I did a recording session last night using my VT Bass into an Avalon VT-737. The engineer loved the tone of the VT B pedal, leaving the 737's EQ off.
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Going Ampless
- Thread starter Medford Bassman
- Start date
I did the RBI thing with one band and didn't like it at all. Didn't get the pants flap. Maybe with a buttkicker....
Still prefer to have a compact powerful rig.
Still prefer to have a compact powerful rig.
I tried going "ampless" at a club about 10 years ago, when I was part of a regular crew of musicians who had an open-stage jam session every Monday night.
Convenience was good, but I ended up missing the feeling of the speakers behind me. The gut impact, the feeling of the bass frequencies moving my chest - it was gone.
Yeah, the club had a fairly nice PA at the time, but it still didn't have the same feeling. I was less confident about my playing, and I only tried it once or twice. After that, I always brought the full rig along, even though it meant I had to load and unload more gear.
I'd be happy to try again, *if* I had a good soundman, and if I had a good monitor solution. I think in-ear monitors are generally a good thing (especially for guitarists) but for a bass I'd almost need a vibrating platform to stand on, so I could feel the impact of the low frequencies.
Convenience was good, but I ended up missing the feeling of the speakers behind me. The gut impact, the feeling of the bass frequencies moving my chest - it was gone.
Yeah, the club had a fairly nice PA at the time, but it still didn't have the same feeling. I was less confident about my playing, and I only tried it once or twice. After that, I always brought the full rig along, even though it meant I had to load and unload more gear.
I'd be happy to try again, *if* I had a good soundman, and if I had a good monitor solution. I think in-ear monitors are generally a good thing (especially for guitarists) but for a bass I'd almost need a vibrating platform to stand on, so I could feel the impact of the low frequencies.
Well, tonight I will be trying the "ampless" thing. I put together a homemade pedal board with my wireless, Sansamp, tuner and power strip.
I am bringing my Shuttle 6.0 and NEOX 112T cab as backup if I don't like it. The pedal board cost less than $8.00 using a peice of scrap wood.
I'll report tomorrow on how it went.
I am bringing my Shuttle 6.0 and NEOX 112T cab as backup if I don't like it. The pedal board cost less than $8.00 using a peice of scrap wood.
I'll report tomorrow on how it went.
At band rehearsal last week we tried running the two guitars and my bass direct through our PA, sounds great and we will be building the rest of our sound based on that.
The guitars are going through PODs and I am running through my VT Bass and Aphex Punch Factory, with the occasional Voodoo Lab Tremolo on some songs. At the moment, the PA consists of an Allen&Heath PA12 into QSC K10 mains (high pass filters in) with the sub out of the A&H going into my Walter Woods Super's FX return into a Dr.Bass DRB212D. At some point we will be getting "real" subwoofers, but this actually works great for now in the practice space.
The guitars are going through PODs and I am running through my VT Bass and Aphex Punch Factory, with the occasional Voodoo Lab Tremolo on some songs. At the moment, the PA consists of an Allen&Heath PA12 into QSC K10 mains (high pass filters in) with the sub out of the A&H going into my Walter Woods Super's FX return into a Dr.Bass DRB212D. At some point we will be getting "real" subwoofers, but this actually works great for now in the practice space.
Ric5
Inactive
- Jan 29, 2008
- 29,772
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- I like 5, 8, 10, and 12 string basses
HA. Is that Geddy Lee levitating over there?
If you go ampless, you're at the mercy of the sound guy & the PA. If those two elements are always the same, great, if not, good luck. I did an ampless gig a month or so ago - not by choice, I was told there would be a backline & there wasn't. I broght a head, but with no cab there was no point.
After the first song the stage monitor either went out or got turned down by the sound guy & I didn't hear myself for the rest of the set & had to rely on my brain to fill in what I should have sounded like (luckily by now my brain & my fingers are pretty in sync going in both directions).
If you go ampless, you're at the mercy of the sound guy & the PA. If those two elements are always the same, great, if not, good luck. I did an ampless gig a month or so ago - not by choice, I was told there would be a backline & there wasn't. I broght a head, but with no cab there was no point.
After the first song the stage monitor either went out or got turned down by the sound guy & I didn't hear myself for the rest of the set & had to rely on my brain to fill in what I should have sounded like (luckily by now my brain & my fingers are pretty in sync going in both directions).
Tried ampless last week in Church at our contemporary service... Went pretty well. We have good FOH, monitors and sound guy. Have been doing it in our "Youth" group (smaller group) for a couple months.
Using a Sadowsky DI sometimes with an AMPEG SVTDI....Precisions sound very nice with this....
I do like the element of feel with a strong stage monitoring that an amp provides. Thinking of amp standing my Portabass pointing back to me and peeling off the DI's ahead of the amp.
I was getting a lot of grief from sound guy for being too loud on stage with the amp behind me so this pointing back arrangment should solve that problem.
Will report back tomorrow on how this goes.
Using a Sadowsky DI sometimes with an AMPEG SVTDI....Precisions sound very nice with this....
I do like the element of feel with a strong stage monitoring that an amp provides. Thinking of amp standing my Portabass pointing back to me and peeling off the DI's ahead of the amp.
I was getting a lot of grief from sound guy for being too loud on stage with the amp behind me so this pointing back arrangment should solve that problem.
Will report back tomorrow on how this goes.
Well, tried going ampless at last night's gig. At our short sound check, it sounded ok. Once the show started, I noticed while I could hear the bass, I couldn't really hear the articulation of the bass. Good quality monitor, but with bass, kick, snare, voices and guitars in it, it really became more of a blend rather than clarity of the notes.
After the first set, I set up my Shuttle 6.0 and NEOX 112T cabinet. I placed it in front of me and it was great.
Now I have my answer. I also noticed having my rig set up in front of me didn't bother FOH at all.
After the first set, I set up my Shuttle 6.0 and NEOX 112T cabinet. I placed it in front of me and it was great.
Now I have my answer. I also noticed having my rig set up in front of me didn't bother FOH at all.
I'm sorry, but calling it "going ampless", then using a guitar amp for bass seems pretty dumb to me - why not just use a small bass amp, if you're going to do that???
- georgestrings
Looks to me it's a monitor as opposed to the idea of a "room-filling" amp. The classic bass amp is supposed to "bloom" out into the room a bit- obviously this is just for one's own monitoring, not meant to go anywhere else. Just another idea.
Nah, Get a double hand gun case. Comes with separable foam padding. You can make the liner any way you like. Affix your gear to a platform that you like and then buy a case at Dcks or someplace lie that to put it in
Nah... piece o' Luaun, staple some scrap cheep carpet remnants to the it, duct tape the pedals to it. Wrap the whole mess in Saran Wrap to keep the drunken, dancing patrons from spilling their swill into your pedals. Get a One-Spot power supply for it. Done.
Well, last Sunday tight stage(extra players), no monitor for me to use and on the wrong side for a "pointing back" configuration. Had major issues on the monitor mix, drummer was whacking the *iss of the acoustic set (yes in church) and really had difficulty hearing...with the PortaBass/SVT-DI/PB112H combination. I think I was a bit weak in the mid EQ...
Did a "Celebrate Recovery" event on Wed. that was loud as well but went with my "black and tan" set (Thunderfunk/Aguilar DB112). Was dialed in for very good stage mix so settling in on this for the larger worship service.
I'll stick to ampless in the smaller "Youth" venue (3 piece)with a monitor: using my Sadowsky DI, fast setup/teardown...
Wow! When I started reading this I was thinking that you guys were probably in some metro area where the clubs have big PA's. Then I noticed that we're all practically neighbors.
In Minneapolis most of the clubs have PA's but many of them are too small to really do bass. Many are vocals-only and stage volume. I actually like it that way - my bands do a good job of balancing levels between the bass, guitars and drums. I've had a lot of experience with bad sound guys, so if I can eliminate the possibility, I'm happy with that*.
Are you guys carrying your own PA's? How far do you typically travel to gigs? When I lived out-state, traveling a few hours was the only way to get gigs and you pretty much carried a PA because the clubs didn't have them.
KO
*I've also had the good fortune to deal with good sound people. The problem is that the bad out number the good in my experience and you never know which you're going to get. I do everything in my power to make sure each gig is a good one. Eliminating the sound guy as a variable is one way to do it.
I know this has been discussed in the other sections of TB....I too play ampless at my church gig using in-ears. And yes, absolutely, it's great not having to lug gear. My DI consists of a small two space rack case that includes a tuner and my svp/cl going XLR out to the house. First, the signal goes to the 'stage' mixing board, then to the FOH board. The stage mixing board controls the in-ears mix for all the band, as well as two big side fills for ambient stage volume.
(Now, some have asserted using 'one-ear only' like I do will make you go deaf, but that's a whole nother discussion... .)
Jimbob
We haul our own PA about 95% of the time. Our Guitarist is very good at balancing out the sound and getting a good solid thump from the bass and kick drum(which is triggered and comes through the monitor as well). I wear earplugs and still feel like I have plenty of bass in my monitor. I share my monitor mix with the drummer, and the guitarist and female singer share the other mix.
We typically travel anywhere from 45 minutes to an hour and a half for gigs, sometimes more sometimes less. Hardly any of the places we play have a sound system. The casinos are the one notable exception, they usually have a system, but you never know who will be running it, sometimes we get lucky and that person actually knows what they're doing.
So to answer your question, we bring our own PA and our own soundguy. No extra split of the money for the guitarist running the sound either. Works well for us.
I was getting some serious Tinnitus (ringing) in my ears so I decided to scale the rig right back and always use earplugs. I've been amp-less for 90% of gigs for about 8 years now. A few things i've tried:
-Straight into house DI = varies A LOT with each DI (so take your own DI)
-Line 6 Bass POD Pro with built in DI = nice, sometimes muddy, can get a little complicated (I'm a set-and-forget guy)
-SWR amp - Valve preamp/EQ/built-in DI (No speaker cab) = nice sound, plenty of control, a bit heavy/fragile
-Sansamp VT pedal into house DI = adds 'life' to the sound - tube emulation, preamp control (EQ and overdrive)
Favorite Setup...(drumroll).......
-Sansamp VT into Aguilar DB900 valve DI = Lightweight, can fit in bass case, WARM, very versatile
I still use one of my many amps when needed or when I feel like it. I think it does add that visceral/pant-flapping to the whole experience, and I probably play a little better, but I see an amp as an extra and not a necessity.
-Straight into house DI = varies A LOT with each DI (so take your own DI)
-Line 6 Bass POD Pro with built in DI = nice, sometimes muddy, can get a little complicated (I'm a set-and-forget guy)
-SWR amp - Valve preamp/EQ/built-in DI (No speaker cab) = nice sound, plenty of control, a bit heavy/fragile
-Sansamp VT pedal into house DI = adds 'life' to the sound - tube emulation, preamp control (EQ and overdrive)
Favorite Setup...(drumroll).......
-Sansamp VT into Aguilar DB900 valve DI = Lightweight, can fit in bass case, WARM, very versatile
I still use one of my many amps when needed or when I feel like it. I think it does add that visceral/pant-flapping to the whole experience, and I probably play a little better, but I see an amp as an extra and not a necessity.
