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GK NEO 410 vs 212 regarding top end brightness

Rshafer

Rshafer

Dec 21, 2007
125
1
#1
I play GK amps but I am not a big fan of the neo 410. I find the uppermids to be too bright for my taste and they bring out the 'clacking' too much, even with the tweeter turned almost all the way off, treble rolled off of my bass, etc.

Does the GK 212 neo have this same general characteristic of a bright top end, or is it more rounded and even from the lows to highs?
 
#3
I'll let others comment on the differences between those two cabs (12's will typically have a bit less upper mid response).

However, that sound you are talking about sits below the tweeter and the treble control on your bass, and usually comes from that 1K to 2K region at the top end of the drivers.

Turn the tweeter back on a bit, flatten out the treble control of your bass, and then CUT UPPER MIDS on your amp with the upper mid control (which is typically centered around 1K... can't exactly remember on the GK heads). Also, make sure to have that 'presence' knob off (I think that is what GK calls it) since that boosts upper mids right where you typically don't want them (at least with a modern voiced 410).

Try that before you spend cash IMO!
 
#4
Having owned and played both, they seem somewhat even. Meaning their tone is similar. I always though the 410 seemed a little deeper overall. Have you tried EQ'ing it out (stupid question I'm sure)? I've found that the cabs seem very sensitive to EQ, especially GK EQ which is pretty potent, and can change alot with little movement.
 
#5
KJung said:
I'll let others comment on the differences between those two cabs (12's will typically have a bit less upper mid response).

However, that sound you are talking about sits below the tweeter and the treble control on your bass, and usually comes from that 1K to 2K region at the top end of the drivers.

Turn the tweeter back on a bit, flatten out the treble control of your bass, and then CUT UPPER MIDS on your amp with the upper mid control (which is typically centered around 1K... can't exactly remember on the GK heads). Also, make sure to have that 'presence' knob off (I think that is what GK calls it) since that boosts upper mids right where you typically don't want them (at least with a modern voiced 410).

Try that before you spend cash IMO!
Click to expand...

This.
 
#6
Thanks.
Yes, I work with the EQ. I have only tried the neo 410 at GC. I own an SBX 410 and EQ similar to what Ken is stating. Tweeter is about 8-9 o'clock, treble and hi mid at 11 or so. I like the tone pretty well of this cab, but it is 8 ohms and I would like something that is 4ohm. That's why I am curious about the 212. I could order that in 4 ohms.

The 212 comes up a lot on this board so I am just trying to get a sense if it is more similar or different to the 410 neo regarding taming this top end a bit.
GC does not carry them and I have yet to hear one.
 
#7
Mike Shevlin said:
I can't address your question myself, but there is a cool thread on the 212 that you can read here. Tom Bowlus loves the 212 & he knows what he's talking about.
http://www.talkbass.com/forum/showthread.php?t=574793
Click to expand...

I have not spent much time with the Neo410, but I am definitely a fan of the Neo212II and Neo112II. Most of my time in on these cabs has been in conjunction with GK heads, so I have been using the biamp option. This lets you further dial in the amount of high end that you desire (though as Ken points out, that tweeter attenuator is there for a reason).

Tom.
 
#8
tombowlus said:
I have not spent much time with the Neo410, but I am definitely a fan of the Neo212II and Neo112II. Most of my time in on these cabs has been in conjunction with GK heads, so I have been using the biamp option. This lets you further dial in the amount of high end that you desire (though as Ken points out, that tweeter attenuator is there for a reason).

Tom.
Click to expand...

Tom, the separate horn amp is really there to allow the power amp to ride the rails with out sending all the harmonics to the horn. In this system the power amp can hit the rail while the horn amp remains clean. So you can get the growl with out the harmonics coming out the horn and cutting your hair. This feature is not so useful for our competition since their amplifiers aren't designed to spend much time in the rails.
Bob
 
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#9
rag said:
Tom, the separate horn amp is really there to allow the power amp to ride the rails with out sending all the harmonics to the horn. In this system the power amp can hit the rail while the horn amp remains clean. So you can get the growl with out the harmonics coming out the horn and cutting your hair. This feature is not so useful for our competition since their amplifiers aren't designed to spend much time in the rails.
Bob
Click to expand...

Bob:

Yes, I was aware of this, and I love having the control to do just that. It' a great feature, IMHO. Howeve, I also find the biamp ability to be very useful when dialing in a balanced clean tone (without growl).

Tom.
 
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#11
rag said:
Tom, the separate horn amp is really there to allow the power amp to ride the rails with out sending all the harmonics to the horn. In this system the power amp can hit the rail while the horn amp remains clean. So you can get the growl with out the harmonics coming out the horn and cutting your hair. This feature is not so useful for our competition since their amplifiers aren't designed to spend much time in the rails.
Bob
Click to expand...

I'd love to really understand this "hitting the rail" thing.
My current understanding is that GK amps are designed to stay in the 'red zone' where the power amp gives everything it has without sounding overdriven or muddy but instead producing the 'growl' :cool: everybody sings about ?

Could you comment on that or maybe point me to a place where it's detailed a bit more (my knowledge in electronics and electricity is pretty much zero) ?

Thank you ! :bassist:
 
#12
Im about to give up on my neo cabs..i have 112 and 410. The are just too bright sounding imo. I have turned down the tweeter, treble is off, contour is off. and the tone knob on my bass is always off. This reminds me of my struggle with emg pickups.

By the way my amp is the mb fusion.
 
#13
odin70 said:
Im about to give up on my neo cabs..i have 112 and 410. The are just too bright sounding imo. I have turned down the tweeter, treble is off, contour is off. and the tone knob on my bass is always off. This reminds me of my struggle with emg pickups.

By the way my amp is the mb fusion.
Click to expand...

hey Odin,

I also had neo cabinets and Emg pickups, wasn't the sound i was looking for either, I prefer a warm punchy vintage sound
and I wasn't getting it from the above mentioned equipment.

now, there is a debate on TB whether Neo speakers sound different than regular ceramic magnet speakers. Some will argue that magnet material does not effect tone, might be correct
But 1 thing that does effect tone is the lighter woods used to mount these lighter weight Neo Speakers in the cab

my advice is to try out your rig with with ceramic magnet speakers
 
#14
One thing that needs to be said about GK NEO cabs and GK amps hitting the rails.
My NEO 412 does NOT like my 700RB II hitting the rails. Unless farted distorted tones are welcomed on your lower notes.

GK loves to talk about their amps sounding best when they're on the rails, but what they fail to mention is that their cabs aren't the best match for it. Either that, or 700RB II is one of the most overrated amps on TB. But it did sound great with my Ampeg 810 that I used for 2 years!

So now I either need more power, or a different brand of amp with my GK NEO 412.

P.S. I'm not the only one who noticed this with 700RB II. A guy using that amp got himself GK 410RBH and he can't crank it up loud enough without getting those distorted "amp pushing too hard" sounds.

I can't help but feel disappointed in GK because they market their amps to be pushed in their power amp section, and then you see it works great, until you actually pair the amp with a GK cab and get introduced to fartville city.
 
#15
Grabow said:
hey Odin,

I also had neo cabinets and Emg pickups, wasn't the sound i was looking for either, I prefer a warm punchy vintage sound
and I wasn't getting it from the above mentioned equipment.

now, there is a debate on TB whether Neo speakers sound different than regular ceramic magnet speakers. Some will argue that magnet material does not effect tone, might be correct
But 1 thing that does effect tone is the lighter woods used to mount these lighter weight Neo Speakers in the cab

my advice is to try out your rig with with ceramic magnet speakers
Click to expand...

I also prefer a warmer sound. I really thought it would be possible to dial in some some warm sounding bass sounds with my setup, but unfortunately it is not. A good fretless sound is out of the question. Its like when the tweeter is off the cabinet sounds like it should (imo) with the tweeter on. Its a shame because i think the amp (mb fusion) and the neo cabinets are really good. Here i go again..the never ending search for THE bass amp/cabinet.
 
#18
mouthmw said:
Either that, or 700RB II is one of the most overrated amps on TB. But it did sound great with my Ampeg 810 that I used for 2 years!
Click to expand...

This. The 700rbII is a beast of an amp, and you're right, it sounds incredible through a Ampeg 810. But really, the GK 12's are great sounding cabs, especially for the dough, and for the schlep. The sacrifice in using the 12's is that you have to be more creative with your gain settings and eq. I've never had a problem with the "farted distorted tones" you mention, unless I was running in 5strg mode and/or the lows boosted (which i would do when playing the 810).

I also think comparing a sealed 810 with a ported 410 or 412 is a bit unrealistic.
 
#20
When I auditioned a 410 it sounded like it had a lot of bass and hi fi sheen. But that was in a store. I have a Neo 115 that I really dig. I turn the tweeter down and it just sounds full without any exaggerated response ranges. It does the B very well. In all my jam sessions the 115 is plenty and blows away the Aggie GS112. I had to pair the Aggie with a second cabinet or the sound suffered. No so with the Neo 115. In fact is sounds so good I keep talking myself out of buying a second one.
 
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