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Gibson Apparently In Trouble.

#261
Yep Epiphones are the budgets even though they are not Gibsons. But is a made in china Fender really a fender? Not in my opinion.
i guess there in the hands of new owners!
I just recieved a new midtown and I am amazed with the quality. It was only 100 more than a F american special and came with a hardshell case.
I had only played one other one and it was so so/ not bad, but not great either. I was willing to take the chance and order one and I received one that I consider special. I would have no complaints whatsoever even if it was $2000, but came in at 900 less
 
#262
CrUiSeR said:
Yep Epiphones are the budgets even though they are not Gibsons. But is a made in china Fender really a fender? Not in my opinion.
i guess there in the hands of new owners!
I just recieved a new midtown and I am amazed with the quality. It was only 100 more than a F american special and came with a hardshell case.
I had only played one other one and it was so so/ not bad, but not great either. I was willing to take the chance and order one and I received one that I consider special. I would have no complaints whatsoever even if it was $2000, but came in at 900 less
Click to expand...

I know they have the EB5 and some other models near the mid-range, but when I think of Gibson I think of Les Paul basses, SG basses, or the Thunderbird. They have none of those models in the mid-range really. It's either budget, or expensive.

Epiphone stops at around the 500 dollar price mark, Gibson starts around the 1200 price mark. Where are their offerings in mid-range of 500-1200? Fender has tons of great models in there, like the American Specials or MIM line.

Furthermore, let's say I'm in the market for a 1600 dollar bass. At that price point you can get a American Deluxe model from Fender, or a standard production Gibson. Lots of people I think would choose the Fender just because of the extra bells and whistles. To a lot of folks, the Gibson SG Standard is in a similar feature bracket as the American Standard Fenders, yet the Gibson costs 300-500 dollars more.

At any rate, I'm just saying that one contributing factor to the revenue decline might be because of their lack of offerings at all price points. Those SG Special Basses were a move in the right direction IMO.
 
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#263
500-1200 range they had the faded sg, flying v not long ago,
midtown standard, EB, EB5 and probabaly a couple more I am missing.
The current Les Paul is only 50 more at $1250. The Les Paul standard bass had a msrp of $1499 in 1992.
One can purchase a brand new 50th anniversary TBird in the $1300 something dollar range.
The msrp for a Thunderbird in 1992 was $1249.
$1600 will get ya the new "upgraded" SG standard or midtown custom with bound neck and body and block inlays:D
 
#264
CrUiSeR said:
500-1200 range they had the faded sg, flying v not long ago,
midtown standard, EB, EB5 and probabaly a couple more I am missing.
The current Les Paul is only 50 more at $1250. The Les Paul standard bass had a msrp of $1499 in 1992.
One can purchase a brand new 50th anniversary TBird in the $1300 something dollar range.
The msrp for a Thunderbird in 1992 was $1249.
$1600 will get ya the new "upgraded" SG standard or midtown custom with bound neck and body and block inlays:D
Click to expand...

The Faded and Special (120th Anniversary or whatever) ones were what I was talking about, they don't seem to make them anymore. They should do it again IMO.

Again though, 500-1200 is the range that is lacking. They have the higher end (greater than 1200) and lower end (less than 500) covered.

Does that Midtown sound pretty good? I really want some sort of mudbucker bass. Is it more of an SG sound, or it's own thing?
 
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#265
And Fender has the american special still I am guessing?
Fender imports can't logically be included.
Gibson probably stopped making em for the same reason ernie ball stopped making the sub bass.
 
#266
CrUiSeR said:
And Fender has the american special still I am guessing?
Fender imports can't logically be included.
Click to expand...

Yeah, they are still around and cost about 1000, however Fender has imports available in the 500-800 range too that are excellent instruments. They have a P-bass or a J-bass available at every price point. The folks that have 1200 can find a P-bass for around 1200, the folks that have 700 can find a P-bass for around 700.

Why can't we include imports? Gibson owns Epiphone and Epiphones are imports. Epiphone sells budget Gibson-modeled basses like Squier sells budget Fender-modeled basses.

The point is this. If you want a EB-3/SG bass from the Gibson/Epiphone umbrella, you either pay 300 dollars, or you pay 1300-1600 dollars. I personally think Gibson would benefit greatly by offering some EB-3/SG basses in the mid range of 500-1200 because that attracts more customers.

I'm not saying anything about Gibson quality or how cool their basses are, I am just saying one reason they might be losing money is because other manufacturers are out-competing them with more options for the consumer.
 
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#268
CrUiSeR said:
yes, squier vs epiphone is a valid debate.
MIA vs MIM is not. A maid in America is astronomically higher than a maid in Mexico
;)
Click to expand...

Gibson just needs to make their MIM line so we can compare SOMETHING to Fender's offerings there ;)

How do you like the sound on that Midtown? I wanted one of those SG Faded models back when they were being sold. I could use a mudbucker bass. Is the Midtown sound like the SG Bass or more it's own animal?
 
#269
I know it's mine, but man I am impressed. Saying that, I don't keep basses I don't like, though I've sold 2 that I wished I had back. It quickly rose into my top 3 basses I've ownednot number 1 but maybe number 2.
Get on that neck pickup and you can really feel it, and that is before I plug into the 18"
My point earlier is that it is my opinion Gibson stopped making the faded because there was no profit to be made. I like em for the value and feel, but my plan if I ever get one is to do a custom paint job.
 
#270
silvertone said:
Long story short, I wound up at an offsite Gibson Dinner where they feted there Original Acoustic Instrument Dealers. People who attended included Henry J & Big Joe of Gibson, Stan Jay of Mandolin Bros, Stan Werbin of Elderly and several other important American dealers.

Since I was so low ranking in the midst of all these muckety-mucks at some point during the dinner I openly stated that the Gibson Pricing strategy was ridiculous. From not allowing dealers to publish pricing to just asking crazy and unrealistic prices for Gibson products. (Their mandolins and banjos run from about 8 to 25 grand.) I also said that everyone I know in the Bay Area was running away from anything they madee other than vintage stuff.
Click to expand...

I was good friends with Stan Jay (RIP) growing up as his desk was right at the front entrance to Mandolin Brothers. They used to have a Gibson showroom.

Unfortunately because of dealer agreements, they dropped Gibson a few years ago. I asked Stan as to why:

"What you see hanging is the last of it unless something is coming in used. They've been sending us a bunch of crap that we don't want to sell and forcing us to buy instruments that we don't want and wouldn't normally sell such as lower end Gibsons and Epiphones. We can't order a handful of Les Paul customs and hummingbirds to replace sold inventory, instead we have to place a minimum order that's over a hundred grand. How do they expect me to buy anything from them? "
 
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#274
GeneralElectric said:
I was good friends with Stan Jay (RIP) growing up as his desk was right at the front entrance to Mandolin Brothers. They used to have a Gibson showroom.

Unfortunately because of dealer agreements, they dropped Gibson a few years ago. I asked Stan as to why:

"What you see hanging is the last of it unless something is coming in used. They've been sending us a bunch of crap that we don't want to sell and forcing us to buy instruments that we don't want and wouldn't normally sell such as lower end Gibsons and Epiphones. We can't order a handful of Les Paul customs and hummingbirds to replace sold inventory, instead we have to place a minimum order that's over a hundred grand. How do they expect me to buy anything from them? "
Click to expand...

Gibson has been doing this dealer purchase agreement for decades. Now so is Fender, and even Peavey. Corporate hubris is undercutting the steady, incremental, moderate increase in income that would keep everybody afloat. The .com business model does not suit all business types.
 
#276
While some Gibson products have became more expensive, this is to be expected.
Check out the msrp I listed above. One can buy a new Epiphone viola for quite a bit less than when they were introduced more than 20 years ago. One could also buy a Fodera for $2000 30 years ago.
Gibson has been WAY more than fair on their bass prices.
 

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