Getting unstuck

[CT Corvette]

Hey everyone,

I'm beginning to play with bands again after a few year hiatus. As I've been practicing for an audition this weekend, I realize that I haven't improved in a long time. I know the basic scales, chords, and arpeggios, know the fretboard pretty well, though I do rely on patterns more than maybe I should, I have decent timing and a decent ear (none of this am I exceptional at). I think what I lack the most is good technique. For example, even though I know how to play most of the arpeggios I need, I'm not super fluent connecting them from one octave to another. I know scales pretty well, but can get lost sometimes descending them. I'm not a flashy player and don't aspire to be, but I would like to keep improving. So, I'm wondering, specifically and in general, what have you don't to start improving again when you feel like you've plateaued? And I know... practice more... but maybe ya'll can inspire me with some ideas?

Thank you!
Brian

 

[Lobster11]

It seems to me that there's nothing quite like auditioning for and/or playing with bands to give you clear direction. Once you have a list of songs to learn, along with their keys and arrangements, you'll find out quickly what skills you need to work on. Your goal will be to play those particular songs as well as you possibly can, which might involve working on particular techniques and such.

In the meantime, you're already doing the best thing you can do, i.e., identifying specific weaknesses in your playing that need work. For each, just create little exercises for yourself: For example, per your post, practice common scales (e.g., major, natural minor, major and minor pentatonic) focusing especially on playing them descending, and practice connecting your arpeggios across multiple octaves. Just remember to slow down and practice these things at a tempo at which you can play cleanly and accurately, and only then speed up, so you don't spend your time practicing how to make mistakes.

The other thing I'd consider if I were returning from some time off would be to carefully examine my physical technique. Are both hands relaxed, with relatively straight wrists? Am I squeezing the fretboard or plucking the strings harder than necessary? In general, did I develop any bad habits the first time around that I should correct now while I'm starting fresh? If you've been away from playing for a while, now is the perfect time to correct any previous bad habits, before you start repeating them.

 

[Killing Floor]

In-person lessons. A teacher can provide immediate feedback and correction. Online, no matter how thorough, can struggle with that habit reinforcement.

and of course, buy a bunch of pedals

 

[Lobster11]

In-person lessons. A teacher can provide immediate feedback and correction. Online, no matter how thorough, can struggle with that habit reinforcement.

and of course, buy a bunch of pedals

Having a good teacher is certainly ideal, if possible, but I'm not sure I'd be quite so insistent on in-person lessons. Especially for a non-beginner, I think virtual lessons can be almost equally effective if you have a setup that allows you to be clearly seen and heard by the teacher (and of course vice-versa).

And yes, of course, buying more gear is always a good idea!

 

[Groove Doctor]

To be more fluent, do 3-4 practice sessions throughout the day of 5-10 mins each. You’ll be surprised how much smoother & fluent it’ll make your playing.

 

[Wasnex]

In my experience, most people improve when they have to. In other words, when you try to play music that is beyond your current ability.

 

[fearceol]

As well as the theory side of things, play along to songs you like. Record yourself doing so if possible. This will help to expose any flaws in your timing.

 

[FullumMusic]

Having a good in-person teacher is incredibly helpful because they can curate lessons and practice exercises for your current skill levels and goals. Without a teacher, it can seem like you're floating in a sea of musical info but not really sure what to learn or how to learn it. With 80 Billion music and bass things to learn on the internet, how do you know what you need to know? What's a good order to learn it? Does it apply to your needs as a bassist and musician? A good teacher should give your learning focus and streamline it.

I know not everyone has access to good teachers. So the other thing i'd suggest is:

Pick 1 thing and focus on improving that.

In your post you point out a few areas in your knowledge and skill base that you could improve. So start with one of them, and only one. Don't try to learn all the things at once. Focus on bite-size bits of knowledge and improvements. When you see decent improvements in that, pick the next thing to add to your practice regimen. The key is not overloading yourself and trying to learn it all at once. The other key is not overwhelming yourself, not learning or practicing anything new, and just playing like you always have.

From your post, it seems like you have the biggest reservations about your technique. Maybe focus on that first. I think the biggest thing with technique is making sure you're not using one that will cause injury. Beyond that, the only thing that makes a technique "bad" is if it prevents you from playing the bass line well or in the right style. So maybe start by adjusting your technique to get rid of bad ergonomics. Then start going through different techniques used by bassist you love and see if you can replicate them, while maintaining the ergonomics, and also try to understand why it is that they use that particular technique for the music they make.

 

[CT Corvette]

Thanks everyone, this is super helpful!

A lot of this advice jibes with my experience, but I hadn't seen it clearly until reading it from you all. My physical posture has gotten lazy. Because I have spent a lot of time strumming my acoustic guitar over the past few years, I'm now just curling my left hand around the bass next. I'll straighten that out. And in hindsight, the time I improved fastest was when I payed in a jazz band with music and people that were challenging me. Once I have the music down for this audition and hopefully, learn their tunes because I got the gig, I'll get back to challenging myself with music. Also, the idea of a bunch of brief practice sessions throughout the day is perfect, since I work at home these days. I appreciate it... And, I'll definitely get some new gear!

 

[CT Corvette]

Having a good in-person teacher is incredibly helpful because they can curate lessons and practice exercises for your current skill levels and goals. Without a teacher, it can seem like you're floating in a sea of musical info but not really sure what to learn or how to learn it. With 80 Billion music and bass things to learn on the internet, how do you know what you need to know? What's a good order to learn it? Does it apply to your needs as a bassist and musician? A good teacher should give your learning focus and streamline it.

I know not everyone has access to good teachers. So the other thing i'd suggest is:

Pick 1 thing and focus on improving that.

In your post you point out a few areas in your knowledge and skill base that you could improve. So start with one of them, and only one. Don't try to learn all the things at once. Focus on bite-size bits of knowledge and improvements. When you see decent improvements in that, pick the next thing to add to your practice regimen. The key is not overloading yourself and trying to learn it all at once. The other key is not overwhelming yourself, not learning or practicing anything new, and just playing like you always have.

From your post, it seems like you have the biggest reservations about your technique. Maybe focus on that first. I think the biggest thing with technique is making sure you're not using one that will cause injury. Beyond that, the only thing that makes a technique "bad" is if it prevents you from playing the bass line well or in the right style. So maybe start by adjusting your technique to get rid of bad ergonomics. Then start going through different techniques used by bassist you love and see if you can replicate them, while maintaining the ergonomics, and also try to understand why it is that they use that particular technique for the music they make.

Thank you for the thoughtful reply. Also, super helpful!

 

[bigdaddybass12]

1st. you said " though I do rely on patterns more than maybe I should" Patterns are good, especially if you play with a capo junkie like I do.
2nd. Trick to getting better, learn something new. Don't practice the same stuff over and over. (like I do )

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Hey everyone,

I'm beginning to play with bands again after a few year hiatus. As I've been practicing for an audition this weekend, I realize that I haven't improved in a long time. I know the basic scales, chords, and arpeggios, know the fretboard pretty well, though I do rely on patterns more than maybe I should, I have decent timing and a decent ear (none of this am I exceptional at). I think what I lack the most is good technique. For example, even though I know how to play most of the arpeggios I need, I'm not super fluent connecting them from one octave to another. I know scales pretty well, but can get lost sometimes descending them. I'm not a flashy player and don't aspire to be, but I would like to keep improving. So, I'm wondering, specifically and in general, what have you don't to start improving again when you feel like you've plateaued? And I know... practice more... but maybe ya'll can inspire me with some ideas?

Thank you!
Brian

What sort of band? What is their genre (s)? Are you going to need that level of sophistication?

Frankly, I’d be more worried about having the required audition music prepared as best as you can than fretting (no pun intended) of how many multi octave arpeggios you can crank out.

 

[CT Corvette]

What sort of band? What is their genre (s)? Are you going to need that level of sophistication?

Frankly, I’d be more worried about having the required audition music prepared as best as you can than fretting (no pun intended) of how many multi octave arpeggios you can crank out.

I totally agree, and right now I'm working on the six tunes they asked me to prepare. Learning the essence of the original bassline and planning to keep it tight but simple for the audition, since they interpret the tunes they play for their band's instrumentation - not note-for-note covers at all. The genre is rock, blues, classic country, a bit of soul. They seem to pick tunes from a wide range of artists, but focus on tunes that swing a bit. If I get the gig, I'll have a lot to learn, but once I have those tunes down, I'll get back to practicing technique and that's more what I was curious about here. Though... any advice on preparing for an audition is welcome. I've only done this a few times, most of the groups I have played with, I've been part of forming, or it was just friends. I don't know these cats at all, so I'm going in cold.

 

[Shenron]

Hey everyone,

I'm beginning to play with bands again after a few year hiatus. As I've been practicing for an audition this weekend, I realize that I haven't improved in a long time. I know the basic scales, chords, and arpeggios, know the fretboard pretty well, though I do rely on patterns more than maybe I should, I have decent timing and a decent ear (none of this am I exceptional at). I think what I lack the most is good technique. For example, even though I know how to play most of the arpeggios I need, I'm not super fluent connecting them from one octave to another. I know scales pretty well, but can get lost sometimes descending them. I'm not a flashy player and don't aspire to be, but I would like to keep improving. So, I'm wondering, specifically and in general, what have you don't to start improving again when you feel like you've plateaued? And I know... practice more... but maybe ya'll can inspire me with some ideas?

Thank you!
Brian

I think you are already in a very good position, because you already know your strengths and weaknesses. If you feel inspired by improving certain areas of your playing, you already know where you should invest your efforts!

So take those couple of examples you mentioned: connecting arpeggios, descending scales.

I am not really sure you've hit a plateau there, it could simply be that you haven't practiced them in the past beyond a certain level. Just like if I've been at the gym doing an exercise with up to 20kg of weight for years, it doesn't mean 20kg is my plateau... maybe I just never seriously trying 21kg!

You could take an evening or afternoon off for yourself to explore one of those topics in depth. How can you practice "connecting arpeggios" at your current level? Spend that evening investigating the question, trying out different things, and designing exercises for yourself. Then you can decide for example to spend a certain amount of time daily for 2 weeks (or whatever) focusing on those exercises. See if after 2 weeks they worked and improved you, otherwise have another evening off to gather new ideas.

A true plateau is another matter. It's when you really have a feeling that further exercising won't have benefits other than maintaining your current level (on a specific skill, because as a whole there is always more to learn in music if you want). That can only be 'broken' by changing something fundamental about the way you use that skill, and it's not a guarantee that everyone can find a way.

 

[mrcbass]

It's pretty common to hit certain plateaus in some skills, music being one of them. It's hard to know the answer for any given rut. Sometimes ya gotta put your head down and just keep doing reps; other times it helps to not work on something for a few days (or longer) and let your brain figure things out. Sometimes, what you've been struggling on for weeks or months will suddenly be working or at least within reach.

 

[tbz]

I feel like the answer is to just practice.

You highlight that you don’t know scales well enough to play them up and down the neck. Only fix there is to practice until it becomes impossible to forget. It’s honestly much more simple than people acknowledge. But there’s also no shortcuts. You just have to put in the work.

 

[ole Jason]

A more poignant question would be do you feel confident that you know how to practice? Sometimes people get into a routine of their 'practice' just being playing through their band's songs. That's okay but you're probably not really ever going to get much better doing that (but you may sound better playing those songs which is also good). I tend to loosely mentally categorize practice sessions by the goal, so it could be one or more of these things that I focus on:

1. Transcription - This is focused on transcribing solos or melodies and not learning basic recorded bass lines for songs.
2. Repertoire Building - This is focusing on learning song structures and, when applicable, recorded bass lines. If a band is doing a cover song this is where I spend time learning it.
3. Learned Rep Review - This is where I'll play through band songs or use backing tracks to play through stuff I already know to get it sounding better.
4. Exploring/Jamming/Writing - I'm a big fan of just spending time on the instrument in general where this isn't necessarily a goal, could be I'm looking for new ways of connecting chord changes or just making up stuff and writing.
5. Specific Lessons - This is where I'll follow along with a YouTube lesson or whatever for something specific that I want to learn how to apply better.

 

[Five or Six]

The suggestions you've gotten are good. Just learn the songs as they are. Don't try to do more than you have to! Don't look like you just fell off a garbage truck.Take a shower, dress decent, don't drink or smoke before you go, and be early! If you are on time, you are late.

 

[JonathanPDX]

Lots of good stuff here already.

I'll add that transcription can be a great tool to spotlight gaps in your fretboard understanding. Tackling a solo, even if it's not on the bass, might put you in a position where you are forced to consider a pattern you are unfamiliar with in order to play the line properly.

There are two great modern tools for transcription: Audio stretch to slow it down (without changing the pitch of the song) and YouTube to actually see their hands and the positions/movements the artist uses. You don't even need to tackle an entire solo, you can find one little chunk and dive into it.

For example, you might say "Victor Wooten solo? Too hard!" But here's an older video with a pretty straightforward pentatonic lick in E:



If the timestamp is broken, it comes in at about 2:49.

That little line is totally learnable, and likely in a shape you already know. But if you don't, learn it! Then try the next line, and the one after that, and see how far you can go. In this solo he's playing a lot of pentatonic stuff in a few different "boxes" which can be a great exercise to learn with his fingering if you aren't already familiar with those shapes.

Lastly, if you really want to dive into heavy fretboard stuff, it can be really helpful to diagram your scale on paper. I'd map out every note in, say, G major. Then take a highlighter and outline the 4-fret blocks you already know. You'll likely find some blocks between those that are obvious dark areas in your fretboard knowledge, so you can start practicing the scale in that position every day.

You can even look at the scale as going up your E string only (for example, 3rd fret, 5th fret, 7th fret, etc.) and see how many different ways you can play the scale, in a 4-5 fret window, starting from each of those notes. You might be really comfortable starting with your second finger on the root, but how about your first finger? Or your pinky? Can you play through all your triads and arpeggios with these alternate fingerings?

 

[dune]

I learned about this video from the folks here at Talkbass. It has been transformational for me.
Anthony Wellington Clinic: Modes for 4, 5, 6, and 7 String Bass (youtube.com)