Gigging thoughts after 30 years playing live

[Parzival]

If only #4 worked.. LOL.

#6 - ignore the keys wandering left hand that stomps all over [your/the] bass lines - cuz they think they're concert pianists!

I'm dealing w/ #6 in a wedding band I'm working with. Going to come to a head and get addressed at next "rehearsal" this week.

I love keyboards but hate keyboardists. Funny, isn't it?

 

[kbarboza4]

I don't know where to begin other than that technique and gear are the primary components of achieving great tone and then one can tweak things a bit to each particular space to optimize tone for the room.

I do highly recommend keeping EQ settings on amps as close to flat as possible and personally only keep basses that sound great with a relatively flat setting. It is not helpful to play basses that require massive EQ adjustments to sound good especially when considering a gig where you are sending a DI signal to the Front of House to come through a larger PA system. I want that engineer to set his EQ on the bass channel of the board to flat, turn up the fader, and have a great sound to work with from there with minimal needs to add or subtract EQ.

I don't think the OP was asking for advice though...rather asking if others share his frustration?

Here is a recent recording recorded directly into the board with little to no EQ...I like this tone for this style of music (I play many styles with many different artists) and as per usual do not have any trouble 'cutting through' or supporting the music imho.

Sounds good man! Yeah, nice insights. You're right, playing a bass and amp that need only minor tweaks keeps you from trying to "polish a turd" live.
To the OP: I think playing more challenging spaces (especially bar rooms) require some frequency cutting to get you in that "beefy but still cuts" space. You described booming bass on tunes like brown eyed girl and can't stop the feeling. Both songs in C (or B if you're down a half step). That frequency (130/260) is a common boom frequency in smaller venues. Start with using your filter knob on the clarius to notch that out (with the EQ flat) and play a C to see if it helped. If it ain't that note, find the boomiest note on your axe and sweep the knob til you hit it.

Lots of people have said stage volume. I agree with that too, for sure.

 

[faulknersj]

Lots of people have said stage volume. I agree with that too, for sure.

I haven’t read much through this so I don’t know what people’s take on stage volume is here, but in my experience one of the best ways to get a great bass tone is to make sure you are loud enough to be heard clearly.

Of course you don’t want to be ‘too loud’ lol but good tone doesn’t happen when we are ‘too soft.’

To go a step further, in smaller or medium sized venues, if I don’t like the sound the FOH Engineer is dialing in for me through the FOH PA…I’ll turn up so that he backs me out and I can get the sound I want.

I’ve played funk gigs where dudes dial me in so I sound like the bass player of Korn (nothing wrong with that if that’s your thing or the style you are playing) and I’m just not having that lol!

I feel bad for drummers who want their kicks to have that classic 70’s sound like a basketball bouncing…but get the Lars from Metallica treatment with waaaaay too much treble and attack…

Lucky for us…we can just crank the amp in that situation a bit…

 

[DJ Bebop]

Stage volume, especially from drums, kills good live music sound in rooms the size most of us play in. The best sounding bands I’ve heard lately use IEMs, no amps, and an electronic drum kit.

The electronic drum kit is the hardest to socialize, which is a shame. Live drums sound like crap in any room that wasn’t expressly built to make live drums sound good. The stage volume is by nature completely dry, so your band plays all night with dry drums that sound nothing at all like people expect or want them to sound.

Current electronic kits sound way better than they used to (even the cymbals) and as a bonus you can change up your drum kit sounds from song to song. No dry stage volume to compete with everything else and the FOH has total volume control.

My son used to run sound for a band like that. A wedding corporate band affair.

All was IEM and DI'd with electronic drums.
If an old person came to him and asked if he could get the band to play quieter, you know, "can you turn down the band?" He could, grab the master fader and turn down the whole sugaree and the band played on like nothing happened.

 

[L. L. Elwood]

I can't stand having wooly or undefined tone live. I've spent a LOT of time and effort to try and avoid that.. it just bums me out to the point that I don't enjoy playing live at all. I've done a ton of gigs over about the same time span as well. Most have been casuals, corporate or bar/restaurant gigs. A few big stages sprinkled in here and there. The good thing about smaller venues and lower volume is you can control your sound easier.. I've been able to bring "my" sound (at least to my ears) to I'd say about 80% of the gigs I've played on. Most of the gigs have been with actual bass cabinets.. some with PA support some not. I typically decouple my cabinets and that helps immensely being able to eq the space.

 

[Jay Corwin]

Hi all. I’m about 30 years playing live gigs pretty consistently. I haven’t kept track, but I’d estimate I’ve done 3000-4000 gigs. I have played all kinds of music on upright and electric basses. Over the years I have played all kinds of gear and all kinds of basses in many situations. While I like gear and versatility and options, I am also a minimalist and efficient. I don’t usually bring anything to a gig that’s not needed and I don’t usually keep gear I’m not using. I have effectively retired from upright bass. So electric bass only since the pandemic started. I’m wondering if some of my recent thoughts are common among my fellow gig veterans.

Gear matters little. All you need is a quality bass and a quality amp. My rig consists of either a jazz bass or a custom Clement PJ 4 string (90% of the time passive fully rolled to the P), a Darkglass Infinity (almost always clean tube, or very little OD, never all out distortion), an Acoustic Image Clarus SL into a Genzler 212.

Most medium to large indoor venues have terrible acoustics, and are designed for their appearance. That means most places are effectively caverns. In a cavern, my compressor and my only effect (Source C4 synth pedal, rarely kicked on for reasons to follow).

I already know that “bedroom tone” doesn’t translate well to live sound. I do tweak things at home at stage volume and that helps. Here’s the thing. In a cavern, it doesn’t matter that I am using a Jazz bass. Compression has little effect. If the synth patches make it through the rest of the wash of cavernous reverb in the placed then it’s way too much. The best thing is literally a passive P bass EQ’d right. Slapping doesn’t cut through (even on an active jazz bass, when it’s boosted enough, it makes a harsh ugly sound in the place) - It’s quieter than playing finger style. Picking on the rock tunes doesn’t cut through. A 5-string? The low notes (below D) just don’t work in those spaces. All the GASsing I do for new gear is in vain because nothing will be heard through the cavernous wash. All that matters is a reasonable stage volume and just being the low end.

Anyone else experiencing the frustration that it’s all in vain? All we have worked for to get a great tone with great effects isn’t going to matter?

I started feeling this when I had to stop and think......have I been gigging 30 years? Pretty darn close.

Gear matters to the point that it does the job for YOU on the gig. After that, nobody cares about your tone. Maybe other musicians, but how many of them are going to other peoples shows on a regular basis? On upright gigs if I can just hear my self clear enough, I'm happy. 98% of sound people in rock type venues ruin my upright tone, or completely wash me out with subs. It's a relief to finish those gigs.

Bass guitar I feel is lot easier to fuss with on a gig. I've never had a ton of issues there, but I'm a P-bass guy. Not much to go wrong. When I start getting washed out, I dial the tone control up a little and the definition comes back. Never start with it wide open.

I'm lucky to play in a region where there is live music everywhere. However most of these places were never designed to be live music venues. Upright makes it even more of a challenge because of how much room it takes up, and once I'm setup - kinda ain't moving again for a while. So if you can't hear much, you just have to go on instinct. Though I'm thankful we have so many places play in this day and age.

 

[BassGreaser]

How do you like the BF Three10 cab?

It’s in order. Every Tuesday night is blue jams and the house bassist plays through a Two10 model and it sounds killers! Specially with my Hofner…

I can only imagine the Three10 will sound even better.

 

[kbarboza4]

I haven’t read much through this so I don’t know what people’s take on stage volume is here, but in my experience one of the best ways to get a great bass tone is to make sure you are loud enough to be heard clearly.

Of course you don’t want to be ‘too loud’ lol but good tone doesn’t happen when we are ‘too soft.’

To go a step further, in smaller or medium sized venues, if I don’t like the sound the FOH Engineer is dialing in for me through the FOH PA…I’ll turn up so that he backs me out and I can get the sound I want.

I’ve played funk gigs where dudes dial me in so I sound like the bass player of Korn (nothing wrong with that if that’s your thing or the style you are playing) and I’m just not having that lol!

I feel bad for drummers who want their kicks to have that classic 70’s sound like a basketball bouncing…but get the Lars from Metallica treatment with waaaaay too much treble and attack…

Lucky for us…we can just crank the amp in that situation a bit…

Duuuude hahaha I've experienced the combo of fieldy scoop and "and justice for all" too! It's awful. You're playing a Motown tune and it sounds like the rhythm section is hitting a tin shed with a baseball bat.

Anyway by stage volume people were referring to the full band volume. Some rooms just need everyone to play a little quieter and the stage sound clears up.

 

[faulknersj]

Duuuude hahaha I've experienced the combo of fieldy scoop and "and justice for all" too! It's awful. You're playing a Motown tune and it sounds like the rhythm section is hitting a tin shed with a baseball bat.

Anyway by stage volume people were referring to the full band volume. Some rooms just need everyone to play a little quieter and the stage sound clears up.

So glad I’m not alone lol!!! Ha! I’m sure some metal band have dudes mix them like Motown too!!

And yes…for sure…some rooms need volume tamed indeed!

 

[Zbysek]

It’s in order.

I see. Let us know what you think about it once it arrives....

 

[5StringBlues]

After 44 years on the bass, and playing live for the past 30, my feet hurt.

 

[AMJBASS]

I'm about 10 years behind you, but after a couple of decades gigging and at one time pushing 250-300 gigs a year(mostly country, blues, jazz, and theater gigs), there are a few things I've grown to appreciate. Reliable gear is a big one. That means not only can I trust it to function, but that I can rely on it to sound good in whatever situation I find myself in. A mid forward sound is necessary in some situations like the dreaded banquet hall I have also found that mid forward cabinets with less low end(ie// Schroeder, some of the Barefaced line, etc) tend to work well in most situations. Most of my work these days are IEM shows where there is no amp on stage. Or if there is one, its just to look the part. I like passive basses. I find they sit in the mix the way I want. Usually its a P bass or a 5 string Jazz. I always use a compressor. It slots the bass in the mix better. HPF's have been around for a while, but I think now that they've caught on there are some great builders making them. I think they're a must have. You don't necessarily need it all the time, but they are a lifesaver for some rooms. Lots of great experience in this thread! I've enjoyed reading it!

 

[ga_edwards]

The most important thing I've learned about gigging on bass guitar is to find a comfortable one that balances properly, is easy to reach the first fret and doesn't weigh a ton.

 

[s0c9]

I'm about 10 years behind you, but after a couple of decades gigging and at one time pushing 250-300 gigs a year(mostly country, blues, jazz, and theater gigs), there are a few things I've grown to appreciate. Reliable gear is a big one. That means not only can I trust it to function, but that I can rely on it to sound good in whatever situation I find myself in. A mid forward sound is necessary in some situations like the dreaded banquet hall I have also found that mid forward cabinets with less low end(ie// Schroeder, some of the Barefaced line, etc) tend to work well in most situations. Most of my work these days are IEM shows where there is no amp on stage. Or if there is one, its just to look the part. I like passive basses. I find they sit in the mix the way I want. Usually its a P bass or a 5 string Jazz. I always use a compressor. It slots the bass in the mix better. HPF's have been around for a while, but I think now that they've caught on there are some great builders making them. I think they're a must have. You don't necessarily need it all the time, but they are a lifesaver for some rooms. Lots of great experience in this thread! I've enjoyed reading it!

This +1000%
I bought a [NEW] Ampeg SVT7-Pro years ago. Ampeg amps are known to be extremely reliable.
It arrived from Sweetwater DOA. My acct rep said I could ship it back (for free) and they'd send me another one.
I had quite a few AX7 pre-amp tubes sitting in a closet from my guitar-playing days.
I grabbed a Chinese NOS AX7 that I had been saving (why?), opened up the SVT7 and replaced the pre-amp tube [turned out to be dead]. I was going to return the amp if that did not work.

Powered up first time and I used it for many yrs. Still have it. 100% reliable even tho I now use a pedalboard and a KHAN VTDI. I asked Mr. Khan about a replacement tube and he said they use an AU7 as they are smoother and not as "hot" (less gain) as the AX7. I need to get one.
Always have a spare/backup!

 

[Tonecaster]

I don't know where to begin other than that technique and gear are the primary components of achieving great tone and then one can tweak things a bit to each particular space to optimize tone for the room.

I do highly recommend keeping EQ settings on amps as close to flat as possible and personally only keep basses that sound great with a relatively flat setting. It is not helpful to play basses that require massive EQ adjustments to sound good especially when considering a gig where you are sending a DI signal to the Front of House to come through a larger PA system. I want that engineer to set his EQ on the bass channel of the board to flat, turn up the fader, and have a great sound to work with from there with minimal needs to add or subtract EQ.

I don't think the OP was asking for advice though...rather asking if others share his frustration?

Here is a recent recording recorded directly into the board with little to no EQ...I like this tone for this style of music (I play many styles with many different artists) and as per usual do not have any trouble 'cutting through' or supporting the music imho.

Great tone on that clip Faulkner!
Can I ask about your signal chain? Bass - strings - amp - cab?
Was your recorded feed a DI?
All The Best,
ELT

 

[faulknersj]

Great tone on that clip Faulkner!
Can I ask about your signal chain? Bass - strings - amp - cab?
Was your recorded feed a DI?
All The Best,
ELT

Thank you very much for the kind words. This was just my bass directly into a Genz Benz Streamliner 900 and the DI out into the FOH mixing board. I did not use any pedals or preamps and my bass was in passive mode. I am not sure how the recordings were transferred from there though unfortunately...

 

[Zbysek]

Anyone else experiencing the frustration that it’s all in vain? All we have worked for to get a great tone with great effects isn’t going to matter?

I have close to 30 years of gigging experience under my belt.

I am not sharing (the level of) your frustration. Having a good gear increases the likelihood that my bass will sound (reasonably) good, IME. That's not to say that it's always possible to achieve a perfect sound (or even a reasonable good sound). Some rooms are difficult. Some rooms are total nightmares. On the other hand, some rooms are good.

What helped me was to realise that live gigging requires lot of compromises. Too high expectations create frustration, IMHO.

 

[jimfist]

If only #4 worked.. LOL.

#6 - ignore the keys wandering left hand that stomps all over [your/the] bass lines - cuz they think they're concert pianists!

I'm dealing w/ #6 in a wedding band I'm working with. Going to come to a head and get addressed at next "rehearsal" this week.

#6 is the bane of my existence, though I only have to deal with it on few occasions now.

Funny story...way back when I was a 19 yr old just starting out in my first "real" gigging band, with a really talented keyboardist who had about 5 various synths and such. Among these was a clavinet, and we all had a healthy stage volume (1981). We were in no financial position to afford a quality FOH sound mixer, so we got the combination roadie/driver/lighting & sound combo guy, and he wasn't on his A-game, to put it mildly. To the point: for countless shows, he kept on telling me to turn down. Evidently, he had been confusing the keyboard player's constant, dominant left hand playing the clavinet for my bass. Or maybe they were burying me on purpose. I'll never know, but I sure learned a lot of things that first year.

 

[s0c9]

#6 is the bane of my existence, though I only have to deal with it on few occasions now.

Funny story...way back when I was a 19 yr old just starting out in my first "real" gigging band, with a really talented keyboardist who had about 5 various synths and such. Among these was a clavinet, and we all had a healthy stage volume (1981). We were in no financial position to afford a quality FOH sound mixer, so we got the combination roadie/driver/lighting & sound combo guy, and he wasn't on his A-game, to put it mildly. To the point: for countless shows, he kept on telling me to turn down. Evidently, he had been confusing the keyboard player's constant, dominant left hand playing the clavinet for my bass. Or maybe they were burying me on purpose. I'll never know, but I sure learned a lot of things that first year.

I had to fire a keys player in my old rock band (back when I played lead guitar and before my bass journey started) for wandering left hand.
It was so bad our sound guy took him out of the mix - while we played at one of the top local rock venues - but left him in his monitor, so he didn't know.
He only found out because his friend told him after the set that he couldn't hear him in the mix, so he went to the sound guy to complain - who gave him the what for.
He was [obviously] upset and came to me (the BL). I told we'd had this conversation about his left before and it needed to be corrected.
After talking w/ the rest of the band post-gig (incl bass player), they agreed we should [reluctantly] let him go - as finding good keys players is REALLY TOUGH!
At the start of the next rehearsal (3 days later) he quit - so I didn't really have to fire him. Saved me the trouble.

 

[jimfist]

Another learning experience anecdote from the old, old days. We played an opening set at a college armory, about the size of 3 basketball courts. The headliner was regionally well-known and seeing nominal rotation on MTV, so we were pretty excited for this show. We did our load in and the headliner's crew told me and the keyboard player that they'd be happy to put us in the monitors to save on stage space and save our lugging extra gear (long, long load-in). Everything was great...pro gear, good sound check, nice mix on the stage, no worries, right? WRONG!
We hit the stage and started playing, but NOBODY was manning the monitor board. The crew left us hanging out to dry with no stage sound (except guitar and drums) and our opening song was Footstompin' Music by Grand Funk...not much bass going on in that. LOL. All I could hear of my bass was reverb and long delay reflections coming off the back wall about 200 feet away.
Eventually, our manager/agent got ahold of the stage crew, who was off somewhere not giving a crap, and got them to bring up a couple faders so we at least had some sort of monitor mix. Methinks the monitor mixer was looking for a cash tip in advance, which he didn't get, and so decided to let us suffer. Ahhhh, the good old days.