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Gigging without a cabinet
- Thread starter hernameisrio
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one other way to work on a solution: how about you and the drummer set up a day for the two of you to hit up a few local music shops together. look at your options and discuss things face to face. this would show you are committed to working it out and the drummers input is also important. don't limit it to just the drummer invite the others too.
i'm glad to be part of this new interactive world but i am old enough to still place a high value on personal involvement. don't forget to look in places like pawn shops too. you may just stumble on a piece of equipment that will work perfectly
i'm glad to be part of this new interactive world but i am old enough to still place a high value on personal involvement. don't forget to look in places like pawn shops too. you may just stumble on a piece of equipment that will work perfectly
Get one. You won't need one for medium-large venues where the PA alone can sustain you, but smaller venues generally can't and are also unlikely to have sufficient monitoring for you to hear yourself. Do yourself a favour and get a small cab with neodymium speakers in it, as they're quite a bit more powerful than they're ceramic counterparts.
I recommend some kind of combo, as you're having to carry the amp plus your bass, so a Genz Benz combo would be perfect as you can take the head out. They're expensive, but well worth the cash, and the heads are TINY. Even just a little 1x12 cabinet may do for monitoring, but get something bigger so the crowd can hear you too.
I recommend some kind of combo, as you're having to carry the amp plus your bass, so a Genz Benz combo would be perfect as you can take the head out. They're expensive, but well worth the cash, and the heads are TINY. Even just a little 1x12 cabinet may do for monitoring, but get something bigger so the crowd can hear you too.
I copied and pasted this from a post I made in another forum about a bar/restaurant gig coming up -
By "unplugged" I mean neither the guitarist nor I will use rigs. We'll play our instruments through the PA which has two JBL cabs with 15" speakers and horns. So there is plenty of bass tone . I'll use the Lak through a preamp, probably my EBS ValveDrive, and the guitarist will use his acoustic (which has a pickup like most acoustics these days). The drummer will play a substantially reduced kit. And of course we have Laura singing lead and the rest of us all do some singing as well, so there's four mikes.
It's a good format for these winter bar/restaurant gigs in the HV, and my other band the Shoemakers does a similar setup for these types of gigs. I'm very comfortable going "rigless" if I have the right bass and preamp.
All that said, my next two band gigs after this one are in large venues, and I'm eyeing some Baer cabs after getting turned on to them in the "Amps" forum of TB.
By "unplugged" I mean neither the guitarist nor I will use rigs. We'll play our instruments through the PA which has two JBL cabs with 15" speakers and horns. So there is plenty of bass tone . I'll use the Lak through a preamp, probably my EBS ValveDrive, and the guitarist will use his acoustic (which has a pickup like most acoustics these days). The drummer will play a substantially reduced kit. And of course we have Laura singing lead and the rest of us all do some singing as well, so there's four mikes.
It's a good format for these winter bar/restaurant gigs in the HV, and my other band the Shoemakers does a similar setup for these types of gigs. I'm very comfortable going "rigless" if I have the right bass and preamp.
All that said, my next two band gigs after this one are in large venues, and I'm eyeing some Baer cabs after getting turned on to them in the "Amps" forum of TB.
You just described my life. For years I had an 80lb rack that I used to drive 2-cab combinations mixing anywhere from 2-SWR Goliath Jr 2X10 or 2-SWR Triads, or 1 of each. FWIW, Triads weigh about 85 lbs.
I sold all that stuff and bought a MarkBass 102P Combo (44 Lbs) and a MarkBass 102P Traveler extension cab (33 lbs). For small venue gigs I drop my 4lb GK MB500 head in my bass gig bag, strap on the gig bag and carry the Traveler. For big gigs, I take both MarkBass pieces and strap a double gig bag on and off I go. Here's what I look like going to a "big gig"...
OP, not saying you should toss two basses on your back and a cab in each hand, especially with your shoulder issue. Just showing how I went from a 200 lb rig to a 77 lb rig that delivers just as much power.
If you GOTTA get a cab, you'd be doing yourself a favor to get a micro-head (MarkBass, GK, Eden, whatever you like) and a 30 lb or so extension cab. Get your bandmates to help you move stuff around, if they are the ones insistent on it.
I can only assume the drummer has been away from the local scene for some time. Perhaps they plan on touring but left that detail out? You still need a cab for rehearsing and reliable monitoring/filling small venues to acoustic drum level to be considered a working bassist.
I'm just a sucker for a big rig. I like having an imposing backline. If aesthetics were removed from the equation, I'd probably just run without a cab, too. At least, whenever possible.
If your drummer thinks it's necessary, tell him you'll get his credit card back to him in a day or two when you finish ordering his bass cabs for you to use.
If your drummer thinks it's necessary, tell him you'll get his credit card back to him in a day or two when you finish ordering his bass cabs for you to use.
not sure of your budget or timing, but another route (rabbit hole?) to look at might be in the Fearful/Fearless world. Some amazing things coming out of there with neo 8s and 10s that might work for you in terms of cab, which is the issue, obviously not the amp.
Those are pretty much bespoke built but I can't think of anything else besides maybe the MarkBass CMD121P combo, and that's 30 lbs
Very nice sounding and powerful, though. Oh, and over US$800......
Those are pretty much bespoke built but I can't think of anything else besides maybe the MarkBass CMD121P combo, and that's 30 lbs
Very nice sounding and powerful, though. Oh, and over US$800......
Ya I was wondering about this too. I have a decent rig and it really is a great value for the price of my head and cab. some of my band mates are pressuring me to get a bigger cabinet. But every venue always does a direct out with the XLR so i'm going through the PA and their monitors. I basically like the cabinet so I can hear myself directly behind me.
Put it this way. There were many things that really offended me about the drummer's reply, and I don't know if he realizes that this is how it came off, but it doesn't actually have much to do with whether or not *I* personally want a rig or whether or not I'M able to spend >$1000 on such things. (Wiling, yes. Able, not yet.)
1. The total dismissal of my stupid shoulder (Which granted, has gotten better, but I want to KEEP it better, ya dig?!). Granted, I don't have a doctor telling me not to lift x number of pounds because I have not had health care in seven years. (Yeah I know...) BUT, I have ME telling me, "Hey, when you lift heavy things, it hurts, so don't do it." But really. Enough. If I may digress, I spent most of my time as a camera assistant in the film industry, feeling almost constant aches and pains...to the point where I thought something was wrong with me, like mono or something. Turns out my body was completely overworked, almost all the time and it killed me. So, I f@#ing refuse to put myself through that level of hell if I can avoid it....especially with something I love doing so much.
1a. I will eventually pay what I have to in order to save myself pain and possible surgery or a life-long injury.
2. The biggest disservice I did to myself in my previous Life Of Carrying Heavy Things™ is that I pushed through and lifted all that heavy camera gear anyway because I thought I "had" to in order to get/keep the job. How many guys on the crew ever offered to help me carry anything, versus how many stood by and commented on how impressive it was that I could lift it by myself, not realizing what a strain it was? Man, what the @#$ is wrong with people?! So, we have two offenses: the brush-off of my shoulder issue, and the implication that Oh Yeah, No Problem, I Can Just Handle All Of This By Myself. Which is clearly false.
3. For those of you telling me to play piccolo, I'll tell you where you can put that piccolo, and I mean no offense to piccolo players, but not a thing is gonna keep me from my bass. You could cut off one of my arms tomorrow and I would still find a way!
3a. Even so, for all the compromising and bending over backwards that *I'm* willing to do, that I CONSTANTLY do just because I'm a nice person...there was no a single mention of, "we can help you out and carry things if need be." You know, it would be nice...it would be really nice.
Not to sound like a princess...simply that I feel like when it comes to good band chemistry, people should help each other out. If I can't lift something heavy, I carry all the annoying light things that are hard to keep track of, or I lend a flashlight, or a tuner, or I help wrap cables. I do what I can and I do it all the time. So why can't they?! Third offense: not a single mention of meeting me halfway.
4. Fourth offense: I realize I kinda set this boundary of talking gear with this guy and I realize that due to his experience as a sound guy, he does have some credibility, but I also question that credibility based on not only personal experience, but on what I've heard from others who gig a lot in this city. Quite a lot of my fellow NYC bass player friends even SAID, "Why do you need a cabinet?" I realize, yeah, I do "need" one someday, but I want to get a proper rig because *I* want to in order to make MYSELF a better/more marketable bassist. I don't want to do it because:
5. Some drummer who I've played a few rehearsals with who isn't paying me who I haven't even properly gigged with yet, seems to be telling me he knows more about my bass gear than I do and that I "should" get all these things that maybe I can't spend the money on right now or don't WANT to spend the money on right now. I'm not getting some freakin refrigerator-sized coffee table cabinet that I have to call a crane operator to get out of my damn apartment! No! It's not happening! I don't care how cheap it is! Even that Hartke, I was trying to make a list in my head of Other Things I've Lifted That Weigh 66 Pounds and guess what, I can't really think of anything, so there goes that.
I was willing to work with them at first, but they have pushed me away now. As flexible and easy-going as I try to be, I think it's also time to tighten up the screws and set some boundaries and start establishing some simple rules. And maybe the simplest one is this...and this is basically my philosophy on my career as a bassist:
"Feel free to tell me what to do. I've had people do that all my life with my "art." But at least pay me for it."
It's really that simple. Does it make me sound shallow and greedy? Whatever, dudes. I'm just saying, I'm no longer in it simply for the love of the game...I am in it to make it my life and my living. Even if/when I play for free from now on, it must be with people who think differently than this and who have a better concept of how to play "the game" that we call the music scene. So perhaps the biggest slap in the face here, is that I'm being asked to spend money on a band that I'm not even making money off of. There's simply no mention of money....just these mysterious gigs at these venues which mysteriously do not have a backline. Red flag much? Yeah.
Don't worry, I'll let them down gently...tomorrow when I've slept on it a bit. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. Now I DO want a rig, but I want MY rig the way it works for ME...something nice and light. If I have to sell my synth to cover the costs, you know what? Maybe I'll just do that because it means I'm investing in ME as a bass player...not some thankless, broke band. This whole situation has only made me more determined to get nothing less than the best gear I could ever buy for myself. So, yeah. I'm still looking for a rig, but I'm looking so that I can be a better player and so that I can leave bands like this in the dust.
1. The total dismissal of my stupid shoulder (Which granted, has gotten better, but I want to KEEP it better, ya dig?!). Granted, I don't have a doctor telling me not to lift x number of pounds because I have not had health care in seven years. (Yeah I know...) BUT, I have ME telling me, "Hey, when you lift heavy things, it hurts, so don't do it." But really. Enough. If I may digress, I spent most of my time as a camera assistant in the film industry, feeling almost constant aches and pains...to the point where I thought something was wrong with me, like mono or something. Turns out my body was completely overworked, almost all the time and it killed me. So, I f@#ing refuse to put myself through that level of hell if I can avoid it....especially with something I love doing so much.
1a. I will eventually pay what I have to in order to save myself pain and possible surgery or a life-long injury.
2. The biggest disservice I did to myself in my previous Life Of Carrying Heavy Things™ is that I pushed through and lifted all that heavy camera gear anyway because I thought I "had" to in order to get/keep the job. How many guys on the crew ever offered to help me carry anything, versus how many stood by and commented on how impressive it was that I could lift it by myself, not realizing what a strain it was? Man, what the @#$ is wrong with people?! So, we have two offenses: the brush-off of my shoulder issue, and the implication that Oh Yeah, No Problem, I Can Just Handle All Of This By Myself. Which is clearly false.
3. For those of you telling me to play piccolo, I'll tell you where you can put that piccolo, and I mean no offense to piccolo players, but not a thing is gonna keep me from my bass. You could cut off one of my arms tomorrow and I would still find a way!
3a. Even so, for all the compromising and bending over backwards that *I'm* willing to do, that I CONSTANTLY do just because I'm a nice person...there was no a single mention of, "we can help you out and carry things if need be." You know, it would be nice...it would be really nice.
Not to sound like a princess...simply that I feel like when it comes to good band chemistry, people should help each other out. If I can't lift something heavy, I carry all the annoying light things that are hard to keep track of, or I lend a flashlight, or a tuner, or I help wrap cables. I do what I can and I do it all the time. So why can't they?! Third offense: not a single mention of meeting me halfway.
4. Fourth offense: I realize I kinda set this boundary of talking gear with this guy and I realize that due to his experience as a sound guy, he does have some credibility, but I also question that credibility based on not only personal experience, but on what I've heard from others who gig a lot in this city. Quite a lot of my fellow NYC bass player friends even SAID, "Why do you need a cabinet?" I realize, yeah, I do "need" one someday, but I want to get a proper rig because *I* want to in order to make MYSELF a better/more marketable bassist. I don't want to do it because:
5. Some drummer who I've played a few rehearsals with who isn't paying me who I haven't even properly gigged with yet, seems to be telling me he knows more about my bass gear than I do and that I "should" get all these things that maybe I can't spend the money on right now or don't WANT to spend the money on right now. I'm not getting some freakin refrigerator-sized coffee table cabinet that I have to call a crane operator to get out of my damn apartment! No! It's not happening! I don't care how cheap it is! Even that Hartke, I was trying to make a list in my head of Other Things I've Lifted That Weigh 66 Pounds and guess what, I can't really think of anything, so there goes that.
I was willing to work with them at first, but they have pushed me away now. As flexible and easy-going as I try to be, I think it's also time to tighten up the screws and set some boundaries and start establishing some simple rules. And maybe the simplest one is this...and this is basically my philosophy on my career as a bassist:
"Feel free to tell me what to do. I've had people do that all my life with my "art." But at least pay me for it."
It's really that simple. Does it make me sound shallow and greedy? Whatever, dudes. I'm just saying, I'm no longer in it simply for the love of the game...I am in it to make it my life and my living. Even if/when I play for free from now on, it must be with people who think differently than this and who have a better concept of how to play "the game" that we call the music scene. So perhaps the biggest slap in the face here, is that I'm being asked to spend money on a band that I'm not even making money off of. There's simply no mention of money....just these mysterious gigs at these venues which mysteriously do not have a backline. Red flag much? Yeah.
Don't worry, I'll let them down gently...tomorrow when I've slept on it a bit. Maybe I'm looking at this all wrong. Now I DO want a rig, but I want MY rig the way it works for ME...something nice and light. If I have to sell my synth to cover the costs, you know what? Maybe I'll just do that because it means I'm investing in ME as a bass player...not some thankless, broke band. This whole situation has only made me more determined to get nothing less than the best gear I could ever buy for myself. So, yeah. I'm still looking for a rig, but I'm looking so that I can be a better player and so that I can leave bands like this in the dust.
Good for you! This drummer has no clue about the current tech in bass heads and speakers. While I personally like 15's, there's no reason you need to have one.
My 2 lb MB200 sure wouldn't be "a really heavy DI" if I brought it to a gig and there was no cab. BA115 = 62 lbs! I live in Nebraska and have a pickup and a trailer and *I* wouldn't carry that thing around! I have a bad back and a really bad right shoulder (google "hemiarthoplasty" - I set the TSA detectors off at the airport).
I'd do a micro head and a neo 112 if I was in your situation.
Don't sell the Juno 106! Those things are awesome.
Just tell these jerk bags, look, I have heard and listened to your concerns about my equipment. I simply cannot afford a light and loud cab at the present time, and a cheap and heavy cab would aggravate my shoulder more than I am willing to accept. So for now we can use this Hartke cab for practicing, and either you guys can help me get it to and from shows, or we can use backline cabs or borrow from other bands on the bill as applicable. But for the time being that's how it has to be. Eventually I will get a light and loud cab solution but this will probably be several months in the future.
And just leave it at that.
Just tell these jerk bags, look, I have heard and listened to your concerns about my equipment. I simply cannot afford a light and loud cab at the present time, and a cheap and heavy cab would aggravate my shoulder more than I am willing to accept. So for now we can use this Hartke cab for practicing, and either you guys can help me get it to and from shows, or we can use backline cabs or borrow from other bands on the bill as applicable. But for the time being that's how it has to be. Eventually I will get a light and loud cab solution but this will probably be several months in the future.
And just leave it at that.
Rewind. How about some answers to the questions that hold the key to a solution.
How much can you pick up and carry to a cart?
How much can you afford to spend now?
How much can you put in later?
How much can you handle on a handcart all-up, assuming you have the patience to load it and strap it?
It sounds like they may want you to provide more than just monitoring? How big of a room do they want the stage bass to cover before they go to relying on the PA?
I think they would be ok with covering for your physical limitations. You need to look at what you can do.
This just tells me the drummer is older and/or out of touch. You can't just make a blanket statement like it has to be a 15" speaker, not anymore (if ever).
Really need to find out what the problem is, don't think that's been discovered yet. Can he not hear you?
So there is no way that you can:
1) Get a cab that can be located at band rehearsal space?
2) Get help transporting that cab between band rehearsal space and gigs?
Anyway, the TC electronics BG250 has a 15 inch speaker, more power than your current head and weighs 35lbs. That is a cheaper and lighter solution than that BA115 cab.
I guess everything is down to transportation here. Are they really not willing to assist you in any way here?
1) Get a cab that can be located at band rehearsal space?
2) Get help transporting that cab between band rehearsal space and gigs?
Anyway, the TC electronics BG250 has a 15 inch speaker, more power than your current head and weighs 35lbs. That is a cheaper and lighter solution than that BA115 cab.
I guess everything is down to transportation here. Are they really not willing to assist you in any way here?
He couldn't hear me in rehearsal because I was going through a crappy PA and fighting the volume of their backing tracks. He hasn't even gigged with me yet...he doesn't KNOW if he can hear me in that situation, rather hrs just assuming he won't. The amount of money I want to spend in the future to get what *I* want, is whatever I have to in order to get something light. The amount of money I want to spend and the amount of weight I want to put on a cart to appease them and go play places where I apparently somehow won't be heard through a PA which I've NEVER had a problem with at decent venues....? is starting to be, zero dollars.
...and zero pounds. And zero hours. If that, um, clarifies things. I don't think I want to work with someone who disregards my very legitimate personal boundaries about what I'm willing to do for them, doesn't offer to meet me in the middle, and is rigid and antiquated in their thinking.
I'm sorry if the following seems harsh to you, hernameisrio, but you need to hear it:
1. Why would anyone take a musician seriously if they don't have a means to amplify themselves and expect others to do it for them?
2. Why would anyone take a musician seriously if they expect (or demand) assistance transporting even the most basic of gear?
Almost every add on craigslist says: "Must own professional gear and have reliable transportation." Ever seen one that says "we love carrying your gear. No cabinets, please." ???????
Go ahead. Start making demands and setting boundaries. You'll find yourself without a band. Better yet: Get a cart, get a lightweight head and start taking your role as a bassist as seriously as you expect from others.
1. Why would anyone take a musician seriously if they don't have a means to amplify themselves and expect others to do it for them?
2. Why would anyone take a musician seriously if they expect (or demand) assistance transporting even the most basic of gear?
Almost every add on craigslist says: "Must own professional gear and have reliable transportation." Ever seen one that says "we love carrying your gear. No cabinets, please." ???????
Go ahead. Start making demands and setting boundaries. You'll find yourself without a band. Better yet: Get a cart, get a lightweight head and start taking your role as a bassist as seriously as you expect from others.
Like I said, when I have the money, I'll get what *I* need. I have NO problem with that. What I DO have a problem with, is someone I haven't even played a gig with yet who isn't paying me, telling me what I "really should" get. I am not whining about buying a rig. I get it...I want one...I'll have one. I'm not even implying that they should carry it for me, just that it's always nice when band mates help each other out in situations where we are ultimately the band equivalent of a low-budget indie film. If some bigger more established band told me I had to have a car and/or a rig and they were paying me, therefore funding these things, I'd be scrambling and tripping over myself even more than I already am. Dude...you don't have to tell me what I essentially already know. Do you have any idea how incredibly frustrating it is to be told, "oh sorry, you're a ($&@ing cripple with no car and no trust fund, better luck next time"?! Do people tell guys in wheelchairs to forget about running the marathon and go learn how to knit?! Try me...I am literally willing to do ANYTHING to be successful as a bassist...but on my own terms, which means, nothing that will permanently disable me, and nothing that involves working with the wrong people.
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