Getting overpaid - owner wants it back

[StereoPlayer]

In a different direction. A bar owner contacted us a week after we played and said they shorted us $200.00.
It was very unexpected.
When we first got paid we just thought the had a bad night, we didn’t like it but just went home. There are some venues that pay a percentage of the night. Plus, our tip bucket.

 

[EdO.]

Offer them a $100 discount on the next gig, get booked again and if you bring the same crowd surely everyone would be happy?

Best suggestion so far. Assures you'll get another chance to play there again (assuming it's somewhere you'd like to play on a semi regular basis). If you get a good audience in there a couple times in a row more likely it can become a regular booking you can count on and potentially help build your rep. This is a great opportunity to turn a negative into a positive.

Pay it back if you want to work there again.

That's the lowest common denominator here. At a minimum it's a positive to your reputation.

If it were me I’d just give it back and apologize by saying we assumed it was a tip for doing a good job because that’s what other venues in the area have done for us (probably a lie but hey, make them feel a little crappy about asking for money back).

If nothing else there's a reputational issue here, as well as a karma issue. Do the right thing, it will ultimately come back to you in a positive manner. You have way more to lose here than to gain by making a big deal of it. If they're decent people they'll appreciate that you're working with them to solve the issue. If they're not no great loss and your rep and karma remain positive.

Waiting to hear how this resolves and what comes of it. Please post your results.

 

[retslock]

An overpayment shouldn't occur without clarification from the venue. I would have asked the question at the time if the extra is a tip or bonus for a successful night. Now that time has passed it could appear to the owner that you tried to take advantage of an honest mistake on their part. Perhaps the person who handed you the cash could clarify if it was intentional or not. That would at least put you in the clear if it was intentional as long as you return the $100.
We did a local gig recently that for my wife and I was very close to home but for the drummer and guitarist it was over an hour drive. It's a small club so my wife (singer & BL) made out two invoices. One that would cover the musicians but she would not get paid (the fee the club agreed to when they booked us) and the other with extra that would cover her too. It was a hugely successful afternoon gig and the bar did very well. BL approached the bar manager and explained her method. They agreed that it had been a big day for the club so he happily accepted the second invoice for the higher sum. That club wants us back.

 

[Runnerman]

Here is an update after talking to the BL.

BL was at the venue earlier in the week because it had a somewhat awkward and small stage area and wanted to see how we could set up. Both owner and manager (who normally does the booking) were present and the pay was discussed again. The manager was fully aware of what was to be paid. After the gig BL went to the bar and the manager was in the process of writing out a check for $100 more than agreed. Manager said is this good? BL assumed it was a tip and said yes and took the check. Several times during the night the bar manager made comments on our playing and between sets told the BL that the bar take was excellent. After hearing this I feel BL did nothing wrong. Everybody was aware of the amount agreed and the representative of the venue decided to pay extra.

BL is going to reach out to the bar manager and have some discussion with him. We will offer a discount, perhaps $50 per gig on the next two gigs. I highly doubt that we will play there again. But I guess we will see.

 

[Nek07]

All I say is, with someone that petty for a 100$, bad talk is not related to what you do with the money, she will trash you no matter what.
The only honorable way for everyone, as I see it, is to take it as a deposit for a futur gig there as I said before. Because she is bad mouthing you for sure, so playing there another time will help you shut any rumor way more efficiently than giving back the money. People talk of morale, but it goes both ways.

 

[Nek07]

In a different direction. A bar owner contacted us a week after we played and said they shorted us $200.00.
It was very unexpected.
When we first got paid we just thought the had a bad night, we didn’t like it but just went home. There are some venues that pay a percentage of the night. Plus, our tip bucket.

I had this kind of situation once, should had 50€ per musicians (we were 4), a meal and drink on the house after the show. We got two Dr. Oetker frozen pizza for us four and one round of beer. At the moment of money talking after the show, the bar tender said that there was not enought people for him to pay us...see picture bellow.
I didnt do a thing on the spot, because I was young and not really equiped to deal with this kind of BS other than trash the place, but I was something else, a customer.
It was in a small town, I was a NCO in the local army base, all I will say is this bar didnt saw many soldiers past that point and he didnt last long before vanishing.
It is Karma after all.

The gig

The army

 

[KenSmithFan]

After the gig BL went to the bar and the manager was in the process of writing out a check for $100 more than agreed. Manager said is this good?

If that's what really happened then they are both wrong. If the manager didn't know how much to pay she should have checked the contract, or at least asked the BL what the agreement was. However, the BL should have told the manager how much the contract was for and verified that it was a tip.

I keep going back to, if the manager had given the BL a check for $100 less than agreed. If she had, and said is the good, the BL would have said, "According to the contract, we're supposed to get $XXX." If you're being honest, you'll admit that's true. I just don't understand why so many people think it doesn't cut both ways. I guess I'm old fashioned and think my word should mean something.

This same thing has happened to me. The owner was out, the manager handed me a check for $50 more than agreed on and I handed it back and said, "Our contract called for $XXX." The manager thanked me. It really wasn't hard at all.

I envy all you guys who seem to be getting paid $100 extra at so many gigs that you just take it for granted and don't even think about it.

 

[sean_on_bass]

Here is an update after talking to the BL.

BL was at the venue earlier in the week because it had a somewhat awkward and small stage area and wanted to see how we could set up. Both owner and manager (who normally does the booking) were present and the pay was discussed again. The manager was fully aware of what was to be paid. After the gig BL went to the bar and the manager was in the process of writing out a check for $100 more than agreed. Manager said is this good? BL assumed it was a tip and said yes and took the check. Several times during the night the bar manager made comments on our playing and between sets told the BL that the bar take was excellent. After hearing this I feel BL did nothing wrong. Everybody was aware of the amount agreed and the representative of the venue decided to pay extra.

BL is going to reach out to the bar manager and have some discussion with him. We will offer a discount, perhaps $50 per gig on the next two gigs. I highly doubt that we will play there again. But I guess we will see.

Personally i would just head up there and slap the $100 on the bar to just be done with it and not have a loose end hanging out there. Ya'll are just dragging this out.

 

[JenderBazzFass]

I would have went right back up there with a $100 bill and handed it to him to preserve the relationship and good will. No sense ruining that over $20-$25 per person

 

[Barticus]

I forgot to say that there was a contract. We just assumed the extra was a tip for a good performance if that makes sense.

If there was a contract, you should honor it. The manager goofed up.

 

[P. Aaron]

After load out the bar manager paid our BL and gave him $100 more than was agreed on with the club owner. Said he loved our playing and thanked us. BL thought...that's pretty cool, and since we had pulled a good crowd he didn't think anything of it and took the cash.

Discussed this with my wife, she said this sounds like a verbal amendment to the band's contract. A thank you from a representative of the club.

The club changed everything. The band did what was required.

The band did nothing wrong, the club should explain what why something's wrong.

 

[5StringBlues]

THE second paragraph of this post is the whole enchilada.

If that's what really happened then they are both wrong. If the manager didn't know how much to pay she should have checked the contract, or at least asked the BL what the agreement was. However, the BL should have told the manager how much the contract was for and verified that it was a tip.

I keep going back to, if the manager had given the BL a check for $100 less than agreed. If she had, and said is the good, the BL would have said, "According to the contract, we're supposed to get $XXX." If you're being honest, you'll admit that's true. I just don't understand why so many people think it doesn't cut both ways. I guess I'm old fashioned and think my word should mean something.

This same thing has happened to me. The owner was out, the manager handed me a check for $50 more than agreed on and I handed it back and said, "Our contract called for $XXX." The manager thanked me. It really wasn't hard at all.

I envy all you guys who seem to be getting paid $100 extra at so many gigs that you just take it for granted and don't even think about it.

 

[Bob Coldwell]

I don't understand why this is even a question for the band.
There was a contract.
A mistake was made in paying.
Just like if your bank accidentally dumped $100 into your account, they WILL take it back.
And you can't say anything about it. It wasn't YOUR money.
And the idea that the bar owner is being petty--- what about the band? A group of 4 people are
in a twist over each person getting $25 less by giving the bar owner their over-payment back?
$25 ????
Really??
The entire issue would have been avoided by the BL clarifying the overpayment immediately when being paid, since the money was above the contracted, expected amount.

Agreed. I said as much earlier. Manager didn't say "Here's a tip". Also, bar owner didn't say "Give me back my money, thief.

Bank resinding money erroneously credited to your account is an excellent comparison.

 

[Hot Rats]

Personally, I would say: "yes, no problem, would you like me to come down and give you the money this week, or would you just prefer to deduct it from our next gig at your wonderful establishment?"

 

[Nek07]

Here is an update after talking to the BL.

BL was at the venue earlier in the week because it had a somewhat awkward and small stage area and wanted to see how we could set up. Both owner and manager (who normally does the booking) were present and the pay was discussed again. The manager was fully aware of what was to be paid. After the gig BL went to the bar and the manager was in the process of writing out a check for $100 more than agreed. Manager said is this good? BL assumed it was a tip and said yes and took the check. Several times during the night the bar manager made comments on our playing and between sets told the BL that the bar take was excellent. After hearing this I feel BL did nothing wrong. Everybody was aware of the amount agreed and the representative of the venue decided to pay extra.

BL is going to reach out to the bar manager and have some discussion with him. We will offer a discount, perhaps $50 per gig on the next two gigs. I highly doubt that we will play there again. But I guess we will see.

I am sorry I didnt see your post before posting mine, because as you explain it, it is clearly a tip and nothing wrong can be said about you, so I will keep it and not even consideer doing anything. It was clearly the manager who made a choice to tip you and it is not your problem if the bar owner is not happy.
The next gig deposit still stand anyway because it is a good way to clean yourself in that area, but to be clear, you dont owe that bar owner anything.

I mean, if I go to a restaurant, and my wife over tip, I will not go to the waiter and ask my money back right?

 

[Low End Scum]

I keep going back to, if the manager had given the BL a check for $100 less than agreed. If she had, and said is the good, the BL would have said, "According to the contract, we're supposed to get $XXX." If you're being honest, you'll admit that's true.

That's sorta the whole rub. The "so and so was right and so and so was wrong" thing doesn't really matter that much ultimately. For all the talk about unprofessional venues, venues that don't pay, venues whose whole setup is a half functional board that still smells of the beer that was spilled in it alongside one FOH speaker and a single monitor, this venue had a contract and paid the band. They didn't pay what the contract specified and want to correct that. It wasn't totally 100% clear it was a tip so it's at least in the realm of possibility that nobodies trying to get one over on eachother, just keeping everything to the original agreement which theres nothing wrong with. Nor does their balance sheet matter. I've seen enough execs in corporations I did IT for absolutely lose their mind over a contractors misquote or inaccuracy in estimating for well less than a 100 dollar discrepancy.

If a venue contacted a band a week later to un-short them $100 bucks we'd be singing their praises that there's still non-greasy bar owners out there that "take care of bands"

 

[KenSmithFan]

I mean, if I go to a restaurant, and my wife over tip, I will not go to the waiter and ask my money back right?

If they said your meal was $100 and you accidentally gave them $200, and the waiter assumed that was a tip, would you want that back? Because that’s what happened here.

 

[Low End Scum]

If they said your meal was $100 and you accidentally gave them $200, would you want that back? Because that’s what happened here.

To your point, I did go to a restaurant recently and had a $30 dollar tab at the end of the meal. My brother had recently paid rent so I passed them a $50 and waited. After a little while they came back seeming a little perplexed and asked if I:

A) had actually wanted change
B) If I wanted change, how much

Yeah, I wasn't gonna stiff them but I also wasn't planning on leaving a 66.667% tip either. They'd probably have been completely savaged online for keeping it thinking it was a tip and that I should've rechecked over the original agreed payment.

 

[J Wilson]

This is business.

If they overpaid you $100, refund the $100, whether or not you ever play there again. If you are asked back, it will be obvious you're a square guy who they can see using with no concerns.

Either way, it's the right thing to do. It's not worth sullying a reputation (business and personal) for 100 bucks.

 

[NickyBass]

BL was at the venue earlier in the week because it had a somewhat awkward and small stage area and wanted to see how we could set up. Both owner and manager (who normally does the booking) were present and the pay was discussed again. The manager was fully aware of what was to be paid.

He may have been fully aware at the time, but I'm sure he was worried about other stuff during the week. My guess is that he forgot. But, that is why there is a contract in the first place...it's something that each party agrees to. I had said earlier that I would personally just give it back, but I would also add that if I was in the club owner's shoes, I would just let the band keep it. Either way, I continue to wish for a happy compromise for both sides.