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Global Warming - It's Our Fault

#41
Here is some reading about Skeptical Science........
http://www.masterresource.org/2010/08/skeptical-science-website/

http://www.populartechnology.net/2012/03/truth-about-skeptical-science.html
Turns out Mr.John Cook is a cartoonist, not a scientist.

Soooooooooooooooo I think the guy has an agenda..... and perhaps an ax to grind.

He dismisses things like petitions signed by a metric ton of scientists as having been signed by "a few".

Plus, in the first article, the best point I have read so far on the whole debate is this.

"For instance, his answer to the consensus matter (#3) is that “97% of climatologists support AGW.” Well that in itself is debatable, but nowhere do I see any discussion that addresses the larger issue: the fact that science is not decided by consensus. What was the consensus of 99% of the “experts” about the solar system in Galileo’s time? Twenty-five years ago what was the consensus of 99% of the “experts” about the cause of ulcers? In both cases (and in many others) 99% of the experts were 100% wrong. That is exactly why science is not decided by consensus."


As far as history goes, we are still very young as a race. Why do we as humans always assume that OUR VERSION of cutting edge science is CORRECT, when hardly any of it has been over our history?

Unrepresented actually MAKES this point without knowing it. How many times has the "science" shifted on the topic of swimming and eating? For YEARS we were told that you can't swim right after eating because you could get cramps and drown. Now we are told that right after eating is when you are LEAST likely to get cramps. (And this was just a few years ago.) So, with all our scientific mistakes, why do we ALWAYS assume that THIS TIME we got it right?

No, sir. Your links to Skeptical Science don't change my mind at all. Mr.Cook is a hack with an agenda.
 
#49
I don't know what the future holds but history repeats itself. The poles will change because they do every so many hundred thousand years. There will be another ice age because that is a cycle also.
What about the science that all the other planets are warming also. Think about this, in the middle ages there was what we now call the little ice age. You can't blame industry for that.
 
#54
Tituscrow said:
So this report comes out today...and I was wondering if it would spark a civilised discussion. Of course, the temptation to veer off at a tangent and accuse politicians, oil companies or environmentalists of having an agenda is great, but I'm hoping we can keep it within TB rules.

This is the science. The facts, unbiased and without opinion.

Anyone work in this field? Anyone have any experience of this kind of research?

Genuinely interested...but mods, feel free to shift to the lobby or delete if it gets out of hand.

Link Removed
Click to expand...

Oil company do not force people to drive large gas guzzling vehicles. They don't force people to give birth to planet destroying pollution creating devices.

People choose to do this.

I used to work in the environmental field. Everyone who heard this would say, So you're the one creating all this pollutiion! With their SUV parked out side so they can cart their three pollution creating devices to and from their McMansion.

People create pollution. People are creating what ever planetary climate changes are happening. And recall that until recently the issue wasn't global warming but global chilling.

And people will prevent science from slowing the destruction or even ending it.
 
#55
The jury is definitely still out on just how much climate change is caused by humans. A few very good points. First off, historically, 99% of the time scientists have been dead wrong. About everything. Second, it's pretty damn arrogant of mankind to believe they possess the power to destroy that which THEY DID NOT CREATE.

It has been shown that these "Unbiased climate scientists", emailed each other continuously discussing ways to manipulate data to show results they desired as opposed to actual unbiased results. The recent report bears this out. NO GLOBAL WARMING during the ENTIRE LENGTH of this global warming CRISIS.

Another great point. All of the people whining about the evil oil companies are still driving their automobiles to work. You " environmentally conscious" folks with hybrids or electric cars do NOT get a pass either. Your carbon footprint is LARGER than those of us with the hated internal combustion engines. This is fact. It's also funny how every single viable alternative to coal and oil has been systematically demonized by the same environmentalists. I guess the only true green energy is wind and solar? Yeah, let's see you support yourselves using only that energy.

Guess no one has paid attention to Al Gore's electric bill? Or how much stock in oil Al Gore owns?


Bottom line is this. I have no issue with folks trying to do what they think is environmentally moral. I am a conservationist and also have a vested interest in trying to do as little damage as possible to the earth while I am on it. That said, you make it impossible for me to support myself or my family, then you are my enemy. Period.
 
#57
two fingers said:
Here is some reading about Skeptical Science........
http://www.masterresource.org/2010/08/skeptical-science-website/

http://www.populartechnology.net/2012/03/truth-about-skeptical-science.html
Turns out Mr.John Cook is a cartoonist, not a scientist.

Soooooooooooooooo I think the guy has an agenda..... and perhaps an ax to grind.

He dismisses things like petitions signed by a metric ton of scientists as having been signed by "a few".

Plus, in the first article, the best point I have read so far on the whole debate is this.

"For instance, his answer to the consensus matter (#3) is that “97% of climatologists support AGW.” Well that in itself is debatable, but nowhere do I see any discussion that addresses the larger issue: the fact that science is not decided by consensus. What was the consensus of 99% of the “experts” about the solar system in Galileo’s time? Twenty-five years ago what was the consensus of 99% of the “experts” about the cause of ulcers? In both cases (and in many others) 99% of the experts were 100% wrong. That is exactly why science is not decided by consensus."


As far as history goes, we are still very young as a race. Why do we as humans always assume that OUR VERSION of cutting edge science is CORRECT, when hardly any of it has been over our history?

Unrepresented actually MAKES this point without knowing it. How many times has the "science" shifted on the topic of swimming and eating? For YEARS we were told that you can't swim right after eating because you could get cramps and drown. Now we are told that right after eating is when you are LEAST likely to get cramps. (And this was just a few years ago.) So, with all our scientific mistakes, why do we ALWAYS assume that THIS TIME we got it right?

No, sir. Your links to Skeptical Science don't change my mind at all. Mr.Cook is a hack with an agenda.
Click to expand...

The information is available from many sources. You can easily find them but his site does a good job of breaking down the science and is constantly edited by climatologists. Of course he dismisses that ridiculous petition signed by scientists, the majority of whom have zero to do with climate studies. Any thinking person would reject it too. Do you take medical advice from your auto mechanic? Or car repair advice from your cardiologist?

Science is not decided by consensus, it is decided by facts. But when 97% of the scientists who study this have the same conclusion then that is what we go with until or unless something better comes around. Uneducated politicians resistant to change don't count in the debate about science. When it comes to policy sure they get involved but this whole machine that is setup to obfuscate the science and confuse the layperson is wrong. The fact that so many have swallowed it is a sad commentary on our school systems.
 
#58
Global warming is undesirable as we humans understand it. Whatever the cause. However: global cooling is far more scary in what it could do to human populations.

If we start cooling the earth - we might just get what we ask for, and then some.

If the earth does get "too hot" we will probably find ways to cool it down. If the earth gets too cold - then what will we do?
 
#59
Floyd Eye said:
The jury is definitely still out on just how much climate change is caused by humans. A few very good points. First off, historically, 99% of the time scientists have been dead wrong. About everything. Second, it's pretty damn arrogant of mankind to believe they possess the power to destroy that which THEY DID NOT CREATE.

It has been shown that these "Unbiased climate scientists", emailed each other continuously discussing ways to manipulate data to show results they desired as opposed to actual unbiased results. The recent report bears this out. NO GLOBAL WARMING during the ENTIRE LENGTH of this global warming CRISIS.
Click to expand...

I call BS, let's see your link for the 99%.

Mankind has a history of destroying what we did not create. How many species were hunted extinction? Have you ever broken something? Unless you make your own appliances, furniture, clothes, etc then you do destroy other things. That's not meant to be a flippant answer, just extrapolate your/my/our normal behavior out to billions.

Climategate has been investigated numerous times. While completely unethical and unforgivable for the few people involved, it's not some vast conspiracy, the only people who still believe that are simply uninformed.

The distrust of scientists and more so of critical thinking seems to be like a badge of honor among a very vocal conservative minority in the USA.
 
#60
goneflyin said:
As we all sit around happily surrounded by things made in China, Indonesia, India etc- the worst offenders in terms of polluting and destroying the environment.:eyebrow:
Click to expand...

Its my opinion that I fear a certain level of racism emanates from your post.

The fact is there is not need to buy from these nations if you don't want to.

My Bryston stereo gear proves the North Americans can still manufacture quality goods are a competitive price.

My American made Woolrich jacket likewise.
 

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