Go big or go home

[bench]

The size of your rig has nothing to do with anything... you can show pictures of bassplayers with big rigs and others can show Geddy or Tony Levin or Amos Williams or Nolly basically rigless and producing great and big live sound... Carry stuff and move air if you like it. it´s all good.

 

[andrus108]

Regardless of your amp size, you should have controlled stage volume and use in ears. Rock on!

That's the hardest part right there with us electric guitar and bass players - keeping the same level as the loudest acoustic instrument in the band, which most often is the drum kit. First a guitar player wants to hear his Marshall stack roaring, so a bass player answers with cranking their own valve monster or a pro grade kilowatt power amp, the drummer tries to bash away just to hear themselves, and all that noise is picked up by the vocal mic, leaving the singer helpless. 30-40 years of those scenarios has made soundmen allergic to any type of amp on stage, so now that there are ways to remove these sound sources they push those solutions as much as possible at anyone, with little regard for the performer's preference due to past experiences.

Also, in history of going straight to board, bass players were the first ones to do that, followed by keyboard players. I recently showed up at a gig with an Ampeg B25, which has no DI out (unless you count 'Ext. amp', but if you don't know this amp then you wouldn't guess by the name), and when I told the sound guy it doesn't have any line out, he didn't believe me and checked himself, only to come back shocked and annoyed that he has to mic the speaker...

 

[DeepFriedBass]

Usually. But on some boomy stages indoors, I intentionally unplug the bottom cabinet to get rid of the boom...

I have my 410 on wheels and put a 15 on top of that in attempts to deal with boom

 

[Zbysek]

I have my 410 on wheels and put a 15 on top of that in attempts to deal with boom

That's another trick-detach the cab from the floor. Sometimes, it's not enough, IME.

 

[micguy]

With the growing number of threads directed towards going direct and lightweight amps I think it’s about time for a thread which brings us back to some punch-you-in-the-chest reality and why some of us will never let go of the heavy iron.

So why full-sized stage amps when running into a FOH system can get you just as loud? In my opinion, the answer to this question is what separates the boys from the men with regards to your sound. Somewhere along the way, the lure of minimalist setups has fooled guitarist and bassists into giving up their beloved stage possessions… namely their amplifiers. In some cases, giving them up totally, and in others trading them for stage monitor versions of their amplifiers. This was done under the thought that ‘it sounds just as good out front’. Well guess what? No, no it doesn’t. It doesn’t in a small bar, and it doesn’t in a concert venue. And, your live playing might take a dive as well. First off, just like cymbals and snare drums real amplifiers reverberate off the walls and ceiling – even in large venues. These reflections come at you in a multi-directional fashion and carry not only realistic characteristics of the amp but also the ‘color’ of the venue which you are playing in. And, it sounds awesome! This akin to a real band vs. a DJ or band in a box. Sound which is originated or largely amplified by the FOH is generally coming from isolated points left and right. And, this is done without the benefit of studio processing where mic placement, reverb, delay and compression have been strategically used to give the illusion of reality. Combine the sound projection coming from a glorified stereo with a flat mix and you are no aural competition for the real deal. Most people may not be able to put their finger on it, but they can tell the sound is kind of… meh, lacking excitement. Well, how about full-sized ‘light weight’ amps? I’m sorry to say, but there is a certain ‘heft’ to the sound of the old school gear. For many reasons it’s the heavy components in transformers, speakers, and cabinets that just can’t be beat when you want the best sound without compromise. In the end, I am certainly not telling anyone what gear you should use – use whatever makes you happy. But, if you’d like some straight talk on how to go directly to some world class sound, go for classic gear. Gear that is sized right for your stage and venue when using the FOH for reinforcement – not your primary sound source. Lean towards tube or solid-state amps with reputations of being work horses. You don’t need to over do it with speaker cabinets, but, bring enough so that your cabinets have plenty of head room to support your sound. There’s a reason why so many touring bass players use 2 4x10’s or an 8x10. Do you need that? No. Will it give you amazing authority, touch sensitivity and headroom? Absolutely. Gear that is undersized takes away your feel. Again, none of this is necessary. But if you’ve reached the point where you and your band just need a great sound than hopefully this helps you find your way. Lastly, while hefty amps and speaker cabinets do play and sound great in all sized venues, they can ruin your hearing and give you tinnitus. This is some serious stuff my brothers. Regardless of your amp size, you should have controlled stage volume and use in ears. Rock on!

You use a lot of words. I've played lots of gigs with amps on stage. I've now played lots of gigs without amps on stage. I've done FOH a lot of times both ways. Ampless is better for the musicians and the audience hands down - stage wash isn't good for anything other than making you feel powerful. It gets in the way of doing your best to present good music to an audience.

 

[lbbc]

We do mostly small rooms and until last week, I was going direct thru the P.A. For our last gig I picked up an Acoustic B300HD amp and ran it thru a Bose 210 Bass bin. It sounded great.

I loved my big rigs of the past...Ampeg SVT w/810 cab,. Fender Bassman 135 w/Fender 412 cab even my Carvin BX600 w/BRX 210 and BRX15 cabs but at the age of 61 and smaller rooms (seating capacity 100) it's just not necessary for me.

 

[Bikingbasser]

Don't have to go big and heavy either. The tone of my tranny SWR Studio220 atop my ceramic Berg 1x12's is a dream.

 

[JRA]

Go big or go home

With the growing number of threads directed towards going direct and lightweight amps I think it’s about time for a thread which brings us back to some punch-you-in-the-chest reality and why some of us will never let go of the heavy iron.

i am totally with you (except for any part about me doing it, too!). seriously, i've always been thrilled to play the big rigs (certain rock clubs) because it is a different 'ambient feel' --- and a good one, IME. it just feels good to deliver some thunder, live and in-person. i like it!


disclosure: i don't "go big" anymore because i'm too close to "home" as it is.

 

[DeepFriedBass]

You use a lot of words. I've played lots of gigs with amps on stage. I've now played lots of gigs without amps on stage. I've done FOH a lot of times both ways. Ampless is better for the musicians and the audience hands down - stage wash isn't good for anything other than making you feel powerful. It gets in the way of doing your best to present good music to an audience.

Bands that use the PA for vocals and drums, and big tube amps for guitar and bass, absolutely murder In terms of quality and impact. I dont know why anyone would play in a situation with stage wash, it's a self defeating situation.

"So you too play your bass through the vocal amp? Sounds pretty Di then huh"

 

[Muttleybass]

If I ever got to the point where I'm playing stadiums and had my own roadie, sure, I'd have a monster rig. Two GK 2001s on two single RBH 15s under RBH 410s? Bring on the thunder!

However, while I'm still playing smaller bars with tiny stages, trying to keep the volume down, and packing up at 2 am with a bad back, my MarkBass CMD 121p with the PA sub support will do just fine.

but hey, I don't disagree!

 

[micguy]

So.... going with the original thesis of this thread, what is "big"? Is a 300 watt SVT on stage "big"? Is it bigger than an ampless gig with a PA with 20kW driving the subs?

 

[HelpImaRock]

So.... going with the original thesis of this thread, what is "big"? Is a 300 watt SVT on stage "big"? Is it bigger than an ampless gig with a PA with 20kW driving the subs?

Maybe it should be "go preconceived notions, or go home"?

 

[DeepFriedBass]

So.... going with the original thesis of this thread, what is "big"? Is a 300 watt SVT on stage "big"? Is it bigger than an ampless gig with a PA with 20kW driving the subs?

The op put about 40 pictures of what he was referring to.

 

[LoTone]

View attachment 3609658
Cool big rig

I am pretty sure that she did not haul that gear personally!

I think that going big makes sense if you are a major act and you have 20-years old kids that are paid to haul your gear.

 

[arbiterusa]

The tone of my tranny SWR Studio220 atop my ceramic Berg 1x12's is a dream.

I still run my 220 with its faithful mate, my Goliath I. Bought 'em both new in 1989. If there is a better sounding rig out there I have yet to hear it. That amp is a miracle.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

You can get a pretty kick a** PA with subs for around $5k. For the gigs most of us are playing, why drag an amp along? On the big stages, do you think anyone really hears the SVT? It's a stage prop and there is a good chance that what you're really listening to out in the audience is a DI signal. Going ampless allows more room on tight stages and you can get a much better balanced sound. As the old PAs die and are replaced with sub-equipped PAs, the need for amps will diminish.

 

[tb4sbp]

I get it. The old amps of yore were amazing and they are the sounds that we grew up with. SVT 300 watts, Sunn Colosseum 300 watts both through an 8x10 cab. Fender Bassman through a 2x15 or the Granddaddy of them all the 360/361 1x18 w/horn. Massive movements of air indeed!!!
But times change and in my area the small clubs and bars stages would not even have room for one of these. Less the ability to turn one up and enjoy their thunder-y goodness. And these are expensive! If you want to risk a $2000.00 amp head in a small venue for 50-100 bucks then good for you. I have shlept gear with the best of them and I am just as happy with the sound of a Rumble that I do not have to have a truck to move it and end the night with positive pay in my pocket.
Not trying to hurt anyone's feelings here but days of the big bass amp(s) is gone save for a few hard core players. [This doesn't apply to big stage players which would have the room, can turn it up for that sensation and most likely have roadies anyways.]
Play what you like has been mentioned but the title of the thread is 'Go Big or Go Home' so play what you like is just a required curtesy statement
I think for my needs it would be Go Big and hope it doesn't get broken
Of course unless everyone else here thinks ruining a $2000.00 amp head is not a big deal, then I do apologize

 

[covermego]

Here's my rig. I roll it in with a shopping cart. I also leave it in the shopping cart to get it up off the floor. It's ALL in the fingers, anyway.

 

[downunder]

I don’t even own anything bigger than a 1x12 anymore. If someone else brings and sets up the back line I’ll gladly play through it. I prefer that to going through monitors etc. I’m playing mostly acoustic music anyway so I don’t need to get that loud. Mostly not playing stadiums.

I do have an urge to get a Tube amp sometimes. But my class D is just too reliable and lightweight and sounds pretty darn good.

 

[CosmicRay]

You did say "go big"......