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Go big or go home

#283
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#287
tshapiro said:
With the growing number of threads directed towards going direct and lightweight amps I think it’s about time for a thread which brings us back to some punch-you-in-the-chest reality and why some of us will never let go of the heavy iron.

So why full-sized stage amps when running into a FOH system can get you just as loud? In my opinion, the answer to this question is what separates the boys from the men with regards to your sound. Somewhere along the way, the lure of minimalist setups has fooled guitarist and bassists into giving up their beloved stage possessions… namely their amplifiers. In some cases, giving them up totally, and in others trading them for stage monitor versions of their amplifiers. This was done under the thought that ‘it sounds just as good out front’. Well guess what? No, no it doesn’t. It doesn’t in a small bar, and it doesn’t in a concert venue. And, your live playing might take a dive as well. First off, just like cymbals and snare drums real amplifiers reverberate off the walls and ceiling – even in large venues. These reflections come at you in a multi-directional fashion and carry not only realistic characteristics of the amp but also the ‘color’ of the venue which you are playing in. And, it sounds awesome! This akin to a real band vs. a DJ or band in a box. Sound which is originated or largely amplified by the FOH is generally coming from isolated points left and right. And, this is done without the benefit of studio processing where mic placement, reverb, delay and compression have been strategically used to give the illusion of reality. Combine the sound projection coming from a glorified stereo with a flat mix and you are no aural competition for the real deal. Most people may not be able to put their finger on it, but they can tell the sound is kind of… meh, lacking excitement. Well, how about full-sized ‘light weight’ amps? I’m sorry to say, but there is a certain ‘heft’ to the sound of the old school gear. For many reasons it’s the heavy components in transformers, speakers, and cabinets that just can’t be beat when you want the best sound without compromise. In the end, I am certainly not telling anyone what gear you should use – use whatever makes you happy. But, if you’d like some straight talk on how to go directly to some world class sound, go for classic gear. Gear that is sized right for your stage and venue when using the FOH for reinforcement – not your primary sound source. Lean towards tube or solid-state amps with reputations of being work horses. You don’t need to over do it with speaker cabinets, but, bring enough so that your cabinets have plenty of head room to support your sound. There’s a reason why so many touring bass players use 2 4x10’s or an 8x10. Do you need that? No. Will it give you amazing authority, touch sensitivity and headroom? Absolutely. Gear that is undersized takes away your feel. Again, none of this is necessary. But if you’ve reached the point where you and your band just need a great sound than hopefully this helps you find your way. Lastly, while hefty amps and speaker cabinets do play and sound great in all sized venues, they can ruin your hearing and give you tinnitus. This is some serious stuff my brothers. Regardless of your amp size, you should have controlled stage volume and use in ears. Rock on!
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Biiiiiiiiiiiiiiiig +1 :thumbsup:

I totally *get* the attraction of schlepping a five pound amp and a lightweight cab. That attraction is why those rigs are so popular and is an excellent choice for many bassists.

But for me, there is nothing, and I mean N-O-T-H-I-N-G like playing through an all-tube amp and big cab for tone and tactile feel.

That's why, for small to medium gigs, I play through a 100 watt all-tube amp into a 410 cab, and for bigger gigs (or outdoor gigs), I play through a 300 watt all-tube amp into a stacked pair of 410 cabs.

Do I like schlepping that gear? Nope! (especially at my age of 63)

Do I like the tone and tactile feel from that gear? Yep! :)

So will I continue to schlep that gear? Yep! :)
 
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#292
Went and saw a national Led Zeppelin touring act at a music club in Pittsburgh last week. The opening band's bassist had an SVT head on top of two Mark Bass 4x10s and a 5 string Spector. Couldn't hear s$%^ from him for the whole set, nothing, like zero.

The Zep touring band comes on, bass sounds thunderous, punchy, grindy, amazing. It was played by a 98lb Asian woman using a class D head and a 2x10.........

My guess is the soundguy saw the first guy's rig and was like, "ummm nope, not going to give you any help Mr. Tough Guy".

Giant club PA system >>>>>>>> 16x10 bass amp.
 
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#293
twc1313 said:
Went and saw a national Led Zeppelin touring act at a music club in Pittsburgh last week. The opening band's bassist had an SVT head on top of two Mark Bass 4x10s and a 5 string Spector. Couldn't hear s$%^ from him for the whole set, nothing, like zero.

The Zep touring band comes on, bass sounds thunderous, punchy, grindy, amazing. It was played by a 98lb Asian woman using a class D head and a 2x10.........

My guess is the soundguy saw the first guy's rig and was like, "ummm nope, not going to give you any help Mr. Tough Guy".

Giant club PA system >>>>>>>> 16x10 bass amp.
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I seriously doubt that's what happened. More like opener guy doesn't know what he's doing and she does.
 
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#295
promdates said:
Having opened for a couple of touring bands, and opening for double cover touring acts in January... they probably sound checked the main act and then line checked the opener. Surprising he had nothing from the stage and the PA though.
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Agreed. I know openers often don't get the attention the headliner gets. Assuming the guy was turned up loud and got no support due to high stage volume, or was not loud and just got a bad mix...I'm not sure.
 
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#296
twc1313 said:
Agreed. I know openers often don't get the attention the headliner gets. Assuming the guy was turned up loud and got no support due to high stage volume, or was not loud and just got a bad mix...I'm not sure.
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I have also done a bunch of 'big' openers and never had this problem. Most likely answer: he insisted on sending his amp DI, which was post-EQ, and his EQ was set for 'Madison Square Bedroom.' Which was totally unusable and the engineer shut it down. Betcha.
 
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#297
David Jayne said:
I have also done a bunch of 'big' openers and never had this problem. Most likely answer: he insisted on sending his amp DI, which was post-EQ, and his EQ was set for 'Madison Square Bedroom.' Which was totally unusable and the engineer shut it down. Betcha.
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I think you are correct. "Madison Square Bedroom" hahaha brilliant! Probably had a deep v on the graphic eq and cranked the bass and treble knobs on his bass. Inaudible boom and clang that was nix'd.
 
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#300
David Jayne said:
I have also done a bunch of 'big' openers and never had this problem. Most likely answer: he insisted on sending his amp DI, which was post-EQ, and his EQ was set for 'Madison Square Bedroom.' Which was totally unusable and the engineer shut it down. Betcha.
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Ya, we gotta stop this silly idea that big = loud only.
 
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