Genz-Benz vs Genzler

[AB Nate]

Just thought I would post a few comments as it relates to GENZLER AMPLIFICATION. Certainly we remain extremely proud of our past heritage with GB, but as we looked forward, G-AMPS allowed us to start with a clean slate. We can't change who we are at the core so many players have commented that the GENZLER products feel "familiar", someone said "like stumbling across an old friend again".
BUT, we had the chance to take a look at what we wanted to design and then come at it in a completely new and different way. The Bass Array cab are among the obvious designs we came at with a radically new and innovative approach to full range speaker system design. And I must say that the inquisitive nature of the bass player community has really latched on to what these cabs are all about. That is one thing I've always admired about our community AND this TB platform.

With the Magellan amp designs, the differences might be a little more subtle but still dramatic. Having a clean slate to start with, we took a look at a lot of new ways of doing what we wanted to do. In many cases that also involved component selection as well as circuit designs.

With comments made here in this thread, one major component change we made was to use pots with electro-static plastic wipers, (still metal shafts) but they do not rely on the usual carbon wipers ---- which are susceptible to issues that can become "scratchy". NOT SO with our current pots. And their longevity and feel are exceptional. Also, we use gold-plated jacks that are much less susceptible to contamination that might cause intermittent contact, and many other higher grade components where chosen.
And what we could do now with the new 700ASC module, one that was designed by ICEpower with tremendous input from amp designers that used their previous modules ---- which we were. This "carnal knowledge" has given us an extremely stable platform for an incredibly powerful and reliable amp.
With many of our circuit design decisions we wanted to make sure our amplifier was extremely musical and intuitive, yet versatile. We feel our approach using the CLEAN and DRIVE channels, along with the dual Contour Circuit and other features accomplishes this design requirement.

I hope this background provides some answers to the questions here as players continue to discover and ask questions about the new GENZLER AMPLIFICATION gear.

Hi Jeff,
Thanks for the insight on this thread. I wouldn't expect you to release any secrets here of upcoming products so rather then ask and hope ill just put this out there.
If there were to be a Magellan with a tube pre id be most excited about that.

Also, with the way I see a lot of changes in gear going I would be curious to see on the market:
-A pre(tubes!! ) with all the wonderful features that some of these Pedals seem to have these days. Cab sim,DI,phones
but mainly and more importantly to accompany this....

-Powered full range cabs

I see people (and have considered it myself) moving towards things like the Fractal and Kemper and then utilizing FR powered cabs. This seems like a great option. A couple of powered BA410s.........OMG!

Well there is my wish list for Christmas!

Just a couple of thoughts from a big GB fan.

Merry Christmas all

 

[berman3313]

Acouoke of powered BA410s should read “cofeve”. -Editors note

 

[JW56789]

Jeff, could / would you posit an opinion or observation about an experience you lived through:

Why do these larger entitites buy smaller companies (Kaman buying GB, Fender with SWR, and Henry's many Gibson acquisitions), and then only marginally advance them and then fold them into history never to be seen again. I understand 'buying out your competition' and no doubt some of the intellectual property is folded into newer products under their own brand name, but it seems like a might expensive way to do either. Your thoughts?

 

[AB Nate]

Acouoke of powered BA410s should read “cofeve”. -Editors note

Im not sure what just happened here.... did I just get a speeding ticket from the Spellcheck police?

 

[berman3313]

Why do these larger entitites buy smaller companies (Kaman buying GB, Fender with SWR, and Henry's many Gibson acquisitions), and then only marginally advance them and then fold them into history never to be seen again.

This is what they learned in Business School. It happens in every (American) industry - airlines - auto - grocery chains - retail - etc.

 

[Jim C]

I am/was a tube freak.
OTOH, there are a lot of amps that have a tube front end that does not sound like a tradional tube sound.
My barometer are amps like a SVT, V4B, old Fenders, etc. which sound like vaccum tubes from just the preamp out.
I have had years of experience with the SWR SM400, Shuttle 9.2, and to a lesser degree MBF800.
The tube front end was not that big a deal for me with these amps.
Ashdown SBM 500 with a single 12AX7 does sound more like a tradtional tube amp to me (assuming not driven into distortion)
OTOH, some new amps without tubes, can sound very tubey, presumably due to newer components and amp designs.
.02

 

[Sav'nBass]

The Magellan does everything the Streamliner did and more. The Magellan is a mix of the Shuttlemax and Streamliner with more heft to the sound.

I agree..

My gas for a different head stopped when I got my Shuttlemax 12.2, The ability to use two 4 ohm cabs, sealed the deal for me, and the endless tone choices have been wonderful. If a Genzler ever dropped in to my lap for cheap, I would of course give it a go, but, the 12.2 is here to stay for my current gig situation.

I really liked my Max heads.. but for me it was overkill.. I thought I needed all that tonal control .. but I really didn't but they are fantastic heads.. The two channel thing is great...

 

[KJMO]

So the mg800 has the 700asc, but what does the mg350 have? Just curious.

 

[Wicked G]

I am/was a tube freak.
OTOH, there are a lot of amps that have a tube front end that does not sound like a tradional tube sound.
My barometer are amps like a SVT, V4B, old Fenders, etc. which sound like vaccum tubes from just the preamp out.
I have had years of experience with the SWR SM400, Shuttle 9.2, and to a lesser degree MBF800.
The tube front end was not that big a deal for me with these amps.
Ashdown SBM 500 with a single 12AX7 does sound more like a tradtional tube amp to me (assuming not driven into distortion)
OTOH, some new amps without tubes, can sound very tubey, presumably due to newer components and amp designs.
.02

I agree that the tubes on the Shuttle and MBF800 doesn't really make them sound like traditional tube amps, but the 6 stage 3 tube preamp in the Streamliner is a whole different story. That amp is an incredible work of art.

The compression and feel of that amp is really natural and when the 3DPM kicks in, the kick becomes quite addicting. Makes me want to crank that amp all the time which is not really possible for all shows. Hmm, maybe I should try just 1 UBER cab with that amp at the next show and see how that works out.

 

[Jim C]

I agree that the tubes on the Shuttle and MBF800 doesn't really make them sound like traditional tube amps, but the 6 stage 3 tube preamp in the Streamliner is a whole different story. That amp is an incredible work of art.

I had been curious about the Streemliner but never had a chance to try one.
I had read that it was a very dark sounding head compared to something like an SVT.
Do you find that to be true?

Some have said that it is "pillowy" which I assume means that the attack is slow and the notes bloom.
Do you agree with this compared to an SVT?

 

[BadExample]

I agree that the tubes on the Shuttle and MBF800 doesn't really make them sound like traditional tube amps, but the 6 stage 3 tube preamp in the Streamliner is a whole different story. That amp is an incredible work of art.

The compression and feel of that amp is really natural and when the 3DPM kicks in, the kick becomes quite addicting. Makes me want to crank that amp all the time which is not really possible for all shows. Hmm, maybe I should try just 1 UBER cab with that amp at the next show and see how that works out.

Could always try: Ran my Streamliner at 16 ohms tonight -- a revelation

Still about 3db louder than just one cab though.

 

[Wicked G]

I had been curious about the Streemliner but never had a chance to try one.
I had read that it was a very dark sounding head compared to something like an SVT.
Do you find that to be true?

Some have said that it is "pillowy" which I assume means that the attack is slow and the notes bloom.
Do you agree with this compared to an SVT?

That amp does have a ridiculous amount of low end if you try to run the EQ at 12:00. After reading many threads I tried the PO SVT setting and that sounds phenomenal to me.

Gain at 2:00ish
Volume at 2:00ish
Bass at 9:00
Mid at 3:00
Mid Selector at 600 for beautiful grind and bark or 220 for solid note definition and thump.
Treble at 12:00
Master to taste.

Yes the notes do bloom and you can feel like you are surrounded in bass. However I do find that with the setting I mention above it can sound more solid on mids at 220 and when the 3DPM kicks in, so does the additional magic. I've had the 3DPM kick in on a gig with 2 TC Electronic RS210 cabs and I swear it felt like I had an 810 behind me. drool

Edit: I should also add that the Gain and Volume controls act like additional tone controls to me. Just playing with those 2 knobs can really change the tone and character of that amp.

 

[Jim C]

Nice review

 

[Jeff Genzler]

Jeff, could / would you posit an opinion or observation about an experience you lived through:

Why do these larger entitites buy smaller companies (Kaman buying GB, Fender with SWR, and Henry's many Gibson acquisitions), and then only marginally advance them and then fold them into history never to be seen again. I understand 'buying out your competition' and no doubt some of the intellectual property is folded into newer products under their own brand name, but it seems like a might expensive way to do either. Your thoughts?

@J Wilson, I don't want to ignore your post but there is not much I would be comfortable in expressing. But I would like to clarify that GB was purchased by KMC Music long before Fender came into the picture. Fender did purchase KMC Music and Genz Benz came along with that package. This was around the time we launched the Streamliner amps and everyone was very happy as things went along.
KMC was an exceptional steward of the GENZ BENZ brand over the years and we were allowed to really "be ourselves" to create and innovate. A lot of thanks needs to go to the management there during this time period.
After the Fender purchase of KMC we were still on our own for a good while. In large corporations there are many missions and the balance of those missions and resources required cause for a lot of difficult decisions that need to be made. I think what happened to SWR and GB was a part of that.
I certainly don't think there was any conscious effort to buy off the competition as mentioned in many threads on this subject. Behind the scenes there were a lot of interesting discussions about what the future could be but somewhere along the way decisions were made and the soldiers need to go out and soldier on. All of this was a great experience in life and has certainly laid the ground work for what we offer as GENZLER AMPLIFICATION.
And in my mind it is the NEXT GENERATION.
And it CONTINUES.....

I hope this sheds a little "respectful" light for the TB community on this subject.

 

[JW56789]

I certainly understand there's a lot of water under that bridge, Jeff, and I appreciate your answering within the margins of comfort. Kaman Music was a much different organization in those days when the Kaman family was involved; it's hard to imagine Ovation has no American production any more, but time and tastes move on . . . . . . I can easily envision how GB fit into that company, and how years later it was a completely different fit inside FMIC.

Thanks Again, and wishing you great success (as if that hasn't already started !) in your new venture. The line array arrangement of the tweeters is a very interesting new take on things, and I hear nothing but great things about the heads.

All the Best to You and Yours in this Holiday Season !

 

[BadExample]

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I'm personally happy it all survives.

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[Jeff K]

I've owned two Shuttle 9.0's. Liked the first one so much I bought a used one as a backup. Still own one of them. Sold the other to offset some of the cost of a new Magellan 800. Honestly, I really like both of them.

Several months ago, I took the Magellan 800 over to our drummer's house where we practice. The drummer and guitarist (we're a trio) really like the Magellan. I do too, but I also still like the Shuttle 9.0 a lot. I also have a Gallien-Krueger MB500 that I like a lot. All 3 are different flavors of "sweet" IMO...

 

[pjbassist]

@Jeff K good to know. After I bought my 1st Shuttle 9.0 recently, I too bought a 2nd as a backup...still love/have them both. But I am quite curious about the Magellan 800.

 

[agedhorse]

Let me enthusiastically second Jeff's comments.

Genz Benz was a unique and wonderful company, great ideas, great people and everybody really cared about what they were doing. KMC was also an excellent company that shared many of the same attributes so naturally it was a good fit. I couldn't have asked for a better creative experience over the ~20 years of designing products with Jeff, Scott and Roger. Looking back, we successfully introduced a number of firsts in bass amplification, a number of significant accomplishments as well as staying the course as a smaller US based manufacturer. Even though we are all doing different things within this industry, we remain close friends. This is really what the core of Genz Benz was all about, relationships. Very old school in a good way.

 

[Jeff K]

@Jeff K good to know. After I bought my 1st Shuttle 9.0 recently, I too bought a 2nd as a backup...still love/have them both. But I am quite curious about the Magellan 800.

To be totally honest, when I bought the Magellan 800, I was debating between it and the Mesa. I had no doubt in my mind that both would be great. I bought the Magellan because I got a better deal on it (new) than I could find on a new Mesa. I felt confident in the Mesa gear because of their reputation, and because of past dealings I've had with Andy (agedhorse). The Magellan is killer, and I'm very pleased with it.

I'm a Genz-Benz fan as well. Like I've said, I had 2 Shuttle 9.0's (still have one); I have an Uber 410. I even have a Contour 500 115 Combo and and a matching 115 to go with it. I love IT also!!