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Go behind his back?

Jul 11, 2021
761
2,660
Well, usually the answer to this should always be a very clear "no", but hear me out...

Hi everyone!

I am on the point of forming a hobby band together with some guys. We don't know each other and just responded to each others search adds. Next week we are about to meet for the third time, and I don't know how to handle the guitarist situation.

Like I said, we are forming a hobby band. We want to play some shows, but no rush. No financial goals whatsoever. It is mostly about getting together once a week to make some music and have a good time.

First meeting was just about to get to know each other. Drummer, singer, guitarist and me going out for drinks. Drummer, singer and me are hitting it off straight away and have a fun night. The guitarist comes across as a bit strange and left very early. He said that he just recently bought an electric guitar, but that he has played classical guitar for a long time. We all agreed that we were a bist skeptical, but that maybe he proved to be an interesting player because of his background.

Second meeting, now with instruments, trying to jam a few songs. From my perspective, seeing the guitarist was physically painful. He tried playing "Wake Me Up When September Ends", but couldn't get through more than one verse without stumbling over his mistakes and having to start over. He said "Paranoid" was really hard because of the "solo part during the intro" (he meant that four note climb). When he played something I couldn't figure out what he played to save my life, because not only had he no idea how to dial in his amp and especially his distortion, but he heavily bended every string when fretting a chord. He couldn't play a song because he said it was "impossible" to fret one note on third fret and another one on 6th.
And so on.
I felt sorry for the guy, because he was so clearly out of his depth and he knew it - or at least I thought so. In the end I even had the impression that he got aggressive towards me, because while he was struggling with each and every song, I could just play everything from the start (not a brag - we played nothing even remotely complex). So I said nothing, tried to be friendly and expected him to just withdraw.

Now, like I said, I don't know the other guys well, but they didn't say anything, either.

The next day, the guitarist writes in the group chat how much he enjoyed playing with us and that he looked forward to the next time. Which will be next week.

So, here is the deal: I do not have any goals that I want to achieve with this band. I am not a particularly great musician and I don't expect other people to be. But this guy is a complete beginner. I don't think it will be fun for me to watch someone struggle through his first steps on the instrument. But what do i do? If the next session will be as catastrophic, will I just say my piece at the end and see how everybody reacts? Or do I contact the singer and drummer beforehand and ask their opinion? That would feel like going behind the guitarist's back. However, I also want to avoid surprising the drummer and singer and come across as the bad guy pulling a "him or me" situation out of nowhere.

So, what to do?
 
Communicate: you like the Drummer and Singer? Communicate!
Not everyone needs to be in every convo.
The hang was not good, he bailed early?
Seemed weird?

Paranoid? Seriously? Impossible?
One of the first songs my nascent self learned right after smoke on the water (leads took a bit longer on both BIG LOL)
He should be able to chug on power chords (three notes)
He seems accustomed to “cowboy chords”
First position
And unfamiliar with Barre chords : that is a mountain to climb.

The MAIN red flag is
Having to start over due to a mistake or a few mistakes: there are 3 other people playing here!; you made a mistake : continue the song!! This is not homework where you can just rewind the media: how dismissive and selfish.

Perhaps after you all complete the song: ask the rest of the band to repeat/ loop the problem section a couple times. Success? Play the whole song. Success? Move on.
 
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I wouldn't even consider this "going behind his back." It's clear that you don't want to play with him (I wouldn't either), but you don't want to make an executive decision on behalf of everyone else, so you're checking in with the others first. My guess is that they'll agree with you, and then you can let him down as a unified front. That seems perfectly professional to me.
 
In the formative days that you're in, a discussion with the singer and drummer about their opinions on this guitarist does not seem to be "behind" the guitarist's back. In my opinion. You have lots of work to do and if you are already behind your goals now it likely won't get better. And even if they do get better it will take a long time.

If you wait for a long time and then discuss forcing him out, that would be "behind his back" in my opinion. That sucks big time, I've been that odd man out so I can testify to that.

If the 3 of you are on the same page, make it a discussion with the guitarist. I've always felt a personal discussion is best but you have to be careful so that guitarist doesn't feel "ganged up" on if he's the odd man out.

Best of luck.
 
Well, usually the answer to this should always be a very clear "no", but hear me out...

Hi everyone!

I am on the point of forming a hobby band together with some guys. We don't know each other and just responded to each others search adds. Next week we are about to meet for the third time, and I don't know how to handle the guitarist situation.

Like I said, we are forming a hobby band. We want to play some shows, but no rush. No financial goals whatsoever. It is mostly about getting together once a week to make some music and have a good time.

First meeting was just about to get to know each other. Drummer, singer, guitarist and me going out for drinks. Drummer, singer and me are hitting it off straight away and have a fun night. The guitarist comes across as a bit strange and left very early. He said that he just recently bought an electric guitar, but that he has played classical guitar for a long time. We all agreed that we were a bist skeptical, but that maybe he proved to be an interesting player because of his background.

Second meeting, now with instruments, trying to jam a few songs. From my perspective, seeing the guitarist was physically painful. He tried playing "Wake Me Up When September Ends", but couldn't get through more than one verse without stumbling over his mistakes and having to start over. He said "Paranoid" was really hard because of the "solo part during the intro" (he meant that four note climb). When he played something I couldn't figure out what he played to save my life, because not only had he no idea how to dial in his amp and especially his distortion, but he heavily bended every string when fretting a chord. He couldn't play a song because he said it was "impossible" to fret one note on third fret and another one on 6th.
And so on.
I felt sorry for the guy, because he was so clearly out of his depth and he knew it - or at least I thought so. In the end I even had the impression that he got aggressive towards me, because while he was struggling with each and every song, I could just play everything from the start (not a brag - we played nothing even remotely complex). So I said nothing, tried to be friendly and expected him to just withdraw.

Now, like I said, I don't know the other guys well, but they didn't say anything, either.

The next day, the guitarist writes in the group chat how much he enjoyed playing with us and that he looked forward to the next time. Which will be next week.

So, here is the deal: I do not have any goals that I want to achieve with this band. I am not a particularly great musician and I don't expect other people to be. But this guy is a complete beginner. I don't think it will be fun for me to watch someone struggle through his first steps on the instrument. But what do i do? If the next session will be as catastrophic, will I just say my piece at the end and see how everybody reacts? Or do I contact the singer and drummer beforehand and ask their opinion? That would feel like going behind the guitarist's back. However, I also want to avoid surprising the drummer and singer and come across as the bad guy pulling a "him or me" situation out of nowhere.

So, what to do?

It very much depends on how much time and patience you're willing to invest into it.

I've had this exact situation happen to me once in my life - granted we were very young at the time (school days) - and after our previous guitar player left the group we were left with a huge gap and I clearly remember our frontman inviting two guitar players (friends of mine) and I knew exactly at the time that they were pure beginners.

It was tough for a while. They practiced though and in time became very accomplished guitar players (both of them) and they contributed a big chunk in our song-writing and they also proved to have a great taste in music and composition.

If we were acting hastily and decided not to wait on them improving their skills, we would have had completely missed this opportunity. I'm not saying this story always has a happy ending though, so YMMV. All I'm saying is if you're enjoying just the process of being in the band and especially are treating it as a hobby, maybe consider giving the guy a good chance and see where his playing improvement brings him.
 
Well, usually the answer to this should always be a very clear "no", but hear me out...

Hi everyone!

I am on the point of forming a hobby band together with some guys. We don't know each other and just responded to each others search adds. Next week we are about to meet for the third time, and I don't know how to handle the guitarist situation.

Like I said, we are forming a hobby band. We want to play some shows, but no rush. No financial goals whatsoever. It is mostly about getting together once a week to make some music and have a good time.

First meeting was just about to get to know each other. Drummer, singer, guitarist and me going out for drinks. Drummer, singer and me are hitting it off straight away and have a fun night. The guitarist comes across as a bit strange and left very early. He said that he just recently bought an electric guitar, but that he has played classical guitar for a long time. We all agreed that we were a bist skeptical, but that maybe he proved to be an interesting player because of his background.

Second meeting, now with instruments, trying to jam a few songs. From my perspective, seeing the guitarist was physically painful. He tried playing "Wake Me Up When September Ends", but couldn't get through more than one verse without stumbling over his mistakes and having to start over. He said "Paranoid" was really hard because of the "solo part during the intro" (he meant that four note climb). When he played something I couldn't figure out what he played to save my life, because not only had he no idea how to dial in his amp and especially his distortion, but he heavily bended every string when fretting a chord. He couldn't play a song because he said it was "impossible" to fret one note on third fret and another one on 6th.
And so on.
I felt sorry for the guy, because he was so clearly out of his depth and he knew it - or at least I thought so. In the end I even had the impression that he got aggressive towards me, because while he was struggling with each and every song, I could just play everything from the start (not a brag - we played nothing even remotely complex). So I said nothing, tried to be friendly and expected him to just withdraw.

Now, like I said, I don't know the other guys well, but they didn't say anything, either.

The next day, the guitarist writes in the group chat how much he enjoyed playing with us and that he looked forward to the next time. Which will be next week.

So, here is the deal: I do not have any goals that I want to achieve with this band. I am not a particularly great musician and I don't expect other people to be. But this guy is a complete beginner. I don't think it will be fun for me to watch someone struggle through his first steps on the instrument. But what do i do? If the next session will be as catastrophic, will I just say my piece at the end and see how everybody reacts? Or do I contact the singer and drummer beforehand and ask their opinion? That would feel like going behind the guitarist's back. However, I also want to avoid surprising the drummer and singer and come across as the bad guy pulling a "him or me" situation out of nowhere.

So, what to do?
I would hope that all involved would see the problem, and nobody wants to be the bad guy. I'd say go through the next rehearsal. Then have a meeting with everyone but the guitarist, afterwards and see what the consensus is. That will tell you a lot about not only the guitarist's prospects (which seem poor) but also of the other musicians who you think you might want to be further involved with. Who knows, that guitarist, might themselves decline and step away gracefully after another messy practice situation.
 
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Wouldn’t consider this, with new folks, as going behind his back. It is a good idea to get with the others and there thoughts and see if they agree or if there are things for everyone to consider. They’ll most likely be on the same page I think.
 
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I played with a "hobby band" for a year or so and it was quite a lot of fun. We had various levels of ability, including a guitar player who had some similar problems to what you describe. But we were fine with it. We saw improvement over time and he did try hard. We all had our various struggles and it was fun to work on them and improve. But since we didn't need to impress anyone we just worked with it as well as we could. He never nailed that "Peaceful Easy Feeling" guitar solo but got close enough for us.

If you like the guy well enough, let him stay and find another guitarist to add to the group. Maybe he can move to a backup role or play simpler parts. I wouldn't boot him yet.
 
I would hope that all involved would see the problem, and nobody wants to be the bad guy. I'd say go through the next rehearsal. Then have a meeting with everyone but the guitarist, afterwards and see what the consensus is. That will tell you a lot about not only the guitarist's prospects (which seem poor) but also of the other musicians who you think you might want to be further involved with. Who knows, that guitarist, might themselves decline and step away gracefully after another messy practice situation.
I think you have the best idea! Who knows maybe the guitarist went home and shed wood around the clock! But if there is not a marked improvement, Adios!
 
I've been in this exact situation. Nice guys, cool song list that I was eager to play. But the talent level just wan't sufficient for me to want to commit. After two weeks, I emailed them to say "thanks, but I'm just not feeling it and I've decided to bow out. Best of luck finding the right fit." Play the long game. Don't just settle for the easy path to avoid drama.

The other guys may see the writing on the wall, drop the guitar player, and call you back anyway. What doesn't work is keeping your mouth shut and hoping it will get better. Trust me, it won't. I just removed a guitar player from my band. Had I stood up for what I knew was the right move for myself and the band, I could have spared 3 years of frustration and trying to make it work. And that band started as a basement jam session with no goals to gig or grow the band. Things happen and goals/expectations change. We started gigging and established ourselves fairly quickly, and that made it a lot more difficult to remove the weak link who was with us from the beginning.
 
I do not have any goals that I want to achieve with this band.
I mean, you kinda do have goals: You want to play music and enjoy it.
You've said that in many ways in your post without explicitly calling it a goal. But it is. Embrace it.

You already know the skill levels aren't compatible. Peel off the bandaid, talk to the other members of the band for their opinions, and then if there's consensus, tell the guitarist it's not working out.

If nobody else wants to fire the guitarist, gracefully bow out for "personal reasons" and find a band you enjoy playing music in.
 
I'd consult with the drummer and singer. Players know players (for the most part) and I'm sure they agree with you. It would be easier if all three come together and tell the guy he's not a good fit.

If the drummer and singer think he's a great guitar player, then you will be the one that has to leave.
 
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