Am I the only one here who absolutely hates being "direct", through the PA? I can never get the sound I want and it's never loud enough. This only happens occasionally, but there are 2 places I gig regularly that actually require it and it drives me freakin crazy.
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Going Direct
- Thread starter MikeyFingers
- Start date
No you're not, and is it really neccessary for you not to have amplification at these places? Even a small combo amp would help-acting essentially as a monitor for you...
I hate it too, that's why I have my little Line 6 Studio 110. I go into that as a small monitor, and XLR out of that to the board for the DI.
I'm not a fan of it, either. I would prefer that the sound person just mic the amp, or run both if they absolutely must have a DI signal. Sadly, I haven't encountered any at the clubs I've played at willing to do so in many years.
If I did the IEM thing, I'd have to keep an amp offstage, I think. I've really grown to hate the DI sound, and it's tough for me to take it without an amp providing some ass.
Yeah I definitely need my amp thumping away behind me. I like to feel the bass as much as play it.
Depends on the DI & the sound guy.
As a sound guy I like to blend it with the mic signal from an amp.
As a bassplayer I use 2 DI's. One directly after the tuner and one after the effects.
And then a mike on the cabinet if needed.
But then again we always bring our own soundman which I keep a good dialogue with at all times. (After all I do sound for one of his bands and backline for the other ;o)
Just my 2 cents.
As a sound guy I like to blend it with the mic signal from an amp.
As a bassplayer I use 2 DI's. One directly after the tuner and one after the effects.
And then a mike on the cabinet if needed.
But then again we always bring our own soundman which I keep a good dialogue with at all times. (After all I do sound for one of his bands and backline for the other ;o)
Just my 2 cents.
For me ; always DI , all the time.
I can't conceive how an amp can be part of my tone.
My sound is #1, and most important ; me. Then my bass.
My amp is my monitor , nothing to do with my sound. It's just an invention used to hear myself. I would never put a mike in front of a monitor.
When I have the soundman's hat on , I'll put a mike a mike if the bassists insists. I understand the concept even if I don't agree with it.
In order to have good bass sound when DI'ing:
A: The PA must be good enough to handle it. Either really good 15's, or 12's along with Subs, or my fav, 15's and subs. This is for FOH.
B. The monitors must be able to handle the bass frequencies also. Alot of monitors cant. If thats the case, then maybe IEMs would be the ticket.
C. I prefer a 112 cab and my amp as my "stage monitor" for bass. Then no bass thru the front vocal floor monitors, and a separate mix with bass in it (and guitar) for the drummer. If your band is balanced and not too loud, everuone on stage can hear a 112 cab.
D. "Which " DI you are using makes a big difference in sound. The onboard on my GK700rbII is great. I can get "my tone" out to the FOH. That is if it is EQ'd correctly at the mainboard. It always is, cause I do it myself. (via wireless bass).
E. I have tried an sm57 mike instead of the GK DI ,just for fun, and it works just as well. NO difference to me. I have not tried both at the same time, cause I really never needed to. With the GK DI , I always send the signal "Post EQ" which gives the mainboard "my " tone. Then set the bass channel on the mainboard "flat" (all straight up at 12:00 or 0) Adjust minor adjustments from there.
F. Most problems occur from the bands or certain members of a band just having too much stage volume. No need to have a whimpy volume, but too loud just causes alot of escalation from member to member trying to be heard. Start with the drummer, get his volume where it should be, then adjust bass to the drummer, then bring in the guitars, keys, vocals. If the vocals arnt strong, then bring all the instruments down.
A: The PA must be good enough to handle it. Either really good 15's, or 12's along with Subs, or my fav, 15's and subs. This is for FOH.
B. The monitors must be able to handle the bass frequencies also. Alot of monitors cant. If thats the case, then maybe IEMs would be the ticket.
C. I prefer a 112 cab and my amp as my "stage monitor" for bass. Then no bass thru the front vocal floor monitors, and a separate mix with bass in it (and guitar) for the drummer. If your band is balanced and not too loud, everuone on stage can hear a 112 cab.
D. "Which " DI you are using makes a big difference in sound. The onboard on my GK700rbII is great. I can get "my tone" out to the FOH. That is if it is EQ'd correctly at the mainboard. It always is, cause I do it myself. (via wireless bass).
E. I have tried an sm57 mike instead of the GK DI ,just for fun, and it works just as well. NO difference to me. I have not tried both at the same time, cause I really never needed to. With the GK DI , I always send the signal "Post EQ" which gives the mainboard "my " tone. Then set the bass channel on the mainboard "flat" (all straight up at 12:00 or 0) Adjust minor adjustments from there.
F. Most problems occur from the bands or certain members of a band just having too much stage volume. No need to have a whimpy volume, but too loud just causes alot of escalation from member to member trying to be heard. Start with the drummer, get his volume where it should be, then adjust bass to the drummer, then bring in the guitars, keys, vocals. If the vocals arnt strong, then bring all the instruments down.
What did you just say?
DI has one benefit... no heavy lifting which is the next best thing to roadies.
To me, the largest benefit is that I can change anything I want rig-wise, without affecting the FOH send any... Also, by DI'ing, in the unlikely event of an amp failure, my FOH sound carries on, and with some bass in my monitor, I can still drive on...
- georgestrings
I seldom use an amp. Of the four bands I play in, the main two use IEM. I leave my FOH sound to the sound people. I do use very little channel EQ. I use either a Sansamp RBI, Eden Navigator or Avalon U5. All work very well for me.
At my church, there are (2) QSC 18 powered subs right almost under my feet, so even with the IEMs, I have no problem 'feeling' the bass.
In the past, I have ran DI with no amp, and floor monitors. It was ok, but sometimes the bass was blowing out the vocalists (in the monitors) which, particularly in Gospel music, is not good.
I feel running direct is like a lot of other aspects of bass playing. There is a learning curve, and the more info and exprience you get, the easier dealing with it becomes.
Mark
At my church, there are (2) QSC 18 powered subs right almost under my feet, so even with the IEMs, I have no problem 'feeling' the bass.
In the past, I have ran DI with no amp, and floor monitors. It was ok, but sometimes the bass was blowing out the vocalists (in the monitors) which, particularly in Gospel music, is not good.
I feel running direct is like a lot of other aspects of bass playing. There is a learning curve, and the more info and exprience you get, the easier dealing with it becomes.
Mark
It really depends on the tone you're after. As a soundman, I usually mic the cab unless the player wants to run direct (a lot of jazz guys do- they use the amp for monitoring, not for tone) or is running biamped. I'd never use a DI on a rock player... unless he was being a dick and pissed me off.
If you're gonna go DI, you really want to have a compressor inserted on the channel at the board- speakers naturally compress, but DI signal alone is really spikey unless the player has really great technique (again, a lot of jazz guys).
I never liked the sound of DI signal by itself, so when I'm playing I always want a mic and I'll insist on it if I have to. If anybody questions you about it, say this-
"Would you make that guy with the Les Paul and the Marshall run direct?"
"Of course not, the amp is part of his sound"
"Yeah? So's mine, Einstien"
If you're gonna go DI, you really want to have a compressor inserted on the channel at the board- speakers naturally compress, but DI signal alone is really spikey unless the player has really great technique (again, a lot of jazz guys).
I never liked the sound of DI signal by itself, so when I'm playing I always want a mic and I'll insist on it if I have to. If anybody questions you about it, say this-
"Would you make that guy with the Les Paul and the Marshall run direct?"
"Of course not, the amp is part of his sound"
"Yeah? So's mine, Einstien"
I must be alot more annoying then I think I am...
Roflcopterzzz! DI = n00btasticz!
I have my sound and I like it. Many venues are not sound checking these days, especially for openers and without a sound check, I certainly would not trust any sound guy to interpret my sound to the audience for me. I hate lugging my amp and cab around, but its a small price to pay for piece of mind.
It's the same concept with keyboards ; would you mike the keyboard"s player amp instead of passing him through a DI ?
The sound of the patches he created will be a lot closer to reality with a DI than micking his amp...... Same with bass. My sound is a lot closer to reality in a DI than through a "no highs , way too much low mids" bass amp.
The sound of the patches he created will be a lot closer to reality with a DI than micking his amp...... Same with bass. My sound is a lot closer to reality in a DI than through a "no highs , way too much low mids" bass amp.
I don't play Jazz , I have a RCF ART310A amp , would you mike it ?
+1000
I think what it boils down to is what you consider your "sound." If your sound to you is what comes out of your bass, then DI-ing is perfectly fine. However if your idea of what's your "sound" is what comes out of your bass plus the color that your amp adds to it, then DI-ing is not good because your missing half of what you consider to be your "sound."
