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Double Bass Gluing the Fishman BP100

B

Bassalova

Nov 16, 2008
88
0
#1
Hi guys and girls.

I´m new on this forum, althought I´ve been reading the Forum frequently ever since I purchased my first Double Bass 3 years ago. In winter 2008 i switched it out with a beautiful 30 year old Grunert, and am very happy with it.

I purchased a BP100 from a female colleague in town due to very nice retail price, and now I am checking out the best way to mount it to the bridge. I´ve read a little about gluing the piezos to the bridge, but there´s a small concern that I won´t get any sound. The reason why I say so is because I tried using doublesided carpet-tape to "glue" the piezos to the bridge. The result was no sound.

Anyone got ideas on this topic? Will the piezos pick up sound when use hot glue (or something), or does BP100 need the clamps to maintain enought pressure to the piezo elements?

Would be nice to know this before I glue the pickup to the bridge, just to find out the pickup is dead silent.

By the way; pardon my english, if it´s bad. I´m from Norway :hyper:
 
#2
I have a BP-100 that I use on my Christopher Flatback from time to time(when I can't play acoustic), and I have tried mounting it both ways... It actually sounds great on this bass with the clamps. I did try mounting it with hot glue, and it sounded brutal. Really thin and twangy sounding. With the clamps, it sounds really good for whatever reason. I haven't had much luck with them before. Not sure if this helps, but one word of caution. The hot glue is very hard to get off of the bridge once its on there, so if you are going to experiment be prepared!
 
#3
I haven't tried gluing (hot or otherwise) yet but I've had good luck with the clips. The key with the clips is to get the right pressure. Too much and the sound is choked, too little and the sound gets thin. Use a pair of needle nose pliers to open the clips slightly or squeeze them shut slightly until you get optimum pressure. You may also want to lightly sand with light grain sandpaper the part of the bridge where the piezos sit to make sure the surface is even. And lastly, try mounting the piezos on both the top and the bottom of the bridge. They're supposed to go on the top but I've found that they sometimes work better mounted on the bottom.

Note: I've had 8 basses and the BP-100 worked great on 3 of them, ok on 1 and didn't work at all on the other 4. If you can't get a decent sound after doing all of the above, the BP-100 might not be for your bass.

mark
 
#4
hehe.....I´ve read this reply before.
Anyways....I´ve been thinking about mounting the piezos on the bottom of the bridge, then it´s sort of like a "Underwood position". But in that case I need bigger clamps. Any ideas?
 
#8
Yes, Adrian. Have already tried that. The "back" of my bridge is actually 100% flat, so this is my only solution for mounting with the clips. I think this also is better regarding the pickup wires. Better to keep the wire mess off the bridge than running it through the bridge, like Fishman wants it to be. Think I´ll cut the lenght in half and solder the wires back to the jack. need just half the wire lenght.
 
#9
I think the reason that the clamps on the BP100 result in good sound is the nature of piezo elements. Recall that piezo materials generate a voltage by minute deformations of the piezo element caused from a proper coupling with a vibrating medium. It works both ways since an applied voltage to a piezo tweeter (such as the Motorola KSN series) causes deformation of the element and generates an acoustic output from its coupling with the air. The amount of the deformation is very small and explains why piezos are used for tweeters and are also horn-loaded to help amplify the small acoustic output of the element.

The piezo element requires some hard coupling to the bridge (pressing it against the bridge) in order for the vibrations to deform the element and generate a voltage. This does not occur with just glue or tape, at least optimally, and explains why, besides no sound being created, there may be an unpleasant output. The glued/taped element just moves with the glue or tape without any, or at least minimal, deformation of the element occurring.

Wedging the BP100 in the bridge wings the same as the Underwood pickup also creates the hard coupling with the bridge so that the transmitted vibrations from the strings causes deformation of the element and generates a voltage to the preamp. But I'd be willing to bet that the quality of the resultant sound might be somewhat different from that generated from its usual mounting on the flat surface of the bridge using the steel clamps that come with the pickup.

Just my 2 cents.

Lloyd Howard
 
#10
Once I had traveled to Europe, lost the clamps for the Fishman on the way that i was to use on a rental. Nothing seemed to work as well as the clamps they provide. I found experimenting top, bottom and how close to the edge of the bridge makes a difference. If you don't have the clamps that come with the pickup you can get them cheap at most any place that sells for double bass
 
#11
I read this awhile back on Bob G's site thought it was relevant.

Quote from Bob's site,
" Finally, if you've come here looking for replacement mounting clips, since your pickup's stock clips popped off into the fifth dimension (dark corners of dusty stages), let me make an alternative suggestion. While I could make a couple bucks off selling you replacements, you can grab a couple small notebook clips at Staples or Office Depot. Clip them on, then slide out the chrome handle. They are tighter, cheaper, and the basic black looks better than chrome IMHO. "
 
#12
Ive had a BP 100 for yrs.
1st, I hope you got the preamp or its worthless in my opinion.
I used to have it on an old 51 Kay, before it imploded. I clipped to treble side F hole. For a good deep bluegrass thud, that was the best.
Here lately I got a new Roma ply from Ideal, and superglued the transducers to the back side of the bridge, sounded pretty good, better there than clipped to bridge, or f hole like on the old kay.
But I recently had the luthier remove it when he lowered my action some. I'll probably just use a mic for a while and maybe get a full circle at some point. The BP100 is really old technology and there are a lot better pickups out there now IMO.

Try the clips in a lot of different places, not just on top of the bridge, every bass is different and will respond differently.String choice is anotehr varible. Every player is different as far as what he likes or what application he needs a pickup for.

edit:
Great idea about the office supply notebook clips! My clips were getting really worn out was the main reason I went the glue route last time. I may put my BP100 back on for a while and try that!
 
#13
I would recommend using the clips, and adjusting the clip tension with needle-nose pliers, as mentioned above.

If it sounds thin, lacking bass, then be sure to get a Fishman preamp. The BP-100 is an ultra-high impedance pickup, and most amplifier inputs are looking for a much lower impedance. I have an Acoustic Image Coda R amp (1 MegOhm input impedance), and this works fine for my BassMax and Realist pickups, but for the BP-100 I would recommend a pre-amp for that amp too. The Fishman pre-amps (many models, depending on how many features, eq, etc you want) have a 10 MegOhm input, and they are all available at gollihurmusic.com.

Note: I have no connection to Fishman, or Gollihur Music, but I have had excellent experiences dealing with Bob Gollihur.
 

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