Gibson's PR Damage Control

[-Asdfgh-]

I think one of Gibson's issues is that some of the set neck Epiphones (just got one for £160 used) were (MIK) or possibly still are (CIC) good enough it might be hard to justify the price premium of a Gibson given reports of recent QC. Heck, a friend picked up a used set neck Harley Benton for £80 for when he doesn't want to take his Gibson LP to a gig and says it's not at all bad

 

[retslock]

I had an SG guitar that I loved and regret selling but I never ever wanted any kind of Gibson bass. They just don’t do it for me.

 

[Koshchei]

Including the official Gibson upper management dress code, homeless douchebags in cheesy leather jackets. See, we have leather jackets and greasy hair and bum beards to show that we're cool.

"Time to talk to the plebs... pass me the one with all the zippers."

 

[Koshchei]

And butt hurt....tons of it.

Gibson has an a****** that made a video. Which was promptly taken down.

I would wager 85% of any company in the world has an a****** or two working for them.

Mark Agnesi isn't Gibson. Before the video, who thought about him when the name Gibson was mentioned ? Not me.

When I hear the name Gibson I think of all the great players who chose Gibson instruments to rock, as well as my favorite Gibson models. Like the Les Paul Jr. Best solid body design of all time in my opinion.

And as far as quality control, is Gibson the only major player in the musical instrument game that has had issues from time to time ?

Also, besides Rickenbacker and Gibson, is there any other major US builder of electric guitars and basses that hasn't stooped to putting their name on offshore built instruments ?

View attachment 3465302

1) Mark Agnesi IS Gibson in this case. JC repeated everything Agnesi said, albeit in MBA double-speak in that awful Press Release.
2) Gibson has a great heritage to be sure. It's a pity to see it being debased.
3) Gibson has made good guitars from time to time. The majority of their output has been awful since the 70s (early 90s and early 00s Gibsons are legitimately good though).
4a) Rickenbacker isn't major; they're Kiesel-sized (another company who don't offshore).
4b) Probably 90% of what Gibson sells is made offshore. Ironically, Epiphones are a lot better than Gibsons these days too.

 

[davelowell2]

Did you not see the Agnesi video of him warning every guitar maker that Gibson is going to sue them?

I hadn’t seen it, thanks for posting.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

I think one of Gibson's issues is that some of the set neck Epiphones (just got one for £160 used) were (MIK) or possibly still are (CIC) good enough it might be hard to justify the price premium of a Gibson given reports of recent QC. Heck, a friend picked up a used set neck Harley Benton for £80 for when he doesn't want to take his Gibson LP to a gig and says it's not at all bad

Yep, and not just Epiphone either. I bought a Gibson because I've always wanted to own an actual made in America Gibson, and I'm quite pleased with it, but this sleazy Trademark Trollery makes me not want to own a Gibson. This feeling is what Gibson is destroying with their behavior. For practical reasons, the only real reason to buy a Gibson is if one wants made in America AND the Gibson name, for there are better quality instruments (including made in America) available at better prices.

PRS: Everything that touches the strings is God and must be perfection.
Gibson: WE are God, nothing matters but Our name, and thou shalt obey. And also purchase Our golf shirts, because We are a lifestyle and only if thee art fully accessorized with Our related merchandise canst thine pitiable existence worship truly at Our elite divine feet.

 

[Picton]

That, to me, is the key here. Companies like PRS long ago narrowed the quality gap, and Gibbo seems blind to that.

Gibson is behaving as though their instruments are superior to everyone else’s. This MIGHT have been true at one time, in acoustics and especially in archtops, but there’s so much competition now at such a high standard that Gibson, now, is... “just another guitar company,” quality-wise.

They seem to be having trouble accepting that.

So, aided by their many fans, they’re resting on their past “heritage.” And reminding everyone that it’s THEIR heritage, dammit.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

1) Mark Agnesi IS Gibson in this case. JC repeated everything Agnesi said, albeit in MBA double-speak in that awful Press Release.
2) Gibson has a great heritage to be sure. It's a pity to see it being debased.
3) Gibson has made good guitars from time to time. The majority of their output has been awful since the 70s (early 90s and early 00s Gibsons are legitimately good though).
4a) Rickenbacker isn't major; they're Kiesel-sized (another company who don't offshore).
4b) Probably 90% of what Gibson sells is made offshore. Ironically, Epiphones are a lot better than Gibsons these days too.

The Epiphone I got does need a little work as a couple of the frets at the dusty end are a shade proud of the fingerboard at each end. So I'll heat those up and tap them down a bit, level and crown and tweak the action. Otherwise it seems OK apart from either master tone being standard or the previous owner having modified things. Would I get anything better from a real Gibson?

Even given wage disparity I feel that Gibson should be able to make a decent guitar for the price, so I presume there are issues with culture, training, tools, or even pay and retention. Or maybe all of those.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Gibson is in damage control mode after the creepy Mark Agnesi debacle and the tidal wave of bad karma that they have brought upon themselves with the Dean lawsuit.

(NASHVILLE, TN, Monday, July 1, 2019) Since emerging from bankruptcy less than a year ago, Gibson has made significant progress in the key areas that matter most to guitarists around the world. With a clear focus on quality , a new collection of Originaland Modern guitars , and a more confident Dealer and Artist base , the new team at Gibson have proven they can listen to the market to create new solutions. But there is still more work to be done and the new team at Gibson remain on a mission.

While new management is building on the legacy, quality and craftsmanship that guitarists have come to love and expect from Gibson , they will also continue to manage and attempt to resolve the conflicts of the past .

Apart from inheriting an iconic brand, the team have also inherited a host of challenges that they realized would take time to achieve proper resolution. A clear challenge has been in the area of brand protection, where a legacy of legal issues exist with both legitimate companies in the industry infringing on iconic trademarks and with illegitimate entities attempting to counterfeit, ‘knock-off’ and pretend to be Gibson in the market.

Over the past eight months, the team have successfully dealt with over 4,500 counterfeit and ‘knock-off’ guitars coming from overseas that were clearly designed to confuse the consumer into thinking they were buying a real Gibson . Since November (2018), there have been dozens of counterfeit website ‘take-downs,’ also designed to confuse the guitarist into thinking they were entering a legitimate, official website. On a weekly basis, Gibson receives multiple queries and concerns from guitarists mislead into purchasing what they thought was a genuine Gibson that turned out to be counterfeit. Unfortunately, this is a very real dynamic that brands, like Gibson and other iconic brands, need to deal with on a regular basis. The main area of brand protection on these types of issues is with trademark ownership, understanding, and assertion. Hence our recent attempts to communicate our position, which was predominantly focused on these rogue overseas players in the market. If left unchecked, these situations can lead to continued consumer confusion and can ultimately affect the integrity of an entire industry .
Recently, there has been a wide spectrum of both support and criticism with the approach that has been taken by Gibson in the market regarding brand protection. While there are clear lessons to be learned around tone and legal explanations, the past few weeks have provided a ‘real time’ opportunity for Gibson to start making the pivot from less legal leverage to more industry collaboration , with appropriate levels of awareness.

With regards to other guitar brands and companies in the marketplace, Gibson has filed specific lawsuits over the past several years with the intention of protecting its originaltrademark(s) rights and to avoid consumer confusion in the market . All of the recent attention on the few lawsuits in process stem from several years of legal action initiated well before the new leadership arrived in November of 2018 . With specific regards to the inherited and ongoing legal dynamic with Dean Guitars, the new Gibsonteam have made several attempts to communicate with them directly to avoid a prolonged legal battle . Gibson has genuine intentions of constructive resolutionthat could be beneficial to both sides.

This recent situation has led the team to re-evaluate their approach going forward with the intention of finding more constructive solutions to managing brand protection in the industry . Over the past few weeks Gibson has made significant progress inreducing counterfeit ‘attacks’ and they have entered into creative collaboration agreements with key boutique guitar makers and other related industry parties . A clear indication of their intentions going forward.

“I am proud of the progress we have made with our attention to quality, with the launch of the new collections, and with our renewed engagement to our Gibson authorized dealer base. At the same time, we acknowledge there are still legacy challenges to solve going forward, especially around brand protection and market solutions,” says James ‘JC’ Curleigh , the new President and CEO of Gibson . “It is time to make the modern-day shift from confrontation towards collaboration, whilst still protecting our brands, and we are committed to making this happen starting now”.

###



For Gibson , contact:

Libby Coffey
PRIME PR GROUP, INC.
E: [email protected]

Words are alway nice to hear, but show me in action. Until they prove what they say, this post has no meaning.

 

[Tom Gallo]

Agnesi was that kinda cool dude who worked at Norm's and show us a lot of interesting instruments. Sadly, now, most people are gonna remember him as that guy from the Gibson warning video.

 

[Bander]

If the unaware were to suddenly become aware of the legal bullying that Gibson is perpetrating, things might be very different.

Crusade away!

Hi jhol111964

5 minutes is a long time! I hope they read the Gibson statement...

Wise(b)ass

I can't say in 50+ years of instrument usage and collecting, I've ever read a statement from any maker. Why would I?

 

[Wisebass]

Hi Koshchei

Mark Agnesi IS Gibson in this case.

Poor Marc!

I did not know him. After watching some videos (bashing! videos),

I found out, that he's shredding a cool heavy guitar! (on copies )

He was certainly not himself!

Sad!

Wise(b)ass

 

[HubbardsFate]

Gibson: WE are God, nothing matters but Our name, and thou shalt obey. And also purchase Our golf shirts, because We are a lifestyle and only if thee art fully accessorized with Our related merchandise canst thine pitiable existence worship truly at Our elite divine feet.

Also, thou art all too stupid to know how to tune a guitar; yea, verily, here are some robo-tuners for thee, so that thy pitiful pea-brains aren't too taxed...

 

[Clark Dark]

Growing up in Philly (the 60's) there were many music stores one could visit and plenty of quality guitars and basses available to check out. Gibson and Fender were frontrunners. In town and the nearby suburbs there was Zapf's, Cintiolli's, 8th Street Music, Medley Music (Ardmore) Studio 42 (West Chester) and they all did well.
Then came the 70's and the boutique builders introduction. Gibson stayed pat and relied on their reputation and lineup as did Fender pretty much except for releasing some artists series like the Jimi, the Malmsteen, etc.
Suddenly one day I go into a store and see less and less Gibson's and ask what's up?? I was told that Gibson was not going to support the store anymore and I would find their guitars and basses in the online stores now i.e. Musicians Friend, Sweet Water, etc. and the prices skyrocketed from ~$2K to ~$5K for the same LP guitars. (Fender followed suit but long afterwards). During Henry's time at Gibson we saw those dreadful self adjusting tuners which Gibson touted as "innovative" LOL. Their decline is/was due to a self inflicted shot in the foot, nothing else.
Heritage makes a better Paul, a better 335/345, uses the crown MOP inlays on their fingerboards and all the body shapes and has a custom shop that will do each and every Gibson ever made. It seems Gibson is again foot shot, can they go after Dean while in Kalamazoo there's a company that's

 

[40Hz]

Folks that have no intention of buying a Gibson, spend lots of time posting to the pleasure of others who have no intention of buying a Gibson. Meanwhile, Gibson buyers are spending about 5 minutes picking out a guitar, and not reading said posts.

Speak for yourself. I’ve played a Gibson bass as my main instrument since 1974 and currently own four Gibson basses as well as a few Gibson guitars. I’ve supported them through thick and thin and corrected what I considered errors or mischaracterizations about them on this forum so often I’ve become seen as an apologist of sorts.

By the same token, I’m also one of Gibson’s toughest critics when they do something I see as either unacceptable or inexcusable. And the reason I’m willing to take them to task despite liking many of their products is because I do care about Gibson quite a lot. I think they're capable of producing world class instruments and some of the best basses out there. And I doubt there’s anybody on TB who ever wanted to see Gibson succeed and prosper more than I do. So when their management does something I consider harmful to Gibson’s image or business, I speak up. And very loudly.

Which is why I’ll say I’m absolutely disgusted with the long term harm Gibson is doing to itself and the marketplace by taking the shortsighted and misguided course of legal action they’re currently pursuing. Because this is going to turn around and bite them very shortly if the IP litigation nightmare that holds sway in the computer technology and software world is anything to go by.

Gibson let the demon out of the bottle with that move. Even if Gibson folds it won’t matter. The IP legal trolls are already smelling new money and blood. I’m sure they’ve already contacted all the big players, and probably most of the smaller ones too. So it’s only a matter of time before it’s all going to come back home to roost for Gibson as well.

 

[40Hz]

Gibson has an a****** that made a video. Which was promptly taken down.

It’s since been established that the Agnesi video went out with Gibson’s approval. Which makes it a corporate communique. As in: it’s official.

So it’s not a simple matter of one asshat being responsible for it, or going off on his own, as you seem to be saying.

 

[Mike Whitfield]

Speak for yourself. I’ve played a Gibson bass as my main instrument since 1974 and currently own four Gibson basses as well as a few Gibson guitars. I’ve supported them through thick and thin and corrected what I considered errors or mischaracterizations about them on this forum so often I’ve become seen as an apologist of sorts.

By the same token, I’m also one of Gibson’s toughest critics when they do something I see as either unacceptable or inexcusable. And the reason I’m willing to take them to task despite liking many of their products is because I do care about Gibson quite a lot. I think they're capable of producing world class instruments and some of the best basses out there. And I doubt there’s anybody on TB who ever wanted to see Gibson succeed and prosper more than I do. So when their management does something I consider harmful to Gibson’s image or business, I speak up. And very loudly.

Which is why I’ll say I’m absolutely disgusted with the long term harm Gibson is doing to itself and the marketplace by taking the shortsighted and misguided course of legal action they’re currently pursuing. Because this is going to turn around and bite them very shortly if the IP litigation nightmare that holds sway in the computer technology and software world is anything to go by.

Gibson let the demon out of the bottle with that move. Even if Gibson folds it won’t matter. The IP legal trolls are already smelling new money and blood. I’m sure they’ve already contacted all the big players, and probably most of the smaller ones too. So it’s only a matter of time before it’s all going to come back home to roost for Gibson as well.

Well said on both posts. It also speaks volumes about the moral quality of Gibson management that they’d pull that horrible Agnesi video and leave him swinging as though he’d gone rogue when in fact he was merely executing Gibson’s plan to transform from premium instrument maker to premium troll. That said, I only own one Gibson instrument and consider it a fine guitar at a reasonable price - but I won’t be buying another until at least Gibson’s current management is gone.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

That, to me, is the key here. Companies like PRS long ago narrowed the quality gap, and Gibbo seems blind to that.

Gibson is behaving as though their instruments are superior to everyone else’s. This MIGHT have been true at one time, in acoustics and especially in archtops, but there’s so much competition now at such a high standard that Gibson, now, is... “just another guitar company,” quality-wise.

They seem to be having trouble accepting that.

So, aided by their many fans, they’re resting on their past “heritage.” And reminding everyone that it’s THEIR heritage, dammit.

These days if I was in the market for a premium quality dual humbucker guitar (and I wish I was rather than just the cheaper end) I would go straight to PRS as I perceive it to be the higher quality manufacturer. I'd only really look at a Gibson if I wanted to be in a Led Zep tribute band with authentic gear, but I'm never going to fool anyone that I'm a 25 year old Page so an Epiphone would be fine.

 

[ajkula66]

That said, I only own one Gibson instrument and consider it a fine guitar at a reasonable price - but I won’t be buying another until at least Gibson’s current management is gone.

My fear is that by the time the current management is gone, the Gibson brand might become a mere shell and there will be nothing left actually worth buying...I do hope that my fears are unfounded, though.

These days if I was in the market for a premium quality dual humbucker guitar (and I wish I was rather than just the cheaper end) I would go straight to PRS as I perceive it to be the higher quality manufacturer.

I started playing PRS guitars in the mid 80s and have been a big fan ever since. Having said that, they are not Gibsons. They are a thing of their own, with a vibe of their own which one could legitimately prefer to one associated with Gibbys. Secondly, PRS' most intriguing offerings - both then and now - come with a very hefty price tag which puts most of them out of my reach. If one wants a real Gibson vibe with a different name on the headstock, Heritage is the way to go IMO.

 

[-Asdfgh-]

My fear is that by the time the current management is gone, the Gibson brand might become a mere shell and there will be nothing left actually worth buying...I do hope that my fears are unfounded, though.



I started playing PRS guitars in the mid 80s and have been a big fan ever since. Having said that, they are not Gibsons. They are a thing of their own, with a vibe of their own which one could legitimately prefer to one associated with Gibbys. Secondly, PRS' most intriguing offerings - both then and now - come with a very hefty price tag which puts most of them out of my reach. If one wants a real Gibson vibe with a different name on the headstock, Heritage is the way to go IMO.

I'm a Johnny come lately to guitars with humbucker and I'm still unsure if it's for me, but I have the cheapie version. I seem to have made a mess of the new body on my Strat copy and whilst I've improved the ceramic pickup sound with alnico slugs so the Gibson type thing might stay with a bigsby knockoff and some coil splits.

And yes, PRS are a bit different but it was the best point of comparison I could think of for something that isn't basically a copy.