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Genzler Amplification Club
- Thread starter Discount Saint
- Start date
I'm not sure if I agree.
The vertical column of 3" drivers minimizes comb-filtering, which widens the dispersion in the horizontal axis.
Rotating the cabinet so that the 3" drivers are in a horizontal line would widen the vertical dispersion.
That's probably fine for Jon Evans - his stage setup suggests that he spends the majority of his time at "Mission Control" - but for a bassist who moves around onstage, keeping the column of 3" drivers vertical will keep the sound of the cabinet consistent on a wider area of the stage.
@groovaholic maybe... maybe not. as the sound radiates from the cone evenly, I wouldn't expect the pattern to change dramatically in either orientation. It does make me wonder what the crossover pont is. I've seen 10's being run up to 3k with a shallow slope on the crossover to a horn driver (Bag End). As I recall, the higher the frequency the more beaming' occurs.
I've never had the pleasure of auditioning a cab in that series. They sure look cool regardless of orientation.
As far as moving about on stage, most of the players I see doing that a lot are also on IEM's so it relly wouldn't matter to them...
I've never had the pleasure of auditioning a cab in that series. They sure look cool regardless of orientation.
As far as moving about on stage, most of the players I see doing that a lot are also on IEM's so it relly wouldn't matter to them...
I wouldn't think so.
The use of the 3" drivers rather than the typical horn tweeter suggests a lower crossover point.
A lower crossover point means those 10s are probably rolled off at a low enough frequency to keep their comb filtering and pistonic beaming from interfering with the dispersion.
IMO, orienting a Bass Array cab with the array horizontal counteracts a significant portion of the really smart, really intentional design of these cabs.
When I used to use a pair of 4x10s, I modified each cab to low-pass one column of speakers - the difference in intelligibility was not subtle.
".5 Aligned" 4x10 cabs | TalkBass.com
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If you guys notice, he's using all 10s. In general, I prefer those for articulation, quickness and punch on wooden stages because they don't reinforce bass frequencies or boom as much.
But I think our brother Joey Kun would be the "tried and true" authority for that statement tho.
But I think our brother Joey Kun would be the "tried and true" authority for that statement tho.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,013
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- 220,866
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
For the normal vertical orientation of the array, the pattern doesn't widen in the horizontal direction but narrows in the vertical direction. The degree to which it narrows and the frequencies that are affected by the narrowing depend on the length oft he array and the driver spacing.
Jeff Genzler
Commercial User
- Feb 9, 2007
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- Disclosures
- Currently GENZLER AMPLIFICATION / Formerly GENZ BENZ
On this subject, in general I would usually recommend that these cabinets are not turned so that the Arrays are in the horizonal plane and not the vertial, BUT in Jon's case, you are correct that he does not move around the stage much and he does have both of the BA210-3 cabs built into a slight wedge stand so that they cabinet (and array) are point straight out at him.
AND he did provide an onstage demo for me, and with these 2 outcabs only doing the stereo effects, it works very well. His main bass tone does only come through the center BA410-3.
With the center bass feel and side stereo effects it does sound massive and "spatial"at the same time.
He does have a lot going on with his pedal kit as well as backing vocals. Pretty talented player and gear technician I'd say.
Also uses his rig for a little upright as well but that is just the pure instruments tone through the rig.
My understanding is that the idea of a line array is that it widens horizontal dispersion and narrows vertical. Turing a line array sideways would theoretically do the opposite - narrow the horizontal dispersion and increase the vertical.
That leaves me with two questions.
The first is to what degree the 4 3 inch speakers actually act like a line array. My experience of my BA cabs is that they do have wider dispersion than other cabs I’ve used. So, I’d say yes, but maybe there are other design features that contribute to that result including the use of the 3 inch drivers period (which are crossed over at 800 hz).
The second is more interesting to me and speaks to this particular use. If the player is only using these BA210-3 cabs for stereo effects, he may actually want to lessen the horizontal spread as a way of enhancing the stereo effect??? Maybe???
That leaves me with two questions.
The first is to what degree the 4 3 inch speakers actually act like a line array. My experience of my BA cabs is that they do have wider dispersion than other cabs I’ve used. So, I’d say yes, but maybe there are other design features that contribute to that result including the use of the 3 inch drivers period (which are crossed over at 800 hz).
The second is more interesting to me and speaks to this particular use. If the player is only using these BA210-3 cabs for stereo effects, he may actually want to lessen the horizontal spread as a way of enhancing the stereo effect??? Maybe???
edwinhurwitz
Supporting Member
If the crossover is at 800hz, you would need to have an array approximately 1.4 feet tall for it to act as a line array from that frequency on up.
Another aspect of the line array is that the sound falls off more or less linearly rather than exponentially.
- Feb 12, 2006
- 61,013
- 5
- 220,866
- Disclosures
- Development Engineer-Mesa Boogie, Development Engineer-Genzler (pedals), Product Support-Genz Benz
This premise is incorrect. The (vertical) line array primarily narrows the vertical dispersion, leaving the horizontal pattern more or less unaffected.
The primary reason for the wider mid coverage is due to the small diameter of each element in the array which results in a wider polar pattern than a larger element would.
Last nights office - part of my Genzler rig to my right…
If anyone in WA is interested I listed a Genz Benz Uber 210 and a rare Uber 810 in the classifieds. They pair well with the Genzler Magellan.
For Sale - Genz Benz Uber 810 and 210
For Sale - Genz Benz Uber 810 and 210
Last night’s rig. Played a ‘barn’ (a large hall) and was nice and punchy. Basses for the show were Sadowsky NYC 4-24 custom, Spector NS-2 USA (4), and an Atelier Z Beta…all with Hipshot D. And, if curious, the Atelier lived up to the hype, the fretwork is Sadowsky/Fodera quality.
Attachments
Sweet nightstand.
That’s what was my first thought.
2:00 on the Clean?
That ain't no night stand unless you're planning on rockin' 'til the dawn!
Either that, or the sub freqs are being used for foreplay.
That ain't no night stand unless you're planning on rockin' 'til the dawn!
Either that, or the sub freqs are being used for foreplay.
The players Jazz bass doesn’t cause the clip light to start flashing, until it’s cranked up that high, then I pull it back just a little.
Fortunately, that’s just a spare bedroom, which I use as a practice room otherwise.
That nightstand sounds pretty sweet though
That nightstand sounds pretty sweet though
Just going by the unwritten Talkbass rule of “picture, or it doesn’t exist.”
