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GK Combo Shootout...MB210 vs. MB212

#841
Adam Bomb said:
I've actually never tried this - I drive my MB210s either through the two outs on my pedal board or my new ABY box for when I play dry. But I am def. going to try it. Hope my amps are in phase!

--Bomb :bassist:
Click to expand...

If you do not have any issues with loss of low end now when you use them together, you won't linking them any other way. The phase issue being discussed here refers to one set of speakers being wired opposite of the other (+ & - reversed) so that the two cabs are essentially canceling each other out.
 
#843
Wife's not home so I did some experiments. :bassist:

They are definitely out of phase. I went out of my stereo pedal board outs into each amp, turned one amp all the way down, hit my E, then slowly turned it back up. Trippy. It was like I was turning it down.

Did the awesome into-the-passive-out-through-the-active-into-the-other-passive thing for the first time. Same result.

Through my Radial ABY box, turning the 180 switch on (up) makes an undeniable difference for the better.

I don't know how I never noticed this in 2 years. Granted, I almost always use just one. But I have played through them both several times, including at gigs, and they always got the job done. Maybe I was losing a lot of tone and didn't know it. I mean, it's not like they render each other invisible. It's just that when I flick the 180 switch from on to off my tone loses like one and a half balls.

Questions: I just had one serviced. I sent it in to get a tweeter replaced, and the note that came with the amp when it was returned said that also the preamp was updated. Might that be when this happened? Possible that the amps were in phase when I sent one in and out of phase when I got it back?

Follow-up: I am having the tweeter replaced on the other one very soon. Does it make sense to ask them also to switch the polarity on it? I will double-triple check but my two MB210s are definitely out of phase as of just now.

Crazy! This really seems like something that manufacturers would want to standardize, doesn't it?

--Bomb :bassist:
 
#845
Is the effect greatly increased at higher volumes? Because, later, I tried it again at wife volume and when I turned up the second amp the tone increased/improved. But again, this was all really quiet.

I am probably going to post a video of it for you all's consideration. I'd hate to have them reverse the polarity and that *make* the amps out of phase!

Can't mess around with the amp guts myself because (a) I'd void my GC Rock Star Warranty and (b) I don't know the heck I'm doing.

--Bomb :bassist:
 
#848
I have been using the MB212 for about a year now. I have been pretty unhappy with it. My other two amps are a mesa boogie walkabout, and an Eden Metro. Both very strong amps that sound like a million bucks to me...I was not expecting much from the MB212. I really just wanted something loud, articulate, and light...

But the 212 just has too little bass articulation at louder levels. I am using a VT bass, which def. helps clean up some, but everything just sounds like a bassy mess to me. And if I roll of the bass the amp sounds "hollow". I really want to put in some dampening material, but I do not want to void the warranty if I go to sell it. Right now I would rather lug my 85 lb amp that I know will sound good, rather than 35 pounds, just so I can feel positive that the amp can handle the room and the band. My band has two loud guitarists, and a drummer. And if we play outside the bass situation only gets worse.

MB212 just doesn't seem to cut it for me when it comes to gigging. I really really tried to make it work for me. :crying:

Just thought I would share my experience fwiw.
 
#850
This is weird. Did some real experiments yesterday. Gig volumes in the house! :bassist: Used a loop pedal this time rather than tried to play, for consistent signal.

Running one amp by itself = loud. Running both broke the house. :bassist:

So, definitely in phase, right? Certainly couldn't be in phase sometimes and not other times, since apparently it's a hardware issue, yeah? Crisis averted!

BTW, I get the "boomy" complaint about the MB210 now. If the 212 doesn't have that problem, cool. Lately I have been turning my bass knobs *all* the way down when I crank the volume. The result is a frighteningly loud, still very bassy, really sweet sounding combo. Moar bass still sounds great to me at lower volumes. (I did my newest phase tests with the bass set to various levels.) So, if you have one of these, don't be afraid to cut the bass a *lot*.

--Bomb :bassist:
 
#851
Adam Bomb said:
BTW, I get the "boomy" complaint about the MB210 now. If the 212 doesn't have that problem, cool. Lately I have been turning my bass knobs *all* the way down when I crank the volume. The result is a frighteningly loud, still very bassy, really sweet sounding combo. Moar bass still sounds great to me at lower volumes.
Click to expand...

I used to own the MB210 and I concur.
 
#852
Well, I made my decision and ordered another MB212, it arrives today. In my search for a backup I made the rounds of the stores in LA, played through other rigs owned by friends, at jams, in rehearsal studios, pretty much any and everything I could plug into.

NOTHING even comes close to the tone I get from my MB212. Forget the light weight, tiny footprint, and bargain price, none of those things would matter to me if it didn't sound great. I simply can't find anything to compete with it so that made the decision easy.

The guy who is the lead guitarist in my blues band is also a monster bassist (don't you just hate those guys?!) who does lots of sessions on electric and upright. His day job is owner and chief engineer at a big time recording studio. This guy is a tone Nazi, he plays only pre-CBS Fender basses and amps, has pedals custom designed and built for him...you get the idea. He says the MB212 is the best sounding bass amp he's heard and he loves playing through mine.

OK, enough gushing. Gotta watch for the UPS man.
 
#853
Adam Bomb said:
This is weird. Did some real experiments yesterday. Gig volumes in the house! :bassist: Used a loop pedal this time rather than tried to play, for consistent signal.

Running one amp by itself = loud. Running both broke the house. :bassist:

So, definitely in phase, right? Certainly couldn't be in phase sometimes and not other times, since apparently it's a hardware issue, yeah? Crisis averted!

BTW, I get the "boomy" complaint about the MB210 now. If the 212 doesn't have that problem, cool. Lately I have been turning my bass knobs *all* the way down when I crank the volume. The result is a frighteningly loud, still very bassy, really sweet sounding combo. Moar bass still sounds great to me at lower volumes. (I did my newest phase tests with the bass set to various levels.) So, if you have one of these, don't be afraid to cut the bass a *lot*.

--Bomb :bassist:
Click to expand...
I think the best test I've found for phase is to put both amps face to face about a foot apart. Play one, then turn up the other to match. It'll either get louder or not depending on phase.

IMO the MB210 is quite boomy and the MB212 less so. I still roll off 'some' lows though.

Adam, do you use the 'contour' switch?
 
#854
The amps in these combos are a lot like the MB200 and MB500, are they not? I have the MB500 and I think it's the case that putting the EQ flat does not result in a flat EQ, if you know what I mean. My own ear tells me this and I've had some others on TB confirm it as well. "Flat" for these amps is to roll the highs and lows down to about 9 or 10 o'clock and then push the mids (both of them) to about 2 o'clock.

Considering that the noon settings are already that scooped, using the "contour" button is out of the question for those who like a middy tone in the first place.
 
#855
Sparkdog said:
Well, I made my decision and ordered another MB212, it arrives today. In my search for a backup I made the rounds of the stores in LA, played through other rigs owned by friends, at jams, in rehearsal studios, pretty much any and everything I could plug into.

NOTHING even comes close to the tone I get from my MB212. Forget the light weight, tiny footprint, and bargain price, none of those things would matter to me if it didn't sound great. I simply can't find anything to compete with it so that made the decision easy.

The guy who is the lead guitarist in my blues band is also a monster bassist (don't you just hate those guys?!) who does lots of sessions on electric and upright. His day job is owner and chief engineer at a big time recording studio. This guy is a tone Nazi, he plays only pre-CBS Fender basses and amps, has pedals custom designed and built for him...you get the idea. He says the MB212 is the best sounding bass amp he's heard and he loves playing through mine.

OK, enough gushing. Gotta watch for the UPS man.
Click to expand...

Dude, you are fixin' to bring the thundah. Yeah, lead guitards who play bass better than me can be problem children...



tallboybass said:
I think the best test I've found for phase is to put both amps face to face about a foot apart. Play one, then turn up the other to match. It'll either get louder or not depending on phase.

IMO the MB210 is quite boomy and the MB212 less so. I still roll off 'some' lows though.

Adam, do you use the 'contour' switch?
Click to expand...

This is a great idea. Thanks! I'll report back after I get a chance to do it. (Wife must leave the house first.)

I only use contour at bedroom volumes. Sounds sweet then. Rest of the time I'm cutting through.

Thanks again--

--Bomb :bassist:
 
#856
Just back from my gig and my new 210 combo seems to have developed a problem. :hmm:

I'm running the mb210 and a mesa 15, moderately loud volume. Pre, master and drive all at around 12:00 o'clock. bass and treble also around noon, mids at around 1 - 2 o'clock.

Everything was fine until the last tune of the night. A couple of bars into the tune, I suddenly hear distortion starting to creep in. Within a couple more bars, I have flat out fuzz tone with no low end at all. Thinking it might be the battery in my warrior, I switch to my DJ5, passive electronics,....same sound,..all fuzz. Bypass my pedal board, straight line to the amp,......fuzz. :rollno:

We finish the tune, well, the rest of the band did, I wasn't contributing much by this point. Switched out my cable from bass to amp,..no difference. Then I unplugged the speaker cable to the Mesa cab. The distortion is gone from the 210. Plug the mesa back in,..both cabs are fuzz city. Unplug and the combo sounds clear again, although it did seem to be lacking in volume. The lack of volume could be my ears fooling me after playing all night though.

I didn't have another speaker cable handy to switch out and see if that could be the culprit. The speaker cable looked fine when I undid the caps, solder joints were solid,...no scorch marks or anything visible. Will try a different cable in the morning.

Anyone else experience any issues like this with their GK? I'm somewhat baffled here. Any ideas as to whats going on with my rig?
 
#857
scottfeldstein said:
The amps in these combos are a lot like the MB200 and MB500, are they not? I have the MB500 and I think it's the case that putting the EQ flat does not result in a flat EQ, if you know what I mean. My own ear tells me this and I've had some others on TB confirm it as well. "Flat" for these amps is to roll the highs and lows down to about 9 or 10 o'clock and then push the mids (both of them) to about 2 o'clock.

Considering that the noon settings are already that scooped, using the "contour" button is out of the question for those who like a middy tone in the first place.
Click to expand...

I just bought my MB210 yesterday :hyper:, and came to post my thoughts, but this is pretty much all of 'em.

Loving it so far. Wish I'd had a chance to A/B with a 212, but for what I'm doing now, this is perfect. If you have a concern about volume or bass with this amp, don't.
 
#858
voodoobassist said:
Any ideas as to whats going on with my rig?
Click to expand...

It's an 8 ohm cab, right? Of course it is.

Hm. If it was my MB500 head I'd be wondering whether I had the limiter engaged or not. That's a fairly high volume, especially EQd like that. But I don't remember if the combo has a limiter switch...

Still, I'm grasping at straws. Could be somethings seriously wrong with it, I don't know.
 
#860
voodoobassist said:
Just back from my gig and my new 210 combo seems to have developed a problem. :hmm:

I'm running the mb210 and a mesa 15, moderately loud volume. Pre, master and drive all at around 12:00 o'clock. bass and treble also around noon, mids at around 1 - 2 o'clock.

Everything was fine until the last tune of the night. A couple of bars into the tune, I suddenly hear distortion starting to creep in. Within a couple more bars, I have flat out fuzz tone with no low end at all. Thinking it might be the battery in my warrior, I switch to my DJ5, passive electronics,....same sound,..all fuzz. Bypass my pedal board, straight line to the amp,......fuzz. :rollno:

We finish the tune, well, the rest of the band did, I wasn't contributing much by this point. Switched out my cable from bass to amp,..no difference. Then I unplugged the speaker cable to the Mesa cab. The distortion is gone from the 210. Plug the mesa back in,..both cabs are fuzz city. Unplug and the combo sounds clear again, although it did seem to be lacking in volume. The lack of volume could be my ears fooling me after playing all night though.

I didn't have another speaker cable handy to switch out and see if that could be the culprit. The speaker cable looked fine when I undid the caps, solder joints were solid,...no scorch marks or anything visible. Will try a different cable in the morning.

Anyone else experience any issues like this with their GK? I'm somewhat baffled here. Any ideas as to whats going on with my rig?
Click to expand...

Hopefully the Mesa 15 is not a 4 ohm cab? If it is a 8 ohm cab, try a new speaker cable first. If the rig still distorts, maybe you blew the Mesa.
 

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