I think that would be an interesting combination - really with any of the NC cabs. I think I checked the measurements before and it would fit perfectly.
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Genzler Amplification Club
- Thread starter Discount Saint
- Start date
I think that would be an interesting combination - really with any of the NC cabs. I think I checked the measurements before and it would fit perfectly.
Joeykun
pronounced ジョーイくん
- Jun 22, 2007
- 4,200
- 16,150
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: LAKLAND SADOWSKY GENZLER DARKGLASS NORDSTRAND TEMPLEBOARD KIRLIN DRSTRINGS ACCESS
I haven’t combined the my BA’s with the NC’s. However, the NC210T/112T stack is a gig worthy beast!
Joeykun
pronounced ジョーイくん
- Jun 22, 2007
- 4,200
- 16,150
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: LAKLAND SADOWSKY GENZLER DARKGLASS NORDSTRAND TEMPLEBOARD KIRLIN DRSTRINGS ACCESS
Now Joey, what is gig-worthy? You would play that stack with a typical Foreigners Journey gig? Specify..
Absolutely! The NC 210T/112T stack sounds amazing with that classic punch and clear high end that’s smooth as silk. The 112 has such a pleasing low end that compliments the vertical 210 to make a small but powerful rig. Especially with the Magellan 800!
I’ve got the 350 and NC210t heading my way, thanks to you guys.
The 350 is a great head. Does more than people think.
Thank you in advance y'all.
Still working it out with the new Genzler rig... Another gig where the band who hired me were feeling like my tone was too bloomy and smeared sometimes. It's not my EQ. This happens flat as well. Almost like sympathetic overtones, wolf tones, room dissonance, but this is has been a few venues in a row. I am no stranger to gear, detailed tone, managing my stage tone, DI's, live performance and dialing in tone etc, but I am still struggling to 'even out' the notes with this rig. Running in passive P-Bass mode last night (BTW, I am not referring to compression 'even'. My technique is very stable, I have been at this a long time, I don't use compression live)
This 210/115 BA combo almost seems to have an unnatural volume drop and tone change - gap between playing soft and digging in. I play soft/dynamics and the tone/volume nearly disappears (too much to be effective) (multiple basses). It is like the entire rig is super stiff. Just curious if anybody has experienced this?
I have other Class D rigs and years of touring and gigging and have never experienced this before. Just looking for insight from the collective user base here. I am happy to find this to be nothing but a lack of relationship with this rig, but it still feels oddly unnatural and stiff. I played the drive channel last night though I don't play with drive in my tone for this band. The small amount of saturation softened/evened out the attack enough to support.
Still working it out with the new Genzler rig... Another gig where the band who hired me were feeling like my tone was too bloomy and smeared sometimes. It's not my EQ. This happens flat as well. Almost like sympathetic overtones, wolf tones, room dissonance, but this is has been a few venues in a row. I am no stranger to gear, detailed tone, managing my stage tone, DI's, live performance and dialing in tone etc, but I am still struggling to 'even out' the notes with this rig. Running in passive P-Bass mode last night (BTW, I am not referring to compression 'even'. My technique is very stable, I have been at this a long time, I don't use compression live)
This 210/115 BA combo almost seems to have an unnatural volume drop and tone change - gap between playing soft and digging in. I play soft/dynamics and the tone/volume nearly disappears (too much to be effective) (multiple basses). It is like the entire rig is super stiff. Just curious if anybody has experienced this?
I have other Class D rigs and years of touring and gigging and have never experienced this before. Just looking for insight from the collective user base here. I am happy to find this to be nothing but a lack of relationship with this rig, but it still feels oddly unnatural and stiff. I played the drive channel last night though I don't play with drive in my tone for this band. The small amount of saturation softened/evened out the attack enough to support.
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Very interesting observation and explanation of YOUR experience. I have BA 15-3 and do not experience what you are describing. Go straight from bass to amp, no pedals or compressor. Tried your combo at a dealer and could experience what the BA 210-3 added to my BA15-3, all I can say is WOW! I had a full range of dynamics without any dips in tone or volume as you describe. Hope this accurate of your experience. Now at home I have a GENZ/MESA rig, to give full disclosure. I run my amp flat, with HPF set to eliminate any troublesome low resonance or rumble caused by room or surface cab is on. Majority of tone changes come from onboard EQ from my basses which is very effective and wide range. Hope this helps some.
Maybe @Jamvan can chime in as he has the same rig except I believe his BA21-3 is straight not slanted.
Maybe @Jamvan can chime in as he has the same rig except I believe his BA21-3 is straight not slanted.
Yes... my experience. Not sure why the emphasis on that? But all good. That is exactly why I posted it here. I have little doubt of the quality of the rig and have faith in my purchase - I am a fan of Jeffs for years. This is just a consistent experience thus far from a full-time musician, and an unexpected one. As for the dealer experience, I respect that. Still nothing has any real-world relevance like regularly gigging a rig under different circumstances, different instruments etc. That said, I have not tried just the 2-10 alone or just the 115 alone at a gig yet. I am happy to re-learn this rig as I want it to work.
EDIT: I got compliments on my playing and tone from other musicians last night. We make it work the best we can regardless of where we are, but this affects the way I hear and play and that is key of course.
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interesting… I’d be curious as to what would happen as you isolate different parts of the signal path… Try each cab with a different head maybe and then the head with a different cab to see when/where the issue goes away.
When recently comparing a Genzler 2x BA12-3 SLT stack to a Genzler MG-212T at moderate volume through a WD800 head I had a similar experience where the BA stack seemed less nuanced/dynamic.
The BAs showed less color and heart, but were more detailed.
My solution was using a fast compressor with the BA cabs. Really bought back the charm that the flatness of the cabs' response leveled out.
The compressor also managed the bloom.
MG-212T = dynamics over detail
Nice in the absence of signal processing
BA12-3 = detail over dynamics
Responds well to signal processing
In digital terms, detail could be like bitrate and dynamics like sample rate.
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Yeah brother, doing that today. I have 3 heads, 2 I know well, 4 cabinets and 2 DI boxes (just to remove the Genzler DI as well) running multiple signal paths today just as a process of evaluation.
Thank you, I appreciate it. Fundamentally I can't agree in the least. Requiring a compressor in the signal path for basic stage sound management is neither desirable nor necessary for a proper cab reproduction or 'what goes in comes out' type of sound, tweeter or not. The BAs certainly weren't designed to require signal processing. I purchased this rig explicitly for clarity and detail which it has a great deal of.
I am not too quick to blame the equipment design here in the least, just hoping to gain some insight on this particular rig. A couple weeks back I posted my first experience with it. The end result thus far has been consistent. I'll know more by end of day.
Joeykun
pronounced ジョーイくん
- Jun 22, 2007
- 4,200
- 16,150
- Disclosures
- Endorsing: LAKLAND SADOWSKY GENZLER DARKGLASS NORDSTRAND TEMPLEBOARD KIRLIN DRSTRINGS ACCESS
@Joeykun awesome rig as always. Are you going to upgrade your BA–15–3 to the series 2? I’ve got your exact rig and thinking of getting the new 15
Interested in how you decide to manage your sound.
My BA-12 SLT cabs can safely go really deep IME.
They seem to communicate spacial information and go lower than, say, the original BA-12 I also compared. The SLTs place more responsibility on other parts of the chain for taming the low lows and adding breath to highs, but reward that conscious signal control with improved, wider spatial representation. My SLT v1 cabs feel less inherently compressed and colored than the OG BA series, but can convey a communicate a compressed tone well (hope that makes sense).
While some cabs having more aggressive roll-off tame the lows by virtue of their design, the SLT seems more willing to radiate them. I remember reading somewhere that the SLT design reduces "standing waves" as well, but that's way out of my depth.
Again as an amateur, my understanding also is that cab placement on stage plays a role in bloom, but that's likely something you're experienced handling. You've got some great gear in play, just maybe a shade different than what you're accustomed to dialing in.
I thought the same.
FWIW I just acquired a couple of cabs from a different manufacturer and it's much different than the Genzlers cabs I have. Have spent the weekend thus far getting acquainted and have a good sound - a different sound. Different EQ than what I usually do. I think I have something that's ready for full band practice tomorrow. It took a minute to think about what the cab was emphasizing, what I thought was lacking.... Made me re think things in a good way.
Try using b contour or rolling the bass back to 11 o’clock. The mids will really come forward
