• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Good advice from a brilliant player

#61
TomB said:
So where does a Paul McCartney or a Sting fit in? I’m not sure I buy your argument, with all due respect. ...too many shades of grey to say apples or oranges for me. My point is that it’s an ages-old endeavor.
Click to expand...
Sting and McCartney are bassist composers, just Stanley Clarke, Charles Mingus, or Jaco Pastorius. They simply worked in a different genre. Daryl Jones, a great bassist, played in Sting’s band, but he was not the composer. Some side musicians, like Jaco with Joni Mitchell, or Jamerson with anything he played on at Motown, are allowed free reign. Others, who are also gifted, are not given carte blanche.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Roxbororob and TomB
#63
“Pay your dues” has also been expressed as, “Earn your keep.”

I’ve no idea where I read it but long ago a writer referred to Leland Sklar as the Master of the Whole Note. Lee can play flashy bass as well as just about anyone but he dislikes being up front in that way. He relishes being good in a supporting role and that supporting role leaves the headlines to others while he provides them a foundation. That kind of playing earns my respect and admiration.

smeet said:
I prefer those with enough self esteem that they don’t need to show off. But if you have something relevant to say, SAY IT.
Click to expand...
That’s a good point that needs to be tempered with the caveat that not everything that can be said should be said. Too few players “get” what’s relevant to the song.
 
#64
bobyoung53 said:
To me part of being a "great" bassist (Not saying I'm a great bassist by any means) is knowing when to add bling and when to support the song, 99% of the time supporting the song with maybe a little tiny added bling is best for me.
Click to expand...
Too many people here seem to think that "bling" can't or doesn't also support the song.

There's a difference, IMO, between crappy runs or fast scales just tossed in for show, and thoughtfully executed lines that support the melody. I think a lot of people here think that only simple, rhythmically tight lines qualify as "support" and I think that's a huge misconception. You can do two things at the same time. You can play a solidly rhythmic line while also supporting the melody.

I'm starting to think too many teachers out there are hammering this "support the song" thing to their beginning students whenever they might stray away from their rhythmic fundamentals, which seems a bit of a shame. The lines that best support a song don't have to be dumbed-down lines, but they do have to be musically constructive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hubba-Whaa, bonin in the boneyard, OptimalOptimus and 2 others
#65
LBS-bass said:
Too many people here seem to think that "bling" can't or doesn't also support the song.

There's a difference, IMO, between crappy runs or fast scales just tossed in for show, and thoughtfully executed lines that support the melody. I think a lot of people here think that only simple, rhythmically tight lines qualify as "support" and I think that's a huge misconception. You can do two things at the same time. You can play a solidly rhythmic line while also supporting the melody.

I'm starting to think too many teachers out there are hammering this "support the song" thing to their beginning students whenever they might stray away from their rhythmic fundamentals, which seems a bit of a shame. The lines that best support a song don't have to be dumbed-down lines, but they do have to be musically constructive.
Click to expand...


Yes, I didn't articulate that very well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LBS-bass
#66
This is my favorite song by Rough Trade and good example of Terry carrying a song and working with[supporting] Vocals with simplicity then lighting up the chorus.

The LP/CD 'For Those Who Think Young' is excellent with great Bass Playing to my ears.



PS; I believe most here understand 'In the trenches' but it seems those whom don't understand things/concepts tend to mock them; perplexingly it seems very prevalent nowadays. Both in the trenches [James Jamerson] and highly skilled [Tap, Slap and play every note on Bass in under 5 seconds] are a part of what makes Music so enjoyable.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Jamie_Funk and DirtDog
#67
Really just playing in the right style for who you’re playing with. If your gonna do rock, country, some oldies stuff you might just be a sideman. That’s where some bassist like to be. And it’s just as important. But if your in a jazz/funk/ fusion setting, you’re going to be asked to do more. More melodic stuff, some soloing and a lot of pocket grooving. All of it takes good listening skills.
 
#68
ClusterFlux said:
Well...

I have to say, it sounds like he's rationalizing his choices. He wants to focus on other things, and play a support role, and good for him. But it just isn't the case that the simplest bass line is the best bass line.

I have no idea what "in the trenches" means, it sounds like, well... a bit of macho nonsense. Does he mean that a bass player who sticks to the root and shuts up gets more calls for work? Is a "great player" incapable of playing a solid bass line, when the music calls for it? Hasn't the pandemic fill the "trenches" with mud for another year or so anyway?

Given a choice between being a "good" bass player who works consistently on boring projects, and a "great" bass player who works on challenging projects, I'd take the latter. YMMV.
Click to expand...

If Wikipedia is right, Mr. Wilkins is pushing 90 years old. I’d say that gives him the ability to put his experiences into a perspective in a way that very few of us here able to (yet).

I call that “wisdom”. And you don’t have to agree with it!
 
  • Like
Reactions: LBS-bass
#69
Being "in the trenches" means that it's your daily life. Someone who plays music for a living is most certainly "in the trenches" and most of us here are not there and have never been there. It's odd that people don't know what this phrase means; it is a very common phrase and it comes from warfare and particularly WWI, when soldiers literally dug trenches and stayed in them for very long periods of time in order to avoid gunfire.

Trench warfare - Wikipedia
 
#72
Paulabass said:
I have been away from TB for a while due to lack of motivation due to the pandemic, and the shutdown of live music.
This morning I was talking to one of my favorite bass player friends- Terry Wilkins (Rough Trade, Big Sugar, Dr. John, Levon Helm etc, etc) and he said something I thought was worth sharing.
"The bass is truly such a weird instrument. The longer I play, the less I want to be a great bass player. Good bass players beat great bass players in the trenches. I was never much into chops from both an aesthetic or physical point of view and I always liked the 'creative song player' approach. It was with Rough Trade that I totally formalized my relationship with the vocal and the bass. Though they are separated by a lot of other things it is the first line I draw in the song (and not the kick). Like I am a weighty mobile attached by a string to the melody and hanging below it. The position and weight of the bass note would make it always feel like it is being prodded by the melody. I am pretty much always looking for the fattest simplest and most creative approach. I am starting to get the hang of it."
Food for thought from a veteran of the trenches.
Click to expand...


100 percent correct.
 
#74
jibass said:
Ed Friedland wrote an outstanding insightful article (which i cannot find at the moment) about learning to be a great accompanist rather than a great-chops soloist, based on his experiences touring around the world with The Mavericks. It absolutely agrees with OP's and everyone else's comments. Well worth a read, if i can find the article again i'll post a link. Maybe @edfriedland will chime in here.
Click to expand...

Hey, I couldn't find it online, so I took my original file - re-worked it into a blog post. The Art Of Being No One.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yodedude2, iomamo, StatesideRambler and 4 others
#79
Thanks for sharing this insight again with everyone Ed. As a long ago Berklee grad, I was more a composer/commercial arranger (you should remember when that major existed at Berklee) than a player and that’s what I always thought of bass playing. Kids grown and gone, and having time, I am now focused back on solo bass work, and like you, never happy with what I’ve done. So on goes the exploration. I’ll be headed to a jam next week, with completely unknown players, so I’ll be leaving my beautiful 6 string at home and taking my old ‘77 PJ Fender 4 to become no one again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: edfriedland
#80
Dr. Cheese said:
Name just about any “good” player who was working at the top levels before the pandemic, and they were all capable of playing technically demanding things if the song called for it. I think the OP is calling bassist’s who focus on virtuoso playing as “good” o“great” players. From what I can see, great accompanists have the ability to be totally engaged playing incredibly complicated music or extremely simple music. Always sounding like you care is a great musical gift we all don’t have.
Click to expand...
Nicely put! :thumbsup: . It’s funny. Growing up and being one of the few bass players in my immediate area, I got to play many genres and with older more experienced players . Another to being a “good” or great” player is not just serving the song, but being unselfish and having an open ear with your fellow musicians. At lot of times, my part is based on what the other guys are doing. I like the challenge of that.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Dr. Cheese

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back