spent years finding the right tube combination to get me the sound I want on the streamliner. I don't disagree with agedhorse that leaving it alone is a good choice. But I enjoy the process, and on this particular amp the tubes themselves have a big impact on the final product.
I could probably accomplish the same tonal goals without messing with the tubes on the Kinetix thanks to it's EQ section.

I've always loved the streamliner, and eventually figured out that compressing my signal before I send it through the streamliner works wonders to tighten up the bottom. Go figure! And if I need more EQ, adding that in via effects loop works wonders, as well. This is why I don't feel like I need to buy the Kinetix right away.
I suspect a Genzler re/Q pedal in the FX loop of the Streamliner would probably get you very close to the Kinetix.

While I'm typing... I did a lot of tube listening last month. I bought and listened to a few JJ tubes, as well. I've continued

My latest selection of tubes is the following:
I like all of these in the V1 spot
JAN 5751 (ge or phillips), JJ 5751, JJ ECC803S (long plate version), JJ 12ax7-mg

V1 JJ ECC803S (worth the upcharge, IMO)
V2 sovtek
V3 China 12ax7-B

 

[Wasnex]

Within a few weeks, the "new" tube got very noisy - that waterfall/wind-in-the-trees noise.
Put the 12 year old JJ tube back in and the amp is quiet again.

New tubes have a high infant mortality rate, so this is not particularly surprising. I have had the same result with JJs.

AFAIK tube makers offer different tiers of QC, and I doubt GC is buying the highest quality tubes.

AFAIK Genz Benz bought upper tier quality and also had an in-house process for further testing and grading. Rejects were returned to the maker, and likely resold at a lower quality tier.

 

[groovaholic]

My latest selection of tubes is the following:
I like all of these in the V1 spot
JAN 5751 (ge or phillips), JJ 5751, JJ ECC803S (long plate version), JJ 12ax7-mg

Where I landed was a JJ 5751 in V1, JJ 12AX7MG in V2, and the original JJ 12AX7A from V1 in V3.

The two original Ruby 12AX7A were slightly degraded (one got a bit noisy, the other was a bit microphonic).
Their degradation is why I thought I should replace the original JJ V1 tube, but it's still going strong & quiet.

I had read earlier in this thread that the JJ tubes sold by EuroTubes have better QC than other sources, so that's where I got the 5751 and 12AX7A-MG.

 

[BassBeginer64]

Buying tubes have really became a crap shoot, many sellers are starting to use the Maxi Matcher power and pre amp testers, those give a ok reading for gain and decibel readings, but lately most of the tubes are noisy and very few that I bought are in the -80 or higher decibel range, maybe it's my ears but anything in the - 70 DB I hear that hiss white noise hell, also I am finding the high dollar tubes I been purchasing have been prone to microphonics, I must have returned over 6 genalex gold lion gold pins tubes due to one triode being microphonic, I will say most of the JJ's tubes I own have been quiet with good gain , I have had less issues with JJ's than others.
just my .02 worth............

 

[Mastermold]

I very rarely find a bad factory tube in Streamliners that come in for service. They should last 20+ years without issues, maybe 30 years.

That said, I do see issues where the owner replaced the tubes or rolled tubes. The original tubes were selected for low microphonics, low noise, high reliability and extended operational life.

This is one reason why I usually suggest that the better course of action or to leave a perfectly well functioning amp alone.

Mine is going still going strong on the original tubes.

 

[hennessybass]

Within a few weeks, the "new" tube got very noisy - that waterfall/wind-in-the-trees noise.

Is that "wind-in-the-trees" noise a preamp tube issue???

ZERO problems with my Streamliner, but I have another amp with that kind of noise.
Maybe just a preamp tube.

 

[agedhorse]

Is that "wind-in-the-trees" noise a preamp tube issue???

ZERO problems with my Streamliner, but I have another amp with that kind of noise.
Maybe just a preamp tube.

Possibly, but there are other causes as well.