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Double Bass Good 4 year college for music?
- Thread starter tenorbass
- Start date
There is no way that I will win a job without going to school. Absolutely no way. So I guess we can debate about how a few truly outstanding players can win jobs while they are already in institutions that are unparalleled in their field, but I will still (hopefully) go to a school, learn about what it takes to win a job, and (hopefully) win a decent job one day. To each his (or her) own, though.
Here's a thought from one old guy who is a MSM dropout (after receiving a full scholarship). Who knows, the degree may be less valuable than the time one gets at school. If a person eschews conservatory, having the time to study and practice the way a student does can become harder as time marches on, unless one is immediately catapulted into being a working pro player.
In retrospect, my opinion is that one of the main values of conservatory is that it gives folks time to work on their skills. While actual practice time can be lean as students work through other classes, the opportunity to immerse oneself in music, whether one graduates or not, is huge.
One reason that some folks I know have advanced degrees in music (or other arts) is the time the added degrees provided. The additional study gave them X-many more years to study with great teachers, work on repertoire, network, etc.
Regarding the actual degree, it is hard to know/see what a person may want later down the line, just in case that orchestra gig with a major symphony doesn't quite happen immediately. It is nice to have options. Having a degree seems to broadens possibilities...for teaching, etc., at least. Having multiple musical possibilities seems to often be a good thing for players, especially if they lack trust funds or unlimited financial resources...
The other thing a complete degree shows the world is one's ability to start, trudge through, and finish something. Even if a person happens to end up getting interested in some other career, the accomplishment is still noted, the record of attainment is still there.
I am, emphatically, not saying strive for/plan for mediocrity/failure. I am saying that there seem to be few drawbacks to attending the best fitting music school one can get into/afford. The money part can be brutal, but there are scholarships, loans, and some less expensive schools...
In retrospect, my opinion is that one of the main values of conservatory is that it gives folks time to work on their skills. While actual practice time can be lean as students work through other classes, the opportunity to immerse oneself in music, whether one graduates or not, is huge.
One reason that some folks I know have advanced degrees in music (or other arts) is the time the added degrees provided. The additional study gave them X-many more years to study with great teachers, work on repertoire, network, etc.
Regarding the actual degree, it is hard to know/see what a person may want later down the line, just in case that orchestra gig with a major symphony doesn't quite happen immediately. It is nice to have options. Having a degree seems to broadens possibilities...for teaching, etc., at least. Having multiple musical possibilities seems to often be a good thing for players, especially if they lack trust funds or unlimited financial resources...
The other thing a complete degree shows the world is one's ability to start, trudge through, and finish something. Even if a person happens to end up getting interested in some other career, the accomplishment is still noted, the record of attainment is still there.
I am, emphatically, not saying strive for/plan for mediocrity/failure. I am saying that there seem to be few drawbacks to attending the best fitting music school one can get into/afford. The money part can be brutal, but there are scholarships, loans, and some less expensive schools...
Not to put a plug in, but Eastman is a great school for the teacher and immersing yourself in music. The social scene isn't huge, but VanDemark is an incredible teacher, and my own personal growth as a result of his teaching is huge.
Edicson Ruiz got in the Berlin Philharmonic and I don't think he even had high school, he was 16.
If you have a recognized performance career you can teach at a university without a degree.
Exception not the rule. He was a member of La Sistema, played under arguably two of the greatest conductors of our time regularly, and been part of an orchestra that had released two CD's on DG to international acclaim by the time he was 19 (not sixteen, I think). La Sistema just simply a program that is unparalleled, at least in the states. So it's not quite a fair comparison.
I am not comparing circumstances because that would be unfair. Let me clarify my point because my aim is certainly not to put anybody down.
The only point I am trying to make is that what counts is whether you can play or not. If you can play, nobody is interested in your degrees or lack thereof. Sometimes they will look at your experience (which is related to your playing ability), but judging by the youth of many audition winners, it seems like orchestras are willing to invest in building a player's experience.
People like Edicson Ruiz (personal friend BTW) and David Grossman are not demi-gods. They are an exception in the sense that they are extremely gifted and their path was shortened, but anyone that wants to get a job in a top orchestra needs to be as good as them. Perhaps the example of Ali Yazdanfar illustrates my point better, and as a personal reflection, it represents what I wish I had done. If I had known better, I would have got a degree in a field where there is more demand, and would have still taken bass lessons, orchestra and summer festivals.
Sound teaching can come from El Sistema or from El-Good-Teacher-in-the-Midwest. Performance experience with world class conductors is available to us as well.
One thing is for sure, my music performance degree didn't do a great job at putting food on the table until I got my first real orchestral position well into my 30s.
Or..... You could just go to Berklee. Why not travel abroad? University of Galway has a music program I think.
VanDemark definately is an incredible teacher!
Also, you might want to look into U of Michigan, Indiana, RICE, and Stony Brook (the teacher -Kurt Muroki- is fantastic).
If you're looking at conservatories though, maybe take a look at MSM, NEC, Colbern, Curtis (as you said) and Eastman of course.
These are all schools I am looking into for undergrad. Hope it helps.
tenorbass:
Dude. Interlochen. All the cool kids are doing it... at least, half the professional orchestral musicians in America have.
Seriously. A summer in the shark tank there will do more for your playing than almost any other experience.
Dude. Interlochen. All the cool kids are doing it... at least, half the professional orchestral musicians in America have.
Seriously. A summer in the shark tank there will do more for your playing than almost any other experience.
It really doesn't matter if you have a degree or not. Orchestras will accept whoever can come in and show that they know the rep better than anyone else.
HOWEVER.
A degree is a great thing to have. Why, you ask?
a) In the real world, it doesn't matter if you can play Bottesini's 2nd Concerto an octave up with impeccable intonation, an office won't hire you if you don't have anything higher than a high school diploma, should the whole 'I want to be an Orchestra bassist' thing doesn't turn out. That said, Bach's Sixth Suite won't buy you bread, and Heldenleben's #9 won't pay for your apartment.
b) A much-overlooked area of getting a degree is getting the general and music theory education which one would not receive if one simply started to audition straight out of high school. Music theory's one of those things which, when used correctly, can lead you to more comfortable interpretations of pieces, and will lead you to create your own voice. In addition, it will better your aural skills, enabling you better sight-reading skills, which is always good in an orchestra if you play a piece which you've never seen.
c) Music school is the place where you'll make many, MANY friends and connections. It's just as important to network as it is to go through a formal education; that horn player whom you played the Nutcracker 15 times with just might the person who calls you when a bass player is needed at a gig, and he/she knows that you are more than able to do the job. Likewise, music school is an intense environment, where you get used to the idea that, like it or not, the audition circuit is a COMPETITION. You might be playing well, but not as well as the grad student in the practice room next to you. Hence, that will act as a catalyst to propel you into more advanced ways of playing.
That said, here's a list of schools which you should probably look into, in no particular order.
1. Conservatories
(usually a straight music education, more performance opportunities, smaller environment, usually more practice time)
+Curtis (FREE TUITION)
Juilliard
New England Conservatory
Boston Conservatory
+Colburn (FREE TUITION AND BOARD)
Mannes School
Manhattan School of Music
Oberlin College and Conservatory
Peabody Conservatory at John's Hopkins University
Cleveland Institute of Music
As you'll notice, a majority of these are on the East Coast.
2. Universities
(more 'rounded' education, bigger schools, sometimes not as much performance opportunities as other schools, bigger 'traditional' university feel)
Indiana University
Rice University
Boston University
USC (University of Southern California)
University of Michigan
University of North Texas
I'm sure I'm forgetting many, but these are the 'big' ones which I can think of. Keep in mind every school has a different feel to it, and every school and studio has a different personality. Also, every school has a different teaching style. Don't expect to get the same style of education from Mr. Hurst at IU as you would from Mr. Robinson at Curtis. It's not that one is better than the other, but rather, they have totally different styles, their studios are very, very different, and each will cater to a (usually) different kind of individual than the other. My best advice is to get to know the teacher before your audition (call or e-mail with them. I cannot recommend this enough), and try to get to know people in the teacher's current studio to see if you will shine in this environment.
Also, get to know people from the other studio(s). You'll be playing alongside them should you go to that college, so get to know them; ask them about their studio, etc. You never know if the right decision is to audition for a different studio than the one which you originally thought about.
I personally go to IU and study with Mr. Bransby, and I think I made the right decision. It's the right school for me. Always leave a good amount of options open when it comes to college so that you can test the waters for each school.
P.S. If this is an old post, whoops. Either way, I hope this guides either the original poster or other people in the same boat as they begin their foray into the strange, strange world of music.
HOWEVER.
A degree is a great thing to have. Why, you ask?
a) In the real world, it doesn't matter if you can play Bottesini's 2nd Concerto an octave up with impeccable intonation, an office won't hire you if you don't have anything higher than a high school diploma, should the whole 'I want to be an Orchestra bassist' thing doesn't turn out. That said, Bach's Sixth Suite won't buy you bread, and Heldenleben's #9 won't pay for your apartment.
b) A much-overlooked area of getting a degree is getting the general and music theory education which one would not receive if one simply started to audition straight out of high school. Music theory's one of those things which, when used correctly, can lead you to more comfortable interpretations of pieces, and will lead you to create your own voice. In addition, it will better your aural skills, enabling you better sight-reading skills, which is always good in an orchestra if you play a piece which you've never seen.
c) Music school is the place where you'll make many, MANY friends and connections. It's just as important to network as it is to go through a formal education; that horn player whom you played the Nutcracker 15 times with just might the person who calls you when a bass player is needed at a gig, and he/she knows that you are more than able to do the job. Likewise, music school is an intense environment, where you get used to the idea that, like it or not, the audition circuit is a COMPETITION. You might be playing well, but not as well as the grad student in the practice room next to you. Hence, that will act as a catalyst to propel you into more advanced ways of playing.
That said, here's a list of schools which you should probably look into, in no particular order.
1. Conservatories
(usually a straight music education, more performance opportunities, smaller environment, usually more practice time)
+Curtis (FREE TUITION)
Juilliard
New England Conservatory
Boston Conservatory
+Colburn (FREE TUITION AND BOARD)
Mannes School
Manhattan School of Music
Oberlin College and Conservatory
Peabody Conservatory at John's Hopkins University
Cleveland Institute of Music
As you'll notice, a majority of these are on the East Coast.
2. Universities
(more 'rounded' education, bigger schools, sometimes not as much performance opportunities as other schools, bigger 'traditional' university feel)
Indiana University
Rice University
Boston University
USC (University of Southern California)
University of Michigan
University of North Texas
I'm sure I'm forgetting many, but these are the 'big' ones which I can think of. Keep in mind every school has a different feel to it, and every school and studio has a different personality. Also, every school has a different teaching style. Don't expect to get the same style of education from Mr. Hurst at IU as you would from Mr. Robinson at Curtis. It's not that one is better than the other, but rather, they have totally different styles, their studios are very, very different, and each will cater to a (usually) different kind of individual than the other. My best advice is to get to know the teacher before your audition (call or e-mail with them. I cannot recommend this enough), and try to get to know people in the teacher's current studio to see if you will shine in this environment.
Also, get to know people from the other studio(s). You'll be playing alongside them should you go to that college, so get to know them; ask them about their studio, etc. You never know if the right decision is to audition for a different studio than the one which you originally thought about.
I personally go to IU and study with Mr. Bransby, and I think I made the right decision. It's the right school for me. Always leave a good amount of options open when it comes to college so that you can test the waters for each school.
P.S. If this is an old post, whoops. Either way, I hope this guides either the original poster or other people in the same boat as they begin their foray into the strange, strange world of music.
I am going to Belmont University, started last fall...I love it so much here...Haven't had a lot of experience with the music department yet because I am here mostly for Audio Engineering, but I can say for sure that it is awesome here 
here i go again... feel free to shoot me LOL... and FREE TUITION at the McDuffie school at Mercer University
Don't mind if I plug my own school for a minute...
Eastman is phenomenal. Really impressive ensembles and Neil Varon is a fantastic conductor, James VanDemark is an AMAZING teacher who will be very hard on you and get the best playing possible from you. Plus we get out own practice rooms to keep and play our basses whenever we want, not to mention the school is absolutely beautiful, not that that matters, but it's a very inspiring place. I can hardly believe I go here when I wake up every day.
Eastman is phenomenal. Really impressive ensembles and Neil Varon is a fantastic conductor, James VanDemark is an AMAZING teacher who will be very hard on you and get the best playing possible from you. Plus we get out own practice rooms to keep and play our basses whenever we want, not to mention the school is absolutely beautiful, not that that matters, but it's a very inspiring place. I can hardly believe I go here when I wake up every day.
