Genz Streamliner 600/900 tone control primer

[woolysock]

Anyone else tried cutting mids at 220 rather than boosting at 600 or 2.5K?
This afternoon I found setting bass at 10 o'clock, 220 mids at 10 o'clock and treble at 12 noon really cleaned up the tone.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Anyone else tried cutting mids at 220 rather than boosting at 600 or 2.5K?
This afternoon I found setting bass at 10 o'clock, 220 mids at 10 o'clock and treble at 12 noon really cleaned up the tone.

Yep, it's been reported before.

Guys looking for a compressed or overdriven tone don't like it because you give up so much gain. But for clean tones, it's one of the ways to squeeze a "quicker", more Shuttle-like tone out of the Streamliner.

 

[Joe Smithberger]

I would be curious to see plots with the Bass and Treble all the way down (maybe just cracked open at 7:00-8:00) and the mids at noon. I have been playing around a bit with this kind of setting and getting a great sound with my Jazz. There is so much gain on tap (especially with the gain button in) that I don't see any issues with getting loud enough in any of my situations.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I would be curious to see plots with the Bass and Treble all the way down (maybe just cracked open at 7:00-8:00) and the mids at noon. I have been playing around a bit with this kind of setting and getting a great sound with my Jazz.

I have 'em. Will try and post them for you tomorrow afternoon. Basically, it's just a broad, smoothly-rounded hump in the low through upper mids.

 

[LarryR]

Anyone else tried cutting mids at 220 rather than boosting at 600 or 2.5K?
This afternoon I found setting bass at 10 o'clock, 220 mids at 10 o'clock and treble at 12 noon really cleaned up the tone.

Last night I had a jazz gig. Realbook kinda thing: sax, guitar, drums, bass. Room was 30'x30', all hard surfaces. Potential echo chamber. Fender P>STM-900>Bergantino EX112. Started w/flat settings. Mushy. Increased treble. Increased 600k setting. Took my mute off the bass. Still mushy. By the 3rd song I cut 200k to 9 o'clock and increased the master volume for make-up gain. That did it! I still had fat, but, tight/controlled bass that was clean within the context of the group AND room.

OT: my initial thoughts on the Streamliner with original (non-ER) Bergantino HT112/EX112 was not favorable. I'm ok with them now. Those teenie Berg cubes can take the wattage. It's just a matter of proper sculpting.....imho

 

[suraci]

Deciding on right combo
Streamliner and max 9.2 are heavy contenders for my new sIngle 12 GB neo 12
I returner the shuttle 12 for the larger neo 12

Comoarative Comments have already been made but as time passes peoples opinions change.
So any comments about heads for the neo 12 for this jazz, fusion , pop, player are always welcome.

 

[sunbeast]

Deciding on right combo
Streamliner and max 9.2 are heavy contenders for my new sIngle 12 GB neo 12
I returner the shuttle 12 for the larger neo 12

Comoarative Comments have already been made but as time passes peoples opinions change.
So any comments about heads for the neo 12 for this jazz, fusion , pop, player are always welcome.

ShuttleMax all the way IMO- with that broad a range of styles I think you will feel very limited by the strong inherent voicing of the Streamliner.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

I tried a Max against the Streamliner last week in Toronto. I felt like it put a bit of a blanket over the highs, compared the sweet, airy top end of the Streamliner. The Max doesn't have the low end cushion of the SL, either. But the Shuttle Max is a very full-featured and flexible head.

I personally prefer the combination of my SL900 and an external EQ, but that's more expensive, and a lot of people don't want the complication of an extra pedal or rack device.

 

[suraci]

Steve. I am worried about degeneratIng the "pure" GB with an external eq
Can u speak to that. Because to me streamliner just needs more eq to approach the versatility of max 9

 

[steve_rolfeca]

Steve. I am worried about degeneratIng the "pure" GB with an external eq
Can u speak to that.

Just don't use a bad-sounding EQ. I first tested my idea with an ancient, cheap Guyatone single-band pedal, and there definitely was some tone suck. So nix on old or nasty gear, like the Boss EQ pedals, etc.

No probs with an Empress ParaEQ in front of the amp, though. It's fine in the effects loop, too, as long as you don't lean on the gain too hard. It's pretty transparent, no loss of dynamic feel or "tubeyness"...

The only problem with an EQ in the effects loop, is if you plan on hitting the gain boost and the Streamliner's built-in overdrive, and compensating by turning down the Master volume. That would result in very high levels passing through the loop, on the order of +4dB or so. In that case, your EQ would need to be a good rack mount unit, with enough headroom to handle those levels.

Not a problem for me, as I always have the gain button out.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

...Because to me streamliner just needs more eq to approach the versatility of max 9

A word to the wise on versatility: It depends on how you define it.

I tend to dial up a basic tone that suits the gig, and only make minor changes after that on the amp. I get most of my on-the-fly tonal variation via pickup switching and varying my right-hand attack. If you're like me, and thinking in terms of a single channel with absolutely surgical EQ, then the SL900 with an outboard EQ can actually be more flexible than the MaX. You've still got the Streamliner's very musical tone controls, plus the flexibility of true parametric EQ, and possibly separate HPF and LPF sections as well. In comparison, the set Q of the Max's semi-parametric EQ sections is a bit limiting.

BUT: if you're in something like a top 40 cover band, where you need a lot of quick tone changes on the fly, foot-switchable presets for doubling, slap vs finger-style or whatever, then the wider tonal range of the Max, plus the dual preamps and the variable Contour controls, AND the pretty comprehensive included floor switchboard, might be more attractive.

 

[sunbeast]

I agree completely regarding versatility, but I personally found the powerful voicing of the Streamliner to not really offer a very versatile starting point for me. In the end it was the pillowy dynamic character that I found simultaneously loving when playing by myself and fighting when playing with others. The punchy/clear base tones of the ShuttleMax to me just offer a much better starting point to a wider variety of useable tones with minimal use of EQ- I don't feel the need to turn knobs to their extremes or use external EQ to get a useable tone with the 9.2 like I did with the Streamliner.

All that said, what the Streamliner does it does really well- you just have to want that particular kind of response, because it is not easy to dial out IME...

 

[mouthmw]

Perhaps you've been pairing the amp with warmer sounding cabs? I've read it's best to pair Streamliner with a bit more Hi Fi cabs that are prominent in the mid section. Something like GK NEO.

 

[Red Planet]

It just goes to show how all our needs can be totally different.

The Streamliner sounds like a traditional tube amp. If it is paired with cabs that are traditional you will get the classic bass tone. If it is paired with a modern cab it will yield a totally different tone.

It's almost amazing to me how many folks want this amp to be what it is not.

I pair my Streamliner with two Bergantino HT112 cabs and according to "the experts" this is not advisable. I can tell you from actual gigging experience it works fine. It's not quite as difficult as one would gather from reading these pages.

 

[Red Planet]

So did we ever get a consensus on a flat response (not counting ones cab)?

I saw a couple ways to get there and wasn't sure if one was better than the other. I want to try some of these settings.

On a side not I played a gig this weekend and was using my Shuttle 9.0 two power two Yamaha SM12V cabs for stage monitors. I notice with all the dials at noon I could hear no EQ differences between running into the Preamp or straight in the FX return. I'm guessing the 9.0 is pretty flat. Though this was not real scientific.

 

[steve_rolfeca]

So did we ever get a consensus on a flat response (not counting ones cab)?

I saw a couple ways to get there and wasn't sure if one was better than the other. I want to try some of these settings...

I'm out of town, and my notes are on my home computer, but I think my best pass at a flat response was gain button out, bass and low mids at nine o'clock, treble at about ten o'clock. It still wasn't ruler-flat, but it was about +/- 2db. IIRC, with the EQ at noon, it's +/- about 9 or 10dB, with broad peaks centered 200 Hz and 6-10KHz.

If you want to get it flat quickly and easily, just plug a mic pre into the effects return. My cheap ART tube MP is +/- 1dB from 20-20K, as long as I keep the input gain low.

 

[f.c.geil]

I'm currently running with gain and volume at noon, bass at noon, mids at 3.30, treble at noon. I vary the range based on what I'm trying to achieve for that song. I get a slightly hi-fi, growly tone with the selector at 2.5 kHz, a nice mid-forward tone with selector at 600 Hz, and a really punchy, bassy tone with selector at 220 Hz. In any position, I get a nice clean tone until I dig in, and then it breaks up nicely. Best part is, I only have one knob to turn to completely change the character of the amp.

 

[adivin]

Gain in or out?

 

[f.c.geil]

Sorry, gain in.

 

[Red Planet]

My recenr reipe or combination has caused me to eplore EQ a little more with the Streamliner.

My cabs are already predesposed to the wide glide tone and when I add in my Stingray Classic I get a further acenuation of the scoop. This past weekend I played with the Bass set at 11:00 the Mids set to 600 HZ and Dimed, and the Treble at 12:00.



Actually I'm not looking for a flat tone but I want to find "flat" to give me a better approach to where I want to be. I want to start flat and then tweak the mids to get a simlar tone with my (now traded away) Standard Stingray with the Mid Control on the Bass dimed. It just cuts a little more without being harsh.