Getting overpaid - owner wants it back

[longfinger]

Here is an update after talking to the BL.

BL was at the venue earlier in the week because it had a somewhat awkward and small stage area and wanted to see how we could set up. Both owner and manager (who normally does the booking) were present and the pay was discussed again. The manager was fully aware of what was to be paid. After the gig BL went to the bar and the manager was in the process of writing out a check for $100 more than agreed. Manager said is this good? BL assumed it was a tip and said yes and took the check. Several times during the night the bar manager made comments on our playing and between sets told the BL that the bar take was excellent. After hearing this I feel BL did nothing wrong. Everybody was aware of the amount agreed and the representative of the venue decided to pay extra.

BL is going to reach out to the bar manager and have some discussion with him. We will offer a discount, perhaps $50 per gig on the next two gigs. I highly doubt that we will play there again. But I guess we will see.

ahh, then simply give the $100 back. E-transfer if the BL does not want to make the journey, or if he commutes then return with cash / cheque.

 

[JRA]

BL thought...that's pretty cool, and since we had pulled a good crowd he didn't think anything of it and took the cash......A couple days later the owner called and said my guy over paid you $100. What do you want to do about it? The BL just told her we thought you appreciated our playing and the crowd we brought in so we accepted it. She made him feel like we did something wrong and we owe her something. Do we? Should we offer to discount another gig?

the extra $100 could have easily been referenced during the payout, by your BL! calling/naming it as "a tip" would have been fine, but he needed to acknowledge the total amount as it was being paid by the paymaster. i see it as a failure of your BL to clarify ATM. everything that follows is a function of that failure!*



* i'm not suggesting that i would have acted differently, in which case: it would have been my failure, my responsibility to make things right, get along, yada yada!

 

[Nek07]

If they said your meal was $100 and you accidentally gave them $200, and the waiter assumed that was a tip, would you want that back? Because that’s what happened here.

If they ask for $100 (wich would be cheap where I am, a big mac meal is $11 in Texas, it is $30 in switzerland), and my wife willingly offer $200, it would not be an accident...and I would have a discution with her, not the bar, because it is too late for that.
Listen, the OP was clear that the manager knew how much was requested because he was part of the talk about that with the owner, so it was no accident. And people have to assume their mistakes without calling people a thief. Moreover, if he had doubts, he could have called the owner to check, it is either he fkd up or he wanted to give a tip.
Nowadays, $100 is nothing so I think that the bar owner could be a gracious looser.

 

[Knavery]

And it will remain that way as long as there is no minimum standard, as long as anyone can call themselves a musician, no matter how unskilled -- and undercut everyone else's price. Compare that to being an engineer, a doctor, or a lawyer, who have had to demonstrate significant knowledge and ability to earn that degree.

There used to be a musician's union where you had to demonstrate a certain degree of competence on your instrument (which most rock'n'roll guitarists couldn't pass since reading was part of it) to be considered for employment. Instead, we've got bozos who complain how terribly hard it is to learn the names of the notes yet are still allowed to call themselves musicians.

That's a bit of a hot take, IMO. There are a lot of good musicians out there that don't know how to read music. Some of the greatest bands on Earth never knew how including some of the best guitarists and bassists that ever lived. But I get the jist of what your saying. I guess you get big enough to be able to call your own shots much like other entertainers, or you're at the will of those running the show.

 

[ImTheOnlyOne]

Discussed this with my wife, she said this sounds like a verbal amendment to the band's contract. A thank you from a representative of the club.

The club changed everything. The band did what was required.

The band did nothing wrong, the club should explain what why something's wrong.

IANAL, but this jibes with my understanding of contracts (unless the contract contains a clause saying all changes are to be written only).

 

[KenSmithFan]

If they ask for $100 (wich would be cheap where I am, a big mac meal is $11 in Texas, it is $30 in switzerland), and my wife willingly offer $200, it would not be an accident...and I would have a discution with her, not the bar, because it is too late for that.
Listen, the OP was clear that the manager knew how much was requested because he was part of the talk about that with the owner, so it was no accident. And people have to assume their mistakes without calling people a thief. Moreover, if he had doubts, he could have called the owner to check, it is either he fkd up or he wanted to give a tip.
Nowadays, $100 is nothing so I think that the bar owner could be a gracious looser.
View attachment 5376573

It’s IMPOSSIBLE to overpay? Two bills can’t stick together? Someone couldn’t misread the check? You can't misunderstand how much someone said you owe?

You are certainly entitled to your opinion on this, but facts are facts and mistakes happen. To say it's impossible that your wife could make a mistake is just silly. Let's try to be real.

There’s an old saying, “Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”

 

[Nek07]

It’s IMPOSSIBLE to overpay? Two bills can’t stick together? Someone couldn’t misread the check? You can't misunderstand how much someone said you owe?

View attachment 5376640
You are certainly entitled to your opinion on this, but facts are facts and mistakes happen. To say it's impossible that your wife could make a mistake is just silly. Let's try to be real.

There’s an old saying, “Don’t pee on my leg and tell me it’s raining.”

Making a mistake with bills, ok ,but on a check? Go back to school...especially if you are a "manager".
Here, everything is mostly with card, and usually we do not do tips in most europe.
I just go by if you do a mistake, you assume it. The manager should assume it, not anyone else.

 

[DaveParker39]

All of the work I do is contract work... as a healthcare provider, as a musician, consultant, all of it.
When I routinely do work for the same company and something gets *slightly* miscalculated ($100 is slight in the food service/bar industry), an overpayment or an underpayment, we settle up on the next invoice/payment. It's a good faith gesture on both ends and emphasizes the importance of each other's business. That's why I like the $100 credit idea.

 

[Five or Six]

My first thought - keep it. On second thought, return it if you want to play there again.

Play there again may not happen even if the money is returned. We don't know if that's even happened? This has been dragged out way to long. I would say that yes, the manager over paid. Shame on that person for not knowing the contract. Shame on the BL for not clarifying what the extra was for! It was assumption. 2 wrongs didn't make a right here. The owner caught the mistake going over the books, and called manager out. More than likely the owner told the manager get the $100 back. $100 screw up by two people with out a known resolve.

 

[Roxbororob]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long and that common sense is so misunderstood.
Props to those who have suggested taking the high road.

 

[Bob Coldwell]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long and that common sense is so misunderstood.
Props to those who have suggested taking the high road.

Agreed.

 

[Frampton]

It's $100. Tell them you thought it was a gratuity and then give it back. Otherwise, they will never hire you again and may badmouth you. Who needs that for $100? They're also legally entitled to it back, the same way you would be if they shorted you $100. You had an agreement - they mistakenly overpaid you - you have to give it back.

 

[vvvmmm]

So, the other day the app for the train crashed on my phone due to an update, and the conductor said he would return to me.

I couldn't get it going right then, found the conductor a cuppla cars up a half hour later as I got exited, flagged him down and offered to pay cash.

He waived me off, thanked me for my courtesy.

Mebbe offering the refund gets ya's the same?

 

[MoireBass]

a big mac meal is $11 in Texas, it is $30 in switzerland

Oh, that's horrible! I tried a Big Mac once, decades ago, and it was so bad I've never eaten another. I grill much better burgers in my back yard, and I'm not that good a cook.

We have a local chain called P. Terry's: About Us - P. Terry's
You can get a double cheeseburger, double meat, double cheese, 100% Black Angus beef, no hormones, no antibiotics, no filler, never frozen; freshly hand-cut french fries that are waaay better than McDooky's; and a chocolate shake for $10.65.

 

[buldog5151bass]

So, the other day the app for the train crashed on my phone due to an update, and the conductor said he would return to me.

I couldn't get it going right then, found the conductor a cuppla cars up a half hour later as I got exited, flagged him down and offered to pay cash.

He waived me off, thanked me for my courtesy.

Mebbe offering the refund gets ya's the same?

The conductor isn't the one losing money. The venue owner is.

 

[mstillman]

If an ATM or teller accidentally gave you an extra hundred, you'd have to return it. Same thing.

I disagree about it being the same thing. Neither ATMs nor tellers ever tip the people they interact with, as those people aren't providing a service, especially one that often gets tipped.

 

[buldog5151bass]

1. We don't actually know if it was a tip or a mistake.
2. They had a contract. Im guessing it was at the insistance of yhe band, ot the venue. Why do we want to hold the venue to the agreement, but think we don't have to?

Man, some of you are entitled.

 

[mstillman]

I'm guessing that the other groups that play there charge $100.00 more than you guys and that's what the manager thought was your price as well. In that scenario, I would pay the money back (contract) and then charge them $100.00 more, at your next gig at the bar.
Fishheadjoe

^^THIS.

I'm somewhat surprised this approach wasn't mentioned earlier.

 

[bassicmike]

It's a week later. Did this get resolution?

 

[bassicmike]

fwiw, I think the $100 credit on the next booking would be the first play. At least you get back to the venue once.