Global Warming - It's Our Fault

[Tituscrow]

So this report comes out today...and I was wondering if it would spark a civilised discussion. Of course, the temptation to veer off at a tangent and accuse politicians, oil companies or environmentalists of having an agenda is great, but I'm hoping we can keep it within TB rules.

This is the science. The facts, unbiased and without opinion.

Anyone work in this field? Anyone have any experience of this kind of research?

Genuinely interested...but mods, feel free to shift to the lobby or delete if it gets out of hand.

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[bassinplace]

I think George Carlin summed up my feelings on the topic perfectly;

"The planet will be here for a long, long, LONG time after we're gone, and it will heal itself, it will cleanse itself, 'cause that's what it does. It's a self-correcting system. The air and the water will recover, the earth will be renewed, and if it's true that plastic is not degradable, well, the planet will simply incorporate plastic into a new pardigm: the earth plus plastic. The earth doesn't share our prejudice towards plastic. Plastic came out of the earth. The earth probably sees plastic as just another one of its children. Could be the only reason the earth allowed us to be spawned from it in the first place. It wanted plastic for itself. Didn't know how to make it. Needed us. Could be the answer to our age-old egocentric philosophical question, "Why are we here?" Plastic!"

 

[slobake]

Nice article. I can't comment from a professional standpoint. As a human being living on this planet I believe that if we don't change our ways the dire predictions will come about. I believe we are already seeing them and it will get worse.
I am lucky enough to live in an urban enviroment where I can ride my bike to work. I know not everyone can do that and not everyone can afford a hybrid or electric car. We can however try and use high mileage cars when we can and also share ride and take alternative transportation or walk when possible.
There are also a lot of small things that if we all did would make a difference. Like hanging our clothes out instead of putting them in the dryer, lowering our thermostats just a little bit in the winter. Etc, etc.
I do believe that big companies can also participate but that is not my call. I work for a pretty big company and I do small things here too. I print a lot of documents but I try and keep it to a minimum by only printing what is necessary. We are slowly converting to total electronic files but there is a lot of resistence from my co-workers. Some of them a lot younger than me and already set in their ways. They seem to think that dealing with PDF's is more difficult than working with a hard copy. I also turn off my computer every night.
I think if we all pause and look at how we live we can make a difference. Especially those of us in affluent countries.

 

[Tituscrow]

Indeed. It's hard to remain motivated to 'do your bit', when you see very little else being done by others.

Also, the 'bit' that you do, as an individual, is so insignificantly small in the grand scheme of things, that its often tempting to think 'why bother' because it makes such little difference.

We will all be dead, as will our kids, but I'd like to think our grand kids will acknowledge the effort we made for them in decades to come when the problems reach almost insurmountable levels.

 

[bass12]

Indeed. It's hard to remain motivated to 'do your bit', when you see very little else being done by others.

Also, the 'bit' that you do, as an individual, is so insignificantly small in the grand scheme of things, that its often tempting to think 'why bother' because it makes such little difference.

We will all be dead, as will our kids, but I'd like to think our grand kids will acknowledge the effort we made for them in decades to come when the problems reach almost insurmountable levels.

I tend to "bother" not because I think it will make a difference (I don't think it will - not enough of one anyway) but because I figure it's the right thing to do.

 

[Webtroll]

I think it's the right thing to do as well, but every time I hear about one of these studies someone comes out with another that counters it. I have no idea if we're causing it, but we can certainly do a better job of cleaning up after ourselves regardless.

 

[MatticusMania]

I tend to "bother" not because I think it will make a difference (I don't think it will - not enough of one anyway) but because I figure it's the right thing to do.

Yes, it is the right thing to do.
However, I disagree that it won't make a difference. It does, even if its a small difference.
And the more people that are out there making a small difference, well... the bigger a difference it will make.

I think it's the right thing to do as well, but every time I hear about one of these studies someone comes out with another that counters it. I have no idea if we're causing it, but we can certainly do a better job of cleaning up after ourselves regardless.

Exactly. Whether we're causing global warming or not (Ive personally always been of the belief that we do contribute to it) living in a manner that is in harmony with our enviroment can only be a good thing. There are no negative repercussions to treating our home the best we can.

 

[hrodbert696]

Exactly. Whether we're causing global warming or not (Ive personally always been of the belief that we do contribute to it) living in a manner that is in harmony with our enviroment can only be a good thing. There are no negative repercussions to treating our home the best we can.

+1. My politics are generally conservative, but this one seems like a no-brainer to me, and I can't understand how it became a liberal-vs-conservative thing. Well, I can, but it's stupid. One should always behave in a way that will minimize any potential negative consequences. If the consequences are uncertain, one should use extra caution. If it's 95% likely that the road you're driving on dead-ends at a cliff, you don't hit the gas on the reasoning that it's 5% likely it doesn't.

One thing I try to aim for is not to do anything on a powered device that I could do without one. E-readers bug me because I'm sure you do more damage powering the things up over and over again (and powering up the servers for whatever cloud your book is stored on) than was done from cutting down a tree just one time to make a paper book. But it seems like, ironically, the biggest thing each individual does is try to control their temperature with heating and air conditioning. Setting the thermostats a few degrees lower in winter and higher in summer would do the world a load of good.

 

[Unrepresented]

Indeed. It's hard to remain motivated to 'do your bit', when you see very little else being done by others.

Also, the 'bit' that you do, as an individual, is so insignificantly small in the grand scheme of things, that its often tempting to think 'why bother' because it makes such little difference.

We will all be dead, as will our kids, but I'd like to think our grand kids will acknowledge the effort we made for them in decades to come when the problems reach almost insurmountable levels.

Individually, little matters. Collectively, we've managed to shape our collective lives and planet.

I think it's the right thing to do as well, but every time I hear about one of these studies someone comes out with another that counters it. I have no idea if we're causing it, but we can certainly do a better job of cleaning up after ourselves regardless.

There is little to no "science" disproving global warming. There is skepticism voiced as "science" but among scientists and especially scientists in the field, it's established.

 

[Jim Nazium]

... There are no negative repercussions to treating our home the best we can.

I agree. However, I don't think it is true that it would be costless to significantly reduce the burning of fossil fuels. There are hundreds of millions of poor people in China and India who would like not to be poor. Getting out of poverty requires energy, and the cheapest, most readily available source of energy for them is to burn coal. It's one thing to ask people in rich countries to be a little less wasteful, drive more efficient cars, etc. It's quite another thing to ask millions of people with no refrigerators or air conditioners to just stay poor while we figure this out.

There will be costs to living on a hotter planet, and there will be costs to using less fossil fuel. I think we would do well to tone down some of the shrill rhetoric and examine those costs with a cool head.

 

[rogersjoe]

Well at least you can take the blame. I won't. The planet was here before I came. It'll be here when I'm gone. And the planet will never go away, it may kill us off, but the planet will be fine. Making way for a new civilization. There were many species before us, and there will be many after us.

 

[two fingers]

Uh...... even the best science is wrong every now and then.
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Sure, I recycle. Waste is just dumb from a lot of standpoints. But we couldn't kill this planet (without nukes) if we tried everything we knew to do. We;re just not that big.

So, how do we explain that during pretty much the entire global warming scare period there hasn't BEEN ANY? During the 70s it was global cooling. We were killing the planet by blocking out the sun with our destructive ways. Then it was global warming..... uh..... with "proof". Then emails were released saying that a lot of the "science" was exaggerated. Now, there hasn't been any at all in over 17 years.

Sure, I'll do my part for the environment. Things should be cleaner. Nobody should waste. These are just common sense.

But I'm not sold on global warming.

 

[electracoyote]

Sure, I'll do my part for the environment. Things should be cleaner. Nobody should waste. These are just common sense.

But I'm not sold on global warming.

Sums it up for me.

And to say conservatives don't give a damn about the planet and liberals are all tree hugging planet saviours is a lot of hot air. There is a strong movement by MANY conservatives who want to practice clean earth and conservation strategies, but not because we're in eminent threat of doom, and not because a vocal majority in government want to mandate it, but because it's the right thing to do. There's no need to lean on us with pseudo-science, reams of new laws, and scare tactics.

 

[Clef_de_fa]

I think the planet is heating up but would have aynway, we ( the humain ) just accelerate the whole process.

I also think the planet will survive us, but even if we kill ourselves with the way we treat the planet to sustain our needs, we will also kill every last living things with us. It will take a lot of time and maybe this planet won't be able to sustain life again, maybe once we will have cut the last tree and kill the last cow there won't be anything left.

 

[slobake]

I agree. However, I don't think it is true that it would be costless to significantly reduce the burning of fossil fuels. There are hundreds of millions of poor people in China and India who would like not to be poor. Getting out of poverty requires energy, and the cheapest, most readily available source of energy for them is to burn coal. It's one thing to ask people in rich countries to be a little less wasteful, drive more efficient cars, etc. It's quite another thing to ask millions of people with no refrigerators or air conditioners to just stay poor while we figure this out.

There will be costs to living on a hotter planet, and there will be costs to using less fossil fuel. I think we would do well to tone down some of the shrill rhetoric and examine those costs with a cool head.

I understand your point about poor countries and I agree. I'm not sure if you are talking about shrill rhetoric here on this thread or in other places. I didn't see HRodbert's comment or any other comments here so far as shrill rhetoric. I'm guessing that is not what you meant based on other posts I have read by you

 

[Unrepresented]

Uh...... even the best science is wrong every now and then.
Invalid Link Removed

Sure, I recycle. Waste is just dumb from a lot of standpoints. But we couldn't kill this planet (without nukes) if we tried everything we knew to do. We;re just not that big.

So, how do we explain that during pretty much the entire global warming scare period there hasn't BEEN ANY? During the 70s it was global cooling. We were killing the planet by blocking out the sun with our destructive ways. Then it was global warming..... uh..... with "proof". Then emails were released saying that a lot of the "science" was exaggerated. Now, there hasn't been any at all in over 17 years.

Sure, I'll do my part for the environment. Things should be cleaner. Nobody should waste. These are just common sense.

But I'm not sold on global warming.

If you were that skeptical about all science, that'd be reasonable. But you undoubtedly accept the vast majority of scientific positions. You trust that our cameras don't steal your soul, or that jet planes are witchcraft. You type your responses on a series of electronic devices using ones and zeros, satellites and processors synchronized throughout land and space. You take it for granted until it perhaps might conflict with your perceived financial interests. Doesn't that strike you as a conflict of interests?

 

[Jim Nazium]

I understand your point about poor countries and I agree. I'm not sure if you are talking about shrill rhetoric here on this thread or in other places. I didn't see HRodbert's comment or any other comments here so far as shrill rhetoric. I'm guessing that is not what you meant based on other posts I have read by you

Sorry, I meant shrill rhetoric in other places - certain cable TV channels, etc.

 

[Immigrant]

I'm not sold on global warming, but I'm definitely sold on climate change. I'm also sold on the possibility that the corporations that stand to lose the most (or just not gain as much) from man-made global climate change being proven have the cash to suppress or argue it to the point that efforts to reduce it are slowed.

We should all have solar panels on all of out roofs. And the original electric car shouldn't have been shredded.

 

[slobake]

Sorry, I meant shrill rhetoric in other places - certain cable TV channels, etc.

Just as I suspected. So by the great authority given me here by no one I will allow you to continue posting.

 

[bass12]

Yes, it is the right thing to do.
However, I disagree that it won't make a difference. It does, even if its a small difference.
And the more people that are out there making a small difference, well... the bigger a difference it will make.



Exactly. Whether we're causing global warming or not (Ive personally always been of the belief that we do contribute to it) living in a manner that is in harmony with our enviroment can only be a good thing. There are no negative repercussions to treating our home the best we can.

If that were true then we wouldn't have as much of a problem. Unfortunately a lot of the worst stuff we do to our planet is very good for the economy and the job market and that is what most people, it would seem, have at the top of their list of priorities.