Go behind his back?

[bassicmike]

I recently went to play with some hobby guys. Basic blues, which sounded nice for an easy no-stress night of music. I've always loved playing the blues. Except. The drummer was awful. Basic beginner old guy with a kit. No chops at all. Stayed long enough to be polite, but really, couldn't get out fast enough. Emailed me about the next get together. No thanks, said I, different musical journeys, etc, etc.

This is what happens with hobby projects if one player can't pull their weight. Those who can are going to disappear on you.

Life's too short for that nonsense.

I can see myself looking for a hobby project sometime in my aged future. But the music is gonna have to be good enough to make me want to leave the house on a semi regular basis.

 

[funkinbottom]

Short answer..... New guitarist.

 

[Hawk620]

It's pretty obvious he's not yet at a level of being able to play with others in a band situation. I believe that rest of you should let him know that and let him know that you plan to search for another guitarist more prepared for the role. Players have been getting replaced for centuries. It's not uncommon.

That requires consulting with the other two first and having all agree with it being the proper thing to do. I don't see it as "going behind the guys back". It's what needs to be done and also what any other band would do to assure the remaining members are all in agreement with replacing the guitarist. He's not your guy.

 

[Nashrakh]

The biggest red flag is, that the guy doesn't seem to know where he is in his musical journey. If somebody says "I know I'm not there yet, but I'd like the opportunity and will work hard" I might be inclined to give them a chance. Doesnt seem that this guy is doing that.

I find it kind of ironic how TB consensus tells people to look for bands with players better than them. But god forbid we find ourselves in the opposite chair and tolerate newbies. Then it's fire and brimstone, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.

Of course this needs to be within reason, but I find myself wondering about this quite often when reading the band management section.

 

[Minimalist]

Of course this needs to be within reason,

IMO that's the keyword here and in the case of the OP, it wasn't within reason.

Maybe it's juts me but I'd expect somebody to say something like "I worked on the intro, but I dont have it down yet" instead off "That's impossible to play". The former tells me, they understood where they are and what needs to happen. The later tells me the opposite.

 

[Micha84]

Of course this needs to be within reason

Absolutely, and I think that is not the case here anymore. I think it is within reason if a player maybe isn't as creative, plays parts a bit simpler or just generally has to work a bit harder. I'll take the nice mediocre guy over the egocentric virtuoso anytime. But if a player just can't get through even simple songs, then he is not ready to play with other people. If I'd get a trumpet tomorrow I'd not apply for a spot in the local orchestra the day after.

 

[DWBass]

I would just let him know you're looking for someone who's more progressed on the instrument. He'd just be holding you guys back. He'll just have to understand. I'm not a fan of carrying dead weight. Bring something to the table or be gone. Period.

 

[Bass Viking]

I'd vote for just trying to add someone better and see if this guy can just handle the light duty stuff or help out here and there. I think it's good to have an absolute beginner here and there (sometimes they bring a little enthusiasm) as long as he kind of knows his limits. Two guitars never hurt. And maybe the person you bring in can explain what he should try to do or teach him a thing or two. This is if you like the guy, obviously. Just say, what do you think about a second guitarist? 2 guitars better than one. Bird in the hand, even if the bird is not much of a bird.

This doesn't really address the problem and it puts the more competent guitarist in an awkward position. By the sounds of it the current guitarist doesn't know his limits. He's not ready.

 

[Bass Viking]

I find it kind of ironic how TB consensus tells people to look for bands with players better than them. But god forbid we find ourselves in the opposite chair and tolerate newbies. Then it's fire and brimstone, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.

Of course this needs to be within reason, but I find myself wondering about this quite often when reading the band management section.

I see your point but this ain't the right situation for it.

 

[pepj]

Incompatible. It happens.
Its not going to end well however you play the hand but for your piece of mind, I think you should tell him its not working and you'll go no further with this line up.
The other guys can make of that what they will. If they ask you want you meant..privately...just say gtr is not ready.
They'll then have to make the same decision as you, and if they don't, they aren't ready either.

 

[BassGuyFL]

Sometimes it’s hard to be honest with people and let them know they’re just unfortunately not making the cut. But the sooner the better it’s gonna cause you nothing but angst and grief the longer you wait. Unfortunately, he’s one of those people that just “doesn’t have it“ and he’s never going to.

 

[john_g]

Alot of other people already covered it but, just politely tell him that its not going to work out. i admit i am not good at this type of thing and have let these types of situations go on way too long and regretted it. I was in a short lived tribute band where we had a guitarist show up that was clearly out of his depth. We let it go on too long because we didnt want to hurt his feelings. We should have addressed it from the beginning as the longer it went on, the more he felt established in the band. Finally had to rip off the band aid and it was fine. The worry about it was way worse than the actual thing.

 

[john_g]

I find it kind of ironic how TB consensus tells people to look for bands with players better than them. But god forbid we find ourselves in the opposite chair and tolerate newbies. Then it's fire and brimstone, cats and dogs living together, mass hysteria.

Of course this needs to be within reason, but I find myself wondering about this quite often when reading the band management section.

While I agree with you in some instances, it depends on the situation and the dedication. This guitarist made it sound like he could play when he cant. If he was upfront and dedicated to getting better AND I wasnt in a hurry to gig, i would be more understanding. Also, this is just my opinion, but bass CAN be an instrument where you can get away with being less experienced because alot of songs on bass are not difficult/out front in the mix. You can play one note at a time and just keep the low end going. YMMV of course

 

[pepj]

Regarding bringing along an inexperienced player is one thing, but they also have to bring along stuff too...like potential and commitment to improve..and actually do that.

If the circumstances align, then fair enough but its also not an obligation.
I gained a lot of experience from a couple of bands, but I could at least play to the required level.

 

[KenSmithFan]

This is why the old, “let’s get together and talk/hang out/plan” before playing this such a waste of time.

Call the singer and drummer to make sure they are on the same page. Then contact the guitar player with the old, “Thanks for coming out, but we didn’t think it was a good fit. Best luck finding a compatible situation.” Don’t get into specifics. You don’t owe him a detailed explanation and it just invites time wasting debate/argument/discussion.

Next time, play together first. Unless they are a complete jerk, playing ability is more important than being friends. IMHO.

 

[KenSmithFan]

While I agree with you in some instances, it depends on the situation and the dedication. This guitarist made it sound like he could play when he cant. If he was upfront and dedicated to getting better AND I wasnt in a hurry to gig, i would be more understanding. Also, this is just my opinion, but bass CAN be an instrument where you can get away with being less experienced because alot of songs on bass are not difficult/out front in the mix. You can play one note at a time and just keep the low end going. YMMV of course

Exactly. Giving someone who isn’t up to your level a chance doesn’t mean teaching someone from scratch. You aren’t under any obligation to ignore your goals so someone else can reach their goals.

I’m all for helping people out when you can, but I’m in this “business” for my own reasons, not to be a mentor or a teacher.

 

[Kevorargh]

When I was a few years in, a similar thing happened to me - I had put an ad at a college I was at looking for musicians, and this guitarist got in touch. We tried to jam and he was horrendous - complete newbie with no real idea off how bad he was. I said if he found a drummer to call me. He did find a drummer, and a second guitar player, so we got together at the second guitarist's house. The drummer forgot parts of his kit and could not hold a beat - he was worse the the original guitar player. Second guitar player says he is bailing on the project but is happy to jam some more with me at other date. I also took the opportunity to bail. Out of that came a Deadhead Jam band with the second guitar player which was ironic because I hated the Dead, but boy, did I learn a lot on that band. We only played one gig before we flamed out due to many different bad outside influences.

Anyway, call the other members and get input, but then decide if you really want to do this. If you can't handle dealing with the newbie guitar player, be upfront and bail.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Well, usually the answer to this should always be a very clear "no", but hear me out...

Hi everyone!

I am on the point of forming a hobby band together with some guys. We don't know each other and just responded to each others search adds. Next week we are about to meet for the third time, and I don't know how to handle the guitarist situation.

Like I said, we are forming a hobby band. We want to play some shows, but no rush. No financial goals whatsoever. It is mostly about getting together once a week to make some music and have a good time.

First meeting was just about to get to know each other. Drummer, singer, guitarist and me going out for drinks. Drummer, singer and me are hitting it off straight away and have a fun night. The guitarist comes across as a bit strange and left very early. He said that he just recently bought an electric guitar, but that he has played classical guitar for a long time. We all agreed that we were a bist skeptical, but that maybe he proved to be an interesting player because of his background.

Second meeting, now with instruments, trying to jam a few songs. From my perspective, seeing the guitarist was physically painful. He tried playing "Wake Me Up When September Ends", but couldn't get through more than one verse without stumbling over his mistakes and having to start over. He said "Paranoid" was really hard because of the "solo part during the intro" (he meant that four note climb). When he played something I couldn't figure out what he played to save my life, because not only had he no idea how to dial in his amp and especially his distortion, but he heavily bended every string when fretting a chord. He couldn't play a song because he said it was "impossible" to fret one note on third fret and another one on 6th.
And so on.
I felt sorry for the guy, because he was so clearly out of his depth and he knew it - or at least I thought so. In the end I even had the impression that he got aggressive towards me, because while he was struggling with each and every song, I could just play everything from the start (not a brag - we played nothing even remotely complex). So I said nothing, tried to be friendly and expected him to just withdraw.

Now, like I said, I don't know the other guys well, but they didn't say anything, either.

The next day, the guitarist writes in the group chat how much he enjoyed playing with us and that he looked forward to the next time. Which will be next week.

So, here is the deal: I do not have any goals that I want to achieve with this band. I am not a particularly great musician and I don't expect other people to be. But this guy is a complete beginner. I don't think it will be fun for me to watch someone struggle through his first steps on the instrument. But what do i do? If the next session will be as catastrophic, will I just say my piece at the end and see how everybody reacts? Or do I contact the singer and drummer beforehand and ask their opinion? That would feel like going behind the guitarist's back. However, I also want to avoid surprising the drummer and singer and come across as the bad guy pulling a "him or me" situation out of nowhere.

So, what to do?

Hingsight is always 20-20, but the time for learning songs is on one’s own time, not at rehearsal. This expectation should have been set before the first rehearsal. In my opinion he is wasting your, and your band mates time. Frankly nobody has time to waste.

Absolutely I would talk to the drummer and keyboardist and explain to them how much time is wasted by this guitarist not being prepared, then see how they feel about a replacement?