Gig-worthy Fretless 5, Under $1000?

[rutrho]

A used GWB35 will get you the closest, a schecter stiletto 5 fretless will be close as well. I prefer the GWB35 to the stiletto, but both sound killer. I think the biggest thing that might be a deal breaker are the the string spacing on the gwb as its tighter than other 5 string basses I've played.

With any fretless bass you'll have to spend some time playing it and adjusting it to fully get it dialed in to your preferences for intonation, action, relief, nut adjustment, pup height and all that stuff but I'm sure you know that.

What are your tonal goals? Whats your play style like?
I think some of the bigger issues faced by trying to find a decent mid level fretless is so few of them end up in a place that we can test out. The GWB35 is the only fretless 5 I've seen out in the world and after I played it, I bought one used from another TB member.

 

[lowendmafia]

Thanks, I feel like the GW35 needs some upgrades, what do you think? From what I can gather from the internet its a CNC'd basswood body with a heavier finish and stock Ibanaz electronics and potentially a thicker neck that the more expensive models. Obviously I'm not going to get the Japan built one, but the model in between the 2 seems to be right in that range I would pay.

A used GWB35 will get you the closest, a schecter stiletto 5 fretless will be close as well. I prefer the GWB35 to the stiletto, but both sound killer. I think the biggest thing that might be a deal breaker are the the string spacing on the gwb as its tighter than other 5 string basses I've played.

With any fretless bass you'll have to spend some time playing it and adjusting it to fully get it dialed in to your preferences for intonation, action, relief, nut adjustment, pup height and all that stuff but I'm sure you know that.

What are your tonal goals? Whats your play style like?
I think some of the bigger issues faced by trying to find a decent mid level fretless is so few of them end up in a place that we can test out. The GWB35 is the only fretless 5 I've seen out in the world and after I played it, I bought one used from another TB member.

 

[dkelley]

For me, I was looking for a 5 string frettless that got close to the sound of a DB. I felt it could blend well with a jazz trio in a small room.
Ibanez SRH505F Fretless - Natural Browned Burst Flat

My carvin, wiht it's piezo pickups in bridge, can do upright tone really well assuming you're willing to do manual palm muting or stuff a cloth under string by bridge to increase the initial attack and decay while letting it sustain still a long enough time to sound like an upright.

I also owned a 5 string USA EBMM sum 5 string fretless (very rare), that was pretty amazing at doing an upright tone to my surprise. In fact it was what it did best - I didn't get the mid forward electric tone I was looking for so I sold it years ago. But it was a truly excellent instrument, as you'd expect. With tape wound string you'd believe it was an upright if you played it in the right style.

 

[Rojd]

Thanks, I feel like the GW35 needs some upgrades, what do you think? From what I can gather from the internet its a CNC'd basswood body with a heavier finish and stock Ibanaz electronics and potentially a thicker neck that the more expensive models. Obviously I'm not going to get the Japan built one, but the model in between the 2 seems to be right in that range I would pay.

I'm considering the GWB35 for a fretless among others and would like to know as well.

 

[dkelley]

Here is the problem, and if you hang around TB long enough, you know what I'm saying. If I were to have asked the question and said "I'm absolutely opposed to bass brand X, someone would come on and try to turn the thread into a fight about whether or not that is a good brand or how is "gigable." I get it, you can play shows with anything, but at my level there's a big difference between pro gear and non-pro gear. I'll give you a couple of examples:
My wife and I were at a bar last night and the guitar player in the band was using a Line 6 Variax and a Pod XT live. This sounded absolutely horrible and while the audience members couldn't decipher that's what sounded bad they definitely knew they were watching an amateur performance.

Furthermore, not to pick on Line 6 (I use a Helix every show), I fired a back up guitar player last year because he refused to upgrade his gear from the XT 500 and a cheap Stratocaster. The guy had talent, but his cheap gear was making my band sound worse. So the idea that anything can be gigable just isn't true.

And yet, some of the world's greatest have gigged with that exact line 6 setup on major tours for certain songs and had excellent results. I won't mention names - it's all googleable, and it sounds amazing in the right hands with the right configuration.

Anyhow - here's my take on what separates pro level instruments from non pro.

I have found that playing stability and reliability are the biggest differences between pro and non pro gear. You can get great tone out of cheap or expensive gear - but the cheap stuff won't stand up. However - you have to understand what it is about the cheap stuff that is causing the problem.

Cheap pot metal hardware? that isn't going to do for major touring/gigging work.

Cheap pots and switches that get scratchy? that won't do.

Neck stability while touring in different environments? that is very helpful, although not always doable (and pricey axes suffer from this issue too).

Tuning stability is critical.

There are hundreds of instruments you can buy brand new from major manufacturers that pass those criteria (better quality hardware etc than what I listed above), and have great tone.

One thing you get from pro instruments is plecked frets, filed fret ends, quality nut, sometimes even a properly cut nut with useful height slots that aren't too high.

However if you're a pro, you know already that every bass you buy will require a pro setup and fretwork before you go out on tour.

If it's fretless, you don't have that particular worry, which is a nice bonus.

So you have lots of great suggestions, and every one of them would do you really well if it is 5 string and fretless and such.

Now the tough part is finding all of these to test drive!

Have fun

 

[JRA]

the idea that anything can be gigable just isn't true.

but it is: relative to 'within reason' for any particular player. you are a particular player, so: your 'within reason' suits you.

I answered the first guys question and he didn't like what I said and wanted to turn this into a "you don't need a good bass to gig" type thread. Don't believe me, later on in the thread he told me I need to "seek motivation," not a new bass.

i'm your "first guy!" and your huckleberry!

unfortunately, per your statement: i didn't say, imply, or want what you're stating --- that "you don't need a good bass to gig." sorry, junior! it just ain't so. i have never, ever, ever made that statement on TB or anywhere else in life. i have mocked other posers for gear-snobbery, but i have always preached "competence" (chops/instruments/gear). my take on the subject is that price is not always a measure of competence. and now here you are, shopping on a budget, finding out some great ideas and deals on axes that others play...even some of us "pros."

per the "seek motivation" comment: you were whining about never having the poop to pick up your $9000 ax and play it.

lowendmafia : i was attempting to help you. i think you misinterpreted my motive for asking questions...defensive: from the git

but: i'm genuinely glad that you're getting useful information here...even "pros" can learn! good luck with your fretless choice(s)...you've gotten some great suggestions!

The rest of the stuff is why I never post in the basses forum ever.

you're kidding, this has been a great thread! entertaining in every way! and: i'm sure = very useful for others who are fleshing out their own 'fretless urges'! i only play fretless so i'm a cheerleader them. all good stuff!

 

[Seedpicker]

interested to hear from anyone who's tried tapes on the 505F

I'll start a new thread soon. I thought there was a video I found on it where a reviewer had the same idea but I can't find it now. I find the flat wounds to be twangy on the fretboard. The reviewers probably have it set up and dialed in perfectly so maybe I'll wait and see if I can get it better once it's my instrument to mess with versus just playing it at the shop. But I'm pretty keen on the idea of doing a string switch.

 

[lowendmafia]

Look Man, whatever your intent is/was (and perhaps I am inferring tone), you are still attempting to talk down to me. You literally just called me "junior." This is why there is such a disconnect between older pros and younger ones. We feel like we have some level of experience that needs to be imparted on the other and that may not be true. I will admit, I have a hard time dealing with older hobbyist type bassists on the internet because I have done pretty much anything that anyone has done from a live music performance perspective (huge crowds, arena gigs, crazy bars, dead casinos, you name it). I have also studied under legends like Todd Johnson and Juan Alderete. So, with the information I gave, I felt that it was plenty to get my point across. If you spend 2 minutes on this forum, you can find a thread where someone asks a legitimate question and another member comes in and starts preaching something to the contrary because people love to fight on the internet.

I will apologize for coming off as snobbish or dismissive, but I stick with my point that a $112 Amazon P bass is not a pro-level, gigable instrument.

but it is: relative to 'within reason' for any particular player. you are a particular player, so: your 'within reason' suits you.


i'm your "first guy!" and your huckleberry!

unfortunately, per your statement: i didn't say, imply, or want what you're stating --- that "you don't need a good bass to gig." sorry, junior! it just ain't so. i have never, ever, ever made that statement on TB or anywhere else in life. i have mocked other posers for gear-snobbery, but i have always preached "competence" (chops/instruments/gear). my take on the subject is that price is not always a measure of competence. and now here you are, shopping on a budget, finding out some great ideas and deals on axes that others play...even some of us "pros."

per the "seek motivation" comment: you were whining about never having the poop to pick up your $9000 ax and play it.

lowendmafia : i was attempting to help you. i think you misinterpreted my motive for asking questions...defensive: from the git

but: i'm genuinely glad that you're getting useful information here...even "pros" can learn! good luck with your fretless choice(s)...you've gotten some great suggestions!


you're kidding, this has been a great thread! entertaining in every way! and: i'm sure = very useful for others who are fleshing out their own 'fretless urges'! i only play fretless so i'm a cheerleader them. all good stuff!

 

[lowendmafia]

I genuinely appreciate everyone who has taken the time to weigh in on this subject. The information on this thread is extremely valuable to me (and maybe others) and has given me a lot to consider.

 

[Koshchei]

Thanks, I feel like the GW35 needs some upgrades, what do you think? From what I can gather from the internet its a CNC'd basswood body with a heavier finish and stock Ibanaz electronics and potentially a thicker neck that the more expensive models. Obviously I'm not going to get the Japan built one, but the model in between the 2 seems to be right in that range I would pay.

The 205 is the same as the 1005 from a purely functional perspective. It differs in that it doesn't have threaded inserts, allen-keyed bolts, or the ebonol fingerboard (uses ebony). I like mine alot, but recommend care when you take it out of your house because the body is basically unfinished, and swamp ash is ridiculously soft (in perspective, the bass weighs LESS than my kid did when he was born).

 

[iriegnome]

Seriously though, my Peavey has been all over on stage and it sounds and plays extremely well. I have also gigged with my Modulus Genesis 5 string fretless. ON both ends of the spectrum. I paid $52 for my Peavey and $1700 for my Modulus. Both did the job extremely well. I also am a very firm believer in a professional set up to achieve maximum playability as well as fit. I also admit to being a bit of a gear snob, but what I don't like millions love. So to each their own. Always only ever offer suggestions. What works for me may be the worst ever to someone else, but unlike many, I am fully ok with that.

 

[rutrho]

Thanks, I feel like the GW35 needs some upgrades, what do you think? From what I can gather from the internet its a CNC'd basswood body with a heavier finish and stock Ibanaz electronics and potentially a thicker neck that the more expensive models. Obviously I'm not going to get the Japan built one, but the model in between the 2 seems to be right in that range I would pay.

I'm considering the GWB35 for a fretless among others and would like to know as well.

I replaced the nut on mine and cleaned up the nut pocket, cleaned out the ramp and put new foam in it... mines an '07 so its got a lot of wear and tear on it, I play with SS rounds and its been holding up well. The finish is starting to get worn through in a couple places from where I rest and rub my arm/hand on the bass and from playing it a LOT.

The previous owner upgraded the preamp to a Bartolini NTBT preamp and and a Bartolini pickup and it sounds killer. I had to re-dress and clean up a lot of the wiring but thats not a problem.
It has an active/passive switch on the volume knob and bass/treble on the other with a series/parallel/single switch. Lot of different tone options when its set up that way. The stock GWB35 I played didn't sound as good as the one I have.

Mine has proven to be a very stable bass across the seasons and different ambient humidity levels. I'm playing Pro-steels in a medium gauge in drop A tuning on the thing too. The neck is thinner than all of the other 5's I've played and it feels great to me. About the only thing I want to change or upgrade now is to replace the ramp with one made of some sort of hardwood instead of plastic.

 

[lowendmafia]

Thanks for the info, this is all very helpful. You said a lot that solidified that the 35 needs upgrades to be useable by me. Sounds like you got a killer deal there.

I replaced the nut on mine and cleaned up the nut pocket, cleaned out the ramp and put new foam in it... mines an '07 so its got a lot of wear and tear on it, I play with SS rounds and its been holding up well. The finish is starting to get worn through in a couple places from where I rest and rub my arm/hand on the bass and from playing it a LOT.

The previous owner upgraded the preamp to a Bartolini NTBT preamp and and a Bartolini pickup and it sounds killer. I had to re-dress and clean up a lot of the wiring but thats not a problem.
It has an active/passive switch on the volume knob and bass/treble on the other with a series/parallel/single switch. Lot of different tone options when its set up that way. The stock GWB35 I played didn't sound as good as the one I have.

Mine has proven to be a very stable bass across the seasons and different ambient humidity levels. I'm playing Pro-steels in a medium gauge in drop A tuning on the thing too. The neck is thinner than all of the other 5's I've played and it feels great to me. About the only thing I want to change or upgrade now is to replace the ramp with one made of some sort of hardwood instead of plastic.

 

[Eddie LeBlanc]

This was just listed.....
For Sale - Carvin Bunny Brunel BB75F Koa Wings

 

[rutrho]

Thanks for the info, this is all very helpful. You said a lot that solidified that the 35 needs upgrades to be useable by me. Sounds like you got a killer deal there.

I think if you're willing to dig around for a used one and don't mind a little work it'll be a solid player. The gwb205 feels like it has a lot of those upgrades and improvements that mine has seen. So that could be worth it, but if you can get ahold of one locally I'd check it out before discounting it as an option all together.

 

[JRA]

Look Man, whatever your intent is/was (and perhaps I am inferring tone), you are still attempting to talk down to me. You literally just called me "junior." This is why there is such a disconnect between older pros and younger ones. We feel like we have some level of experience that needs to be imparted on the other and that may not be true. I will admit, I have a hard time dealing with older hobbyist type bassists on the internet because I have done pretty much anything that anyone has done from a live music performance perspective (huge crowds, arena gigs, crazy bars, dead casinos, you name it). I have also studied under legends like Todd Johnson and Juan Alderete. So, with the information I gave, I felt that it was plenty to get my point across. If you spend 2 minutes on this forum, you can find a thread where someone asks a legitimate question and another member comes in and starts preaching something to the contrary because people love to fight on the internet. I will apologize for coming off as snobbish or dismissive, but I stick with my point that a $112 Amazon P bass is not a pro-level, gigable instrument.

your experiences, such that you've alluded to them, don't 'outrank' a bunch of us here, and they mean nothing on TB if you can't convey them as interesting or entertaining anecdotes/pearls... or even 'didactic' if you have some knowledge or wisdom to contribute. if you're hesitant about participating, for any reason, that would be wrapped up into your own baggage --- the rest of us can't 'carry that load' for you, thus: the questions i/we might for OPs like yourself who are searching for suggestions. i support a lot of stuff on the forum, but i don't easily suffer fools* --- i'm a retired professional musician with credits, 'deep' experiences, yada yada. big whup! it means nothing here if it can't be shared in some positive way. if you want to compare 'career size', PM me and we can play that game without offending others...

i'm not going to run this into the ground: you were defensive from the git and i ran out of patience with it. but i'm glad you have more info than that with which you started (the thread) = one of the cooler possibilities around this joint! good luck with your fretless quest! it would be great if you shared your next fretless NBD with us!


* pushing 70: not enough time for it!

 

[lowendmafia]

Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.

your experiences, such that you've alluded to them, don't 'outrank' a bunch of us here, and they mean nothing on TB if you can't convey them as interesting or entertaining anecdotes/pearls... or even 'didactic' if you have some knowledge or wisdom to contribute. if you're hesitant about participating, for any reason, that would be wrapped up into your own baggage --- the rest of us can't 'carry that load' for you, thus: the questions for OPs like yourself. i support a lot of stuff on the forum, but i don't easily suffer fools* --- i'm a retired professional musician with credits, 'deep' experiences, yada yada. big whup! it means nothing here if it can't be shared in some positive way. if you want to compare 'career size', PM me and we can play that game without offending others...

i'm not going to run this into the ground: you were defensive from the git and i ran out of patience with it. but i'm glad you have more info than that with which you started (the thread) = one of the cooler possibilities around this joint! good luck with your fretless quest! it would be great if you shared your next fretless NBD with us!


* pushing 70: not enough time for it!

 

[JRA]

Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.

you're welcome. thanks, you too!

 

[kesslari]

@JRA and @lowendmafia , time to knock it off.

 

[JRA]