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Genzler, Mesa, Aguilar & GK - The public's votes on class D amps

Choose your favorite of these amps


  • Total voters
    287
So how do you all with the MESA D-800 set your amp to get max clean volume out of it...I know what the manual says, but I also know that us musicians, especially bassists, will find ways to squeeze an extra clean watt out of anything...

Currently running mine into a MB Traveler 102P and a MB Standard 102HF playing my Fender American Deluxe Dimension HH, so she is @ 4ohms, yet last night at practice for some reason my singer said "there's something going on with your rig" and he was kind of right, I typically play dirty, where the OD light is on most of the time, but last night the Limit light was on a whole lot as well, for some reason the MESA was breathing heavy and my tone wasn't overdriven anymore, it was distorted...any ideas?

Apologies if this is not the appropriate forum for this question, kind of new around here.
 
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If the berg had a tube in the front end, I would probably already own it and be happy as a clam. That said, the character of it as described seems very much like the peavey mini mega. Clean, even, neutral. That is great but, not really my thing. I like more harmonics.

The B|Amp most definitely has more complexity to the tone than the MiniMega. Granted, I like the MiniMega a lot, and I have said that it does kind of cop a similar overall vibe to the B|Amp, but the Berg definitely has more pleasant harmonics, but is also more smooth and refined. It reminds me of home hi-fi tube gear a bit, though it certainly does not have the same level of "warm" tube harmonics as my Studio 1200, or an all-tube head.
 
So how do you all with the MESA D-800 set your amp to get max clean volume out of it...I know what the manual says, but I also know that us musicians, especially bassists, will find ways to squeeze an extra clean watt out of anything...

Currently running mine into a MB Traveler 102P and a MB Standard 102HF playing my Fender American Deluxe Dimension HH, so she is @ 4ohms, yet last night at practice for some reason my singer said "there's something going on with your rig" and he was kind of right, I typically play dirty, where the OD light is on most of the time, but last night the Limit light was on a whole lot as well, for some reason the MESA was breathing heavy and my tone wasn't overdriven anymore, it was distorted...any ideas?

Apologies if this is not the appropriate forum for this question, kind of new around here.
The first thing to check is that all of the speakers are operating properly. Regularly using an overdriven tone at high levels can damage speakers without your knowledge because the amp is actually delivering more than the rated power. If you lose one driver in a multi-driver cabinet, the open cone actually subtracts SPL (at low frequencies) from the operating one which really impacts output. Also, if the drivers have suffered from long term mechanical damage, they will no longer match up with the tuning of the enclosure, impacting LF performance and SPL.

Another thing to check is that the impedance switch is set in the 4-8 ohm position, reduced output will result with a 4 ohm load in the 2 ohm position.

Is it possible that you were suffering from ear fatigue from the band playing louder than usual? Your ears will naturally shut down some which can lead to turning up and up.
 
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The first thing to check is that all of the speakers are operating properly. Regularly using an overdriven tone at high levels can damage speakers without your knowledge because the amp is actually delivering more than the rated power. If you lose one driver in a multi-driver cabinet, the open cone actually subtracts SPL (at low frequencies) from the operating one which really impacts output. Also, if the drivers have suffered from long term mechanical damage, they will no longer match up with the tuning of the enclosure, impacting LF performance and SPL.

Another thing to check is that the impedance switch is set in the 4-8 ohm position, reduced output will result with a 4 ohm load in the 2 ohm position.

Is it possible that you were suffering from ear fatigue from the band playing louder than usual? Your ears will naturally shut down some which can lead to turning up and up.
Thanks for the reply, cabs are fine and sound awesome with other amps, impedance is indeed set for 4-8ohms. Ear fatigue is a high possibility ;-) However gain set at about 11 o'clock and master set at about 1 o'clock, voicing at about 10 o'clock with EQ flat, tiny bump in the upper mids, seems to be the tap out point for the amp, any more ticks up the clock and it doesn't sound real good.
 
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The topic says CLASS D amps-

The MarkBass Little Mark III is not Class D- it is Class A-B.

I wanted to vote for the MarkBass F-500 as my personal favorite Class D amp, followed
by the F1. I love these.

The way the voting is presently set up, I don't think
we can even vote for the MarkBass F1s or F-500 heads.

This is a shame.
They rule, to me.

If they are added as a choice, I would vote for them.

It would get my vote also, along with the GB Shuttle 6.2. The only amp I ever played on the list was the GK MB 500, which I didn't care for at all.

Lots of great heads on that list, for sure. I understand that the MiniMega is over the 800w limit, but it costs less than many heads on that list, and I think very highly of it. Staying within the wattage range, though, you are still missing the current Acoustic Image heads (which are great), and the fantastic Bergantino B|Amp.

Just to put this to bed because some others have brought up that there are some good candidates not on this list. That being from my OP, that these are just appearing as some of the most talked about Class-D amps presently (4/22/16) :)

So, I just wanted to limit the discussion a bit. But feel free to throw in your thoughts on other of these featherweight amps and how they match up to any experience you have with some of the original group. All of that feeds a larger knowledge base, everyone will appreciate, I think. ;)
 
Thanks for the reply, cabs are fine and sound awesome with other amps, impedance is indeed set for 4-8ohms. Ear fatigue is a high possibility ;-) However gain set at about 11 o'clock and master set at about 1 o'clock, voicing at about 10 o'clock with EQ flat, tiny bump in the upper mids, seems to be the tap out point for the amp, any more ticks up the clock and it doesn't sound real good.
Did you check the cabinets carefully after experiencing this?

If you were hitting the output limiting function that hard, either you really were driving the snot out of your speakers and your ears lost sensitivity from higher band levels, or something was preventing you speakers from delivering the SPL based on power input.

Were you using the deep filter? At high volumes, the deep filter will deliver more power than your speakers can handle (mechanically) at low frequencies based on the published specifications. This is a common limitation of the compact speaker catagory when higher SPL is necessary.
 
The market of class-D heads is taking off more and more and while these builders are by no means the only dog's in the race, they seem to be some of the most talked about/revered right now (IMO). I wanted to create a space for them to be held up side-by-side by those who have some experience with them.

Let's limit this discussion to the 500-800 watt amps by these companies, so we're talking about more apples-to-apples.

You owners of goodness, describe for us what differences you see in these that you've owned. Let's get experience and observations of tonal flavors and features you've liked or not to help some future owners make some informed decisions. :)

So the contenders are...

Genzler Magellan
Mesa Boogie Subway 800
GK MB and Fusion series
Aguilar Tonehammer
I use a Crown XLS1000 class D PA amp, bridged.
 
Did you check the cabinets carefully after experiencing this?

If you were hitting the output limiting function that hard, either you really were driving the snot out of your speakers and your ears lost sensitivity from higher band levels, or something was preventing you speakers from delivering the SPL based on power input.

Were you using the deep filter? At high volumes, the deep filter will deliver more power than your speakers can handle (mechanically) at low frequencies based on the published specifications. This is a common limitation of the compact speaker catagory when higher SPL is necessary.
No Sir, no deep filter. Driving the snot out of the speakers could be accurate, at lower volumes the amp is awesome. FYI cabs are rated @ 101db SPL. Checked cabs by connecting to my GK MBF800, they seemed A-OK.
Hey BTW - Rob Duvall has my M6 this week for the "upgrade" as the MOSFETs shorted, give him a hearty HELLO for me!
 
No Sir, no deep filter. Driving the snot out of the speakers could be accurate, at lower volumes the amp is awesome. FYI cabs are rated @ 101db SPL. Checked cabs by connecting to my GK MBF800, they seemed A-OK.
Hey BTW - Rob Duvall has my M6 this week for the "upgrade" as the MOSFETs shorted, give him a hearty HELLO for me!
As a factual engineering reality check, it's highly unlikely that your cabinet (or any ceramic driver 210 of that size) can achieve 101dB/1W/1M average sensitivity AND simultaneously have an "RMS" rating of 400 watts. It's outside of the tradeoff envelope for just about every dynamic loudspeaker I have ever worked with. Now the way sensitivity is defined is not stated, but if it's peak sensitivity, then that does not translate into any usable SPL metric because it depends entirely on where the peak is measured and what multiplying factor is used in the conversion from average to peak. It could easily be different than the average number by as much as 6dB, which is why peak sensitivity is not a good number to rely on.

Here's why:

For example, factors that can affect the peak (versus average) sensitivity number include the Q of the low frequency measuring the peak in an underdamped design, measuring the response where the tweeter dominates (because a tweeter will almost always have a raw sensitivity of >103dB/1W/1M), using the simple mathematical conversion of adding 3dB to the average (or "RMS") number to convert to peak based on the shape of the test waveform, using something other than 1/2-space boundary conditions for measurement/calculation (using 1/4-space conditions, simple corner loading, would add 3dB to the 1/2-space number), etc. Also note that just about every manufacturer these days uses calculated SPL based on small signal models, which do not factor power compression losses into the maximum SPL performance results. Where power compression becomes a significant factor, the calculated maximum SPL (from the large signal model) results will differ significantly from the small signal model, which is why some designers look very carefully at what happens at the outside edges of the performance limits rather than ignoring the possible effects of power compression non-linearity.

Now it's possible to achieve 101dB/1W/1M average sensitivity using a (high performance) Neo driver, but not at 40Hz in a cabinet that small, and not at that power level. This is because it's possible to make the motor stronger and the field more focused by using a stronger interior magnetic slug, which allows for slightly "better" gap geometry and more efficient use of the magnetic field through the voice coil. But, in order to achieve this kind of sensitivity at 40-45Hz, a larger cabinet (larger internal volume) is needed in order to support the necessary tuning for this kind of low frequency extension. This is the struggle that EVERY manufacturer deals with, and the physics is uncompromising to say the least ;)

Hope this helps bring together the difference between theoretical and real world performance differences and helps folks better understand why it's important to recognize how better to manage real world performance compromises. This has nothing to do specifically with the cabinets "Bass40Hz" is using, but applies equally to this class of compact speaker cabinets by every manufacturer.
 
As a factual engineering reality check, it's highly unlikely that your cabinet (or any ceramic driver 210 of that size) can achieve 101dB/1W/1M average sensitivity AND simultaneously have an "RMS" rating of 400 watts. It's outside of the tradeoff envelope for just about every dynamic loudspeaker I have ever worked with. Now the way sensitivity is defined is not stated, but if it's peak sensitivity, then that does not translate into any usable SPL metric because it depends entirely on where the peak is measured and what multiplying factor is used in the conversion from average to peak. It could easily be different than the average number by as much as 6dB, which is why peak sensitivity is not a good number to rely on.

Here's why:

For example, factors that can affect the peak (versus average) sensitivity number include the Q of the low frequency measuring the peak in an underdamped design, measuring the response where the tweeter dominates (because a tweeter will almost always have a raw sensitivity of >103dB/1W/1M), using the simple mathematical conversion of adding 3dB to the average (or "RMS") number to convert to peak based on the shape of the test waveform, using something other than 1/2-space boundary conditions for measurement/calculation (using 1/4-space conditions, simple corner loading, would add 3dB to the 1/2-space number), etc. Also note that just about every manufacturer these days uses calculated SPL based on small signal models, which do not factor power compression losses into the maximum SPL performance results. Where power compression becomes a significant factor, the calculated maximum SPL (from the large signal model) results will differ significantly from the small signal model, which is why some designers look very carefully at what happens at the outside edges of the performance limits rather than ignoring the possible effects of power compression non-linearity.

Now it's possible to achieve 101dB/1W/1M average sensitivity using a (high performance) Neo driver, but not at 40Hz in a cabinet that small, and not at that power level. This is because it's possible to make the motor stronger and the field more focused by using a stronger interior magnetic slug, which allows for slightly "better" gap geometry and more efficient use of the magnetic field through the voice coil. But, in order to achieve this kind of sensitivity at 40-45Hz, a larger cabinet (larger internal volume) is needed in order to support the necessary tuning for this kind of low frequency extension. This is the struggle that EVERY manufacturer deals with, and the physics is uncompromising to say the least ;)

Hope this helps bring together the difference between theoretical and real world performance differences and helps folks better understand why it's important to recognize how better to manage real world performance compromises. This has nothing to do specifically with the cabinets "Bass40Hz" is using, but applies equally to this class of compact speaker cabinets by every manufacturer.
Really appreciate the in depth reply, wish I could say that I understand it all..LOL. There are NEO drivers in these cabs, but I get what your saying....I need to reset my expectations with this combo of amp and cabs. Clear as crystal, thanks again!
 
As a factual engineering reality check, it's highly unlikely that your cabinet (or any ceramic driver 210 of that size) can achieve 101dB/1W/1M average sensitivity AND simultaneously have an "RMS" rating of 400 watts. It's outside of the tradeoff envelope for just about every dynamic loudspeaker I have ever worked with. Now the way sensitivity is defined is not stated, but if it's peak sensitivity, then that does not translate into any usable SPL metric because it depends entirely on where the peak is measured and what multiplying factor is used in the conversion from average to peak. It could easily be different than the average number by as much as 6dB, which is why peak sensitivity is not a good number to rely on.

Here's why:

For example, factors that can affect the peak (versus average) sensitivity number include the Q of the low frequency measuring the peak in an underdamped design, measuring the response where the tweeter dominates (because a tweeter will almost always have a raw sensitivity of >103dB/1W/1M), using the simple mathematical conversion of adding 3dB to the average (or "RMS") number to convert to peak based on the shape of the test waveform, using something other than 1/2-space boundary conditions for measurement/calculation (using 1/4-space conditions, simple corner loading, would add 3dB to the 1/2-space number), etc. Also note that just about every manufacturer these days uses calculated SPL based on small signal models, which do not factor power compression losses into the maximum SPL performance results. Where power compression becomes a significant factor, the calculated maximum SPL (from the large signal model) results will differ significantly from the small signal model, which is why some designers look very carefully at what happens at the outside edges of the performance limits rather than ignoring the possible effects of power compression non-linearity.

Now it's possible to achieve 101dB/1W/1M average sensitivity using a (high performance) Neo driver, but not at 40Hz in a cabinet that small, and not at that power level. This is because it's possible to make the motor stronger and the field more focused by using a stronger interior magnetic slug, which allows for slightly "better" gap geometry and more efficient use of the magnetic field through the voice coil. But, in order to achieve this kind of sensitivity at 40-45Hz, a larger cabinet (larger internal volume) is needed in order to support the necessary tuning for this kind of low frequency extension. This is the struggle that EVERY manufacturer deals with, and the physics is uncompromising to say the least ;)

Hope this helps bring together the difference between theoretical and real world performance differences and helps folks better understand why it's important to recognize how better to manage real world performance compromises. This has nothing to do specifically with the cabinets "Bass40Hz" is using, but applies equally to this class of compact speaker cabinets by every manufacturer.

And yet one more reason @agedhorse is the man.

Thank you for your service to us all sir buy your great insights and products. Even us non-users (though hopefully one day!) greatly appreciate all you give to the low-end community. :)