GK Neo 112-II and my personal reflections....

[Sparkl]

Ok guys. This will not be a short post so props to those who will take their time to read through this thing.

First of all, it is VERY important to note that I come from Europe, Slovenia in specific. This information will be very important later on, no need to explain why I guess

Anyways, I had a pretty awesome solid bass rig up until a week ago. Had an SWR Gloiath Sr 610 (fender era, so eminence speakers) and a GK 1001RB-II.

Phenomenal sound, powerful, enough bass (at least to my ears) with one simple drawback - size. And weight.

Damn this thing was huge, weighed a ton and it was simply ridiculous to carry this thing around small places (which represents the majority of gigs around in Slovenia and Austria). So I decided I would try to sell the poor SWR despite the sound and search for something smaller.

One guy offered to trade in his GK Neo 112-II for my SWR to which I agreed. Always wanted to try the all so famous GK NEO line (plus, I was heavily attacked on this forum already for dissing the lightweight stuff and favouring heavy weight equipment so trying it out after so many advices here I thought I simply should).

Let me say a few things about the GK's NEO 112 - guys, guys, guys... Is this really the way we build cabs today? I mean, so much resonance from the cab it is basically ridiculous. First thing when I tried it at home at a certain volume I immediately noticed an extremely annoying
farting sound on low frequencies. First thing I said to myself - oh great, bought a blown up cab. I realised that a blown up speaker wouldn't just generate farting sound on certain frequencies, especially if the farting settles on lower volume. As a result, I have spent probably like 5 hours just playing a single note, trying hard to locate the source of the noise. Alone I didn't do much, yet after opening the back panel (crossover, speakon etc.) I quickly noticed that the 10W22ohm resistor (forgive me if this is not the correct english word but you probably know what I mean) has simply detached from one of the bulbs. I soldered the damn thing back on, trying to figure out how it managed to detach in the first place... The cab itself looks brand new so I couldn't find any signs of aggressive handling on the previous owner's behalf. Nothing really changed but now at least I have the thing fixed.

The rattling still stayed though. So I brought the cab to a local meistro for cabinets and he quickly realised, after plugging the cab into a frequency generator, that there was a heavy rattle coming out from the cab handles. We unscrewed the handles, glued the handles back and added extra padding for the handles itself so they don't rub on the metal when playing.

I came home, the rattling still persisted, this time even worse. This time I decided to open the cab for sure, put the speaker out and see whats inside. What awaited me was very disappointing. One of the strengthener columns inside the box has a very mellow and dark sound when being pressed or knocked on while the other sounds healthy (I am not sure if you understand me here, but it sounds/feels as that part of wood isn't glued properly on it's place). The quality of the plywood itself is a big big disappointment. I literally haven't seen such a bad piece of plywood in a very very long time. Badly pressed together, really bad granulation, all in all, the wood quality in this cab is depressing.

The internal isolation of the cab = absolute zero, very thin walls and no additional parts to help keep the resonance at bay.

The front panel of the cab also resonates like crazy. It would at least need dampeners (which it doesn't have) and a few more screws at the top and bottom of the cab (there it's the worst really).

Basically the whole cab resonates somewhere.

The sound itself is pretty ok, enough lows but quite a bit too harsh on the trebles. But ok those are my personal preferences, I simply love that nice silky sizzle on the top and that's not happening with this cab although it really did with my previous SWR.

All this makes me wonder and I really mean in a bad way. I was about to order a GK 212 Neo but now... I am just set back a lot. I had high opinion on GK's gear and always thought that they are a high quality brand, based on this forums reviews they are supposed to have a high build quality and high quality of their top range products in general which the NEO series are supposed to be.

Right now, I am in a quite the opposite mood. I don't know if I even want to keep the 112 NEO or should I sell it right away. If I decide to keep it, I might aswell build myself a custom cab casing since the original one just fails on every perspective. For now, I put a bit of foam inside to make things better and it is much better. Still far from the quality the SWR had for example.

As for buying the NEO 212... I am really not sure anymore. Thinking about selling it all and switching to Aguilar or something similar, trying to find my luck there.

Are the NEO 212's better built than the 112's? How is it with the wood quality? Cos if it's the same as with the 112 I would rather just get the speakers and build my own casing.

Now I might be delicate, but to be honest, this is not the way you should build cabs in that price range. Even my old Hartke 4.5XL has a much higher wood quality than this.

My old friend which is a highly skilled and knowledgable luthier and cabinet "knower" said plainly : "this has to be a joke right? The cab itself is complete crap in quality but the speakers sound nice", when he looked upon the internals of the GK NEO 112-II and specifically the quality of the wood.

This is not an attempt of mine to diss the GK as a brand, I am just looking for some explanation - did I just get a crap built cab and the rest are in a much better state?

Although I doubt that you use a different wood in the other NEO cabs so I guess that stays at the crap zone anyways...

Plus there is a bunch of videos on youtube of people showing or expressing the same resonance problems as I have on their NEO 115's and even some 410's.

I would prefer to actually get an answer to this directly from Mr. Krueger himself, I know that his account resides on this forum. Rag or something like that is it?

All in all, disappointed. Was looking forward to order some additional GK cabs and had a nice GAS for them but now I am just wandering in plain dark.

What alternatives are there? I am searching for a nice silky, clean sound with silky highs. Funk, jazz, rock, R&B etc. are my genre domains. I am playing mainly a Jazz Bass. Would aguilar do the trick?

I got extremly surprised when hearing the fEARless F112 on youtube and even though it's just youtube, it sounded really amazing. To bad I can't do nothing about it in Europe since they don't have a workshop here and I don't want to have to deal with import.

Aguilar? TC electro? I dislike MarkBass, I just can't appreciate their sound and although there are many bass players who's sound I dig and they use MarkBass eq (Micheal League for example) I simply feel like crap when playing through them. They don't give me that vibe you know.

EBS maybe?

Sorry for any typos, it is a long post so anything is possible.

 

[Sparkl]

To add the last thing - the cab still rattles. Much less than before but I still notice it a lot. Which kills the whole vibe to me. It is completely clear to me now that the original casing of the cab either needs a complete deconstructing and isolation and strengthening treatment or I need to construct myself a new cab from better material.

Makes me wonder - why do every NEO series come in completely lightweight packages? I mean, you could use better and heavier wood and present a NEO cab like that. Add those few kg/pounds to it but drastically reduce resonating issues as a result? Sounds like a great deal to me.

Or are neo speakers specifically designed to work with lighter materials in general and the heavier components eat the speakers output?

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

To add the last thing - the cab still rattles. Much less than before but I still notice it a lot. Which kills the whole vibe to me. It is completely clear to me now that the original casing of the cab either needs a complete deconstructing and isolation and strengthening treatment or I need to construct myself a new cab from better material.

Makes me wonder - why do every NEO series come in completely lightweight packages? I mean, you could use better and heavier wood and present a NEO cab like that. Add those few kg/pounds to it but drastically reduce resonating issues as a result? Sounds like a great deal to me.

Or are neo speakers specifically designed to work with lighter materials in general and the heavier components eat the speakers output?

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble. I can only imagine how frustrating this can be.
So, as I read your story I kept wondering. Didn't you try the cab before trading it?
Some of the issues you discuss could be due to getting what we often call a "lemon."
But it is used, and if you didn't give it a good workout before making the trade, then there's not much more to be said.
Have you tried discussing this with the person you traded with?
It seems that something as bad as you described is also something that the owner would have known about.
Did he fail to disclose the issues? Did you ask about it's operating condition?

 

[Sparkl]

I'm sorry to hear about your trouble. I can only imagine how frustrating this can be.
So, as I read your story I kept wondering. Didn't you try the cab before trading it?
Some of the issues you discuss could be due to getting what we often call a "lemon."
But it is used, and if you didn't give it a good workout before making the trade, then there's not much more to be said.
Have you tried discussing this with the person you traded with?
It seems that something as bad as you described is also something that the owner would have known about.
Did he fail to disclose the issues? Did you ask about it's operating condition?

Yeah I know what you mean. To be honest, I tried the cab of course on the spot and it worked fine. We were in a rehearsals room and I didn't even register this problem because usually you have resonating issues all over the place in these rooms. The drums, parts in the room... I didn't really think that it would be an issue as I never had such a case before and I have traded quite some cabs already.

I also didn't drive the cab to the max since I was unsure about it, not knowing the cabs loudness limit and also being aware of the fact that I was handling a 300W cab with almost double the power of my 1001 amp at 8 ohms. Didn't want to break his cab on the spot.

I guess I probably got the "lemon" yeah. Although I tested the speakers through a frequency generator and they operate fine both the speaker and the tweeter. So nothing blown there. But all this really cannot set aside the fact that the wood quality of these cabs series is just awful. And resonating issues of the cab are nothing but a factory fail. I mean, as I said, the cab looks brand new, no damage on the outside so I assume it was unlikely for the previous owner to have done any damage on the cab on his own.

And, as I have already stated in the original post, the resonating issues are apparently a standard problem of these series as it seems.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Yeah I know what you mean. To be honest, I tried the cab of course on the spot and it worked fine. We were in a rehearsals room and I didn't even register this problem because usually you have resonating issues all over the place in these rooms. The drums, parts in the room... I didn't really think that it would be an issue as I never had such a case before and I have traded quite some cabs already.

I also didn't drive the cab to the max since I was unsure about it, not knowing the cabs loudness limit and also being aware of the fact that I was handling a 300W cab with almost double the power of my 1001 amp at 8 ohms. Didn't want to break his amp on the spot.

I guess I probably got the "lemon" yeah. Although I tested the speakers through a frequency generator and they operate fine both the speaker and the tweeter. So nothing blown there. But all this really cannot set aside the fact that the wood quality of these cabs series is just awful. And resonating issues of the cab are nothing but a factory fail. I mean, as I said, the cab looks brand new, no damage on the outside so I assume it was unlikely for the previous owner to have done any damage on the cab on his own.

And, as I have already stated in the original post, the resonating issues are apparently a standard problem of these series as it seems.

One thing I was wondering was if the cabinet was in a very humid environment at one time and your reports of the wood condition are a result.

Lessons learned... test in a quiet room. Don't assume the drum vibrations is what you hear. Test it like you plan to play it.

Frequency generators are about as far away from simulating playing conditions as you can get.
Freq. Gens. have their purpose, but don't really tell you a lot about a cab. When's the last time you generated a pure sine wave, without harmonics, by playing your bass? Sine waves are the ultimate in clean, undistorted tone.

You may have a vibration not resonance. Resonance suggest something that happens at one particular frequency and to a lesser extent the harmonics of that frequency. A vibration can happen in response to a resonance but can also just be something loose that rattles at many frequencies like those generated by a bass.

 

[catcauphonic]

Can't speak about the GKs, but i recently purchased this 600w/212-head/cab both used, and there ain't nothing flimsy or farty about it in sound or feel (granted, i didn't open it up.)

You see these around your used market?

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

Can't speak about the GKs, but i recently purchased this 600w head & cab both used, and there ain't nothing flimsy or farty about it in sound or feel (granted, i didn't open it up.)

View attachment 1028392

It almost makes me wonder now if he got a knock off cab?

 

[Sparkl]

One thing I was wondering was if the cabinet was in a very humid environment at one time and your reports of the wood condition are a result.

Lessons learned... test in a quiet room. Don't assume the drum vibrations is what you hear. Test it like you plan to play it.

Frequency generators are about as far away from simulating playing conditions as you can get.
Freq. Gens. have their purpose, but don't really tell you a lot about a cab. When's the last time you generated a pure sine wave, without harmonics, by playing your bass? Sine waves are the ultimate in clean, undistorted tone.

You may have a vibration not resonance. Resonance suggest something that happens at one particular frequency and to a lesser extent the harmonics of that frequency. A vibration can happen in response to a resonance but can also just be something loose that rattles at many frequencies like those generated by a bass.

About the humid environment - I couldn't tell. The wood is not "wet" on touch (not literally wet but you know what I mean) and the only GK cab of NEO series I ever laid my hands on was this 112. So I can only speak from my experience with this little cab. That's why I'm asking here to find more info about this particular issue. I would like to know if the wood quality is that bad in general on NEO series or is it just my cab.

I agree about the freq generator but we used it only to check the spectrum range of the cab to check whether the speakers are OK and to isolate the most troubling frequencies on this cab.

Which brings me to you last paragraph - yes I meant vibrations. I don't know why I used the term resonance. It's late here in Europe you know

The cab is vibrating on certain frequencies or volume and is producing this half rattling half fart sound so there must be something in this cab that does not do its job properly. What it might be is something I am yet to find out.

Now, additionally isolating this cab is one thing, but I cannot replace the wood obviously, and wood quality in this particular case is bothering me quite a bit to be honest. Probably the most.

You know, you can fix basically anything but the wood itself.

Edit: And yeah, I definitely learned my lesson - rehearsal rooms are bad for checking gear.

It's just that, you know... You don't expect these kinds of issues on a higher priced equipment... I mean, it is all basically just a few pieces of wood, couple of wires and the speakers. What could go wrong right?

 

[Al Kraft]

Sorry to hear about your issue with that cabinet. I have two of the same cab, and while I think the build quality is short of top tier/boutique standards, they sound great. Of all the GK Neo's I've heard and played, none struck me as being even close to what your describing. It sounds like you have one that perhaps shouldn't have made it through the QA process, may have a latent defect or could have been damaged/dropped.

FWIW I read somewhere that Bob Gallien and his folks made a conscious decision not to line the cab with acoustic material because they actually felt it sounded better unlined. Properly designed lighter weight cabs can easily sound as good as those that weigh twice as much. I own a number of heavy and lighter weight cabs and it's really the overall design and construction that determine the performance, not the weight or whether they're lined.

IME, based on GK products I'm familiar with and own, the issues with the cab you have are in no way typical of GK gear. I wish you the best of luck in finding a satisfactory resolution. If you can easily contact GK service, that would be a good option in my mind - they are very customer oriented.

 

[catcauphonic]

It almost makes me wonder now if he got a knock off cab?

Hmmm, it's possible. I would trust the GK name to be of better quality than OP described ... though i don't know how their Neo line feels based on personal experience.

 

[Sparkl]

Sorry to hear about your issue with that cabinet. I have two of the same cab, and while I think the build quality is short of top tier/boutique standards, they sound great. Of all the GK Neo's I've heard and played, none struck me as being even close to what your describing. It sounds like you have one that perhaps shouldn't have made it through the QA process, may have a latent defect or could have been damaged/dropped.

FWIW I read somewhere that Bob Gallien and his folks made a conscious decision not to line the cab with acoustic material because they actually felt it sounded better unlined. Properly designed lighter weight cabs can easily sound as good as those that weigh twice as much. I own a number of heavy and lighter weight cabs and it's really the overall design and construction that determine the performance, not the weight or whether they're lined.

IME, based on GK products I'm familiar with and own, the issues with the cab you have are in no way typical of GK gear. I wish you the best of luck in finding a satisfactory resolution. If you can easily contact GK service, that would be a good option in my mind - they are very customer oriented.

Thanks for valuable info man.

Yeah it is kind of hard to contact GK directly since there are no service centres in Europe for it. There are major stores like Thomann for example that can supply you with spare parts for GK aswell (they import straight from the USA) but here we are talking about speakers and other parts. Not the casings themselves.

I agree that the sound is great on these things. As I said, a bit harsh on the tops but its not a big deal. You can tame that with the EQ if needed really.

That's why I'm thinking about measuring the original casings dimensions and replicate the casing but using better wood and glue things together much tighter.

 

[catcauphonic]

Did you look up the specs on GK's website?

Hopefully somebody with the same cab can chime in

 

[Sparkl]

Hmmm, it's possible. I would trust the GK name to be of better quality than OP described ... though i don't know how their Neo line feels based on personal experience.

I am pretty sure that it is not a knockoff since there aren't many custom cab makers here in a few hundred kilometer radius and the cab was purchased in a legit store here in Slovenia. And to be honest, the few cab craftsmen here in Slovenia that I know use good quality woods since we have very high quality forests here... And if they don't use our wood they usually import it from the Baltic.

I mean, it doesn't mean anything really but I find it very highly unlikely believe me. I haven't heard of somebody ever owning a knockoff here for decades. At least not since the fall of Yugoslavia which at the time had their own brands and even those produced own stuff not replicas.

 

[Sparkl]

Did you look up the specs on GK's website?

Hopefully somebody with the same cab can chime in

I did, they match up perfectly. Although, the specs on their website really don't say much. But it's irrelevant. I have the serial no. of course and could probably try to validate it via GK just to make sure but I am comfortable in saying that this cab is a legit thing.

 

[pcake]

i suspect there's something wrong with your cab. i have a GK Neo 112 ll sitting right next to me, and it sounds good all the time. no rattling, no echo, no farting. it made the carvin BX250 head i had when i bought it sound much better and sounds awesome with my LH500. the guy who sold it to me let me play it with his GK MB200, and it sounded good with it, too.

 

[Freightshaker]

I guess you could call me a GK fan. I have 2x112 neo ii's and one 212neo. None of them vibrate. They will resonate at extreme settings especially with tube heads. Somewhere deep in the GK club thread, there are posts about people adding batting/insulation to their cabs. I've been meaning to try it but haven't gotten around to it yet.

 

[DWBass]

I own 2 GK Neo112's. No issues with either. Bear in mind, you went from a 6x10 to a single 12. Are you trying to get the same sound and loudness out of the cab? Add another 12 or try out the 2x12 if you can.

 

[Ant Illington]

It almost makes me wonder now if he got a knock off cab?

I thought the same thing.

Regardless, I also found it ironic that he is skeptical of the attention to detail of the build when he pays little skepticism to his attention to detail in testing the cab before he agreed to the trade.

All in all, there are generally some lemons in any mass produced product but GK works right for most people who buy them ,even if its not their preferred tone.

Full disclosure: I have a 112 and 212. The GK badge on one of them is slightly crooked.

 

[pcake]

I own 2 GK Neo112's. No issues with either. Bear in mind, you went from a 6x10 to a single 12. Are you trying to get the same sound and loudness out of the cab? Add another 12 or try out the 2x12 if you can.

true, if the OP is trying to crank the cab past its limit, that could cause farting and rattling.

 

[davegt666]

I have both the 212 and 112 and use them both regularly at gigs and practice every week. I have never experienced any of those problems before. That's sad to hear honestly. You possibly got a lemon.

You might just be pushing the limits of the cab? A 1x12 is never going to do what a 6x10 did. Just not gonna happen.