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Discussion in 'Live Sound [BG]' started by mcapote, May 1, 2010.
why bother, the internerds say not to try and learn
Check out this site. http://www.yorkville.com/default.asp?p1=6&p2=0&p_id=17 I believe Peavey also has some info on their website. Souncraft has this info. http://www.soundcraft.com/support/gtm.aspx Yamaha has a book for sale http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/YamahaSound/
+1 for the Yamaha book, good stuff right there.
Go to a Pro PA store (no not guitar center) .. talk to the staff.. and explain your wanting to learn.. most will hook you up with a great crew.. in return for schleping gear, you'll learn how to setup and eq gear.
Unfortunatley this is one of the few things that takes hands on from a tenured talent to understand...
looks like some good reading to get me started. thanks
When I was conducting research before I bought my PA This forum was VERY helpful:
Use the search function and do a lot of reading before you start asking questions; there are a lot of "old salts" on PSW who can be tremendously helpful if you've done your homework and ask intelligent questions, but they can be merciless if you start shooting off your mouth before you've done your homework. Like any forum, you'll do well if you learn who the key players are and don't do anything to disrespect them.
+1 to all of the above.
Also, you are in Miami per your labels.
You may want to also go to local clubs where bands use similar systems to that you are looking at and SEE how they go together, sound, are worked(for good or bad) by their sound person AND on breaks maybe ask their sound person questions.
Even after you buy your gear, assemble it, use it, and gig with it....you WILL be learning the ENTIRE time. I got to do what you are doing now a long time ago(1970's) with a friend named Meaux. He now soundman for Heart. We started on daisy-chained 6 channel mixers and graduated to a 24/4/2(24 channels, 4 subgroups, 2 main outputs) mixer. We started with a 2-way system(15 + 15 w/horn) and then went to 4 way.
You can PM me questions.
Yeah, the Yamaha Sound Reinforcement Handbook is the bible, and ProSoundWeb.com is the church.
sounds like some of the subforums here LOL. yeah I was wondering what the PA version of TB was that will be helpful too.
I appreciate it,
as for the local bands, I tried asking some gear questions to the sound guy for one of the bigger bands here in my genre and he kinda snuffed me so thats why I was looking for online help to get me started. he seeemed to have the setup I was expressing interest in with the mixer for the drums piped into the main mixer, and I seen his amps, it was the box with everything else in it that he kept turned away from everyone and I didnt know what or how he ran it. ohh well I guess karma will catch up with him.
dled the PDF last night, got to take it to work monday so I can print it out. no way im reading 431 pages off the monitor hahaha
The Yamaha book is very good. I find this one at least as good in many respects; it explains some concepts in a way that I found more straightforward and easier to understand:
Unlocking the Creative Potential of Recording Studio Effects
Alexander U. Case
Focal Press, 2007
ISBN - 13: 978-0-240-52032-2 (paperback)
Many manufacturers have "White Papers" that are very informative. One of the best is http://www.rane.com/library.html#rnotes Also good is http://www.peavey.com/support/technotes/
Sounds like you're in for a long journey. Read, read, and read some more. Spend some time on the live forums, and best of all try to hook up with a local sound guy that will show you some things. Guessing is a VERY bad way to get experience at the start, especially if people are paying you to perform. Bad sound leaves a lasting bad impression that will follow your band around. Nothing against BFM cabinets, but it'd be much easier to use your money and buy decent used cabinets rather than building a rig and then trying to learn how to setup the processing, etc. to make it sound good. My best advice would be to hire out sound, at utilize your time with the hired out sound to learn the ropes so you can do it yourself.
Building your own stuff is not the best idea, especially when you are new in the field. There is so much second hand stuff to buy (cheaply) and that is more well recognized (business factor) and easier to get information on ("how do I best set up rig X").
Customers might be hesitating to hire a DIY rig, but a JBL, EV etc. rig will easier be accepted, IME.
Prosundweb is a much more professional and open forum than TB and most people are very open to trying different brands and products. The result, support and reliability of the product is what counts, brand labels not so much.
The most important thing in doing sound is the hardest one to come by; experience. You can only read so much and twaek so much at home. However, learn what ALL knobs on your gear do, how to set up things quickly and safely and make sure you have spare cables, batteries, mikes etc.
But the hard stuff begins when you factor in musicians, malfunctional gear, bad rooms, insufficient rigs, stress, lack of time to set up, and finally a drunk, paying audience telling you it is too loud, too soft etc...
I think you have the wrong idea, Im not new to the field of building cabinets, just the electronics sides of PAs, Ive been building cabinets for years in one form or another, both wood and fiberglass, and my stuff looks just as professional as store bought gear, but with the BFM designs its alot more efficient than most store bought gear for a fraction of the cost. I was just looking to learn more about the electronics side of FOH, once my gear is setup I have someone that will run the mixer and adjusts the sounds for me, but the initial construction of the FOH is on me as well as setup at the shows cause the mixer guy is in a chair.
Please don't take offense, but if you think that looks have anything to do with anything useful, you need to realign your thinking more than a little bit. If you understood the math & science behind loudspeaker design you would know enough not to ask the question that you did.
Take the time to use the resources that have been suggested to you. Then, read stuff again because you won't absorb it all on the 1st pass. The more you know, the more you'll realize you don't know.
This is good advice. If you don't already have a bunch of money invested in PA gear then I would look at buying powered tops/subs. Unless you really know what you are doing there is no way that you will get any home made or for that matter passive PA speakers to sound as good.
LOL what was I thinking asking questions to better my knowledge. yeah just drop asking questions and buy premade stuff don't learn how to do it. I find it funny that on this forum 90% of the replies to anyone's questions tell them forget about it. I don't see how knowledge of loudspeaker design is gonna teach you how an electronic crossover is, I knew what it did, but i hadn't seen the back of one used in a PA so I didn't know how it input and output, the one XO I did see was designed channel 1 input with a high and low output for that channel and the same for level 2, so I wasn't sure if all Xo were like that or if they had xo that crossed over by channel i.e. c1 under 100hz. c2 over. Personally I find it stupid to "know better than to ask the questions I did" if I have a question I throw it out there, half the time I figure it out after reading it over again, but why would anyone not ask a question if they have it, sometimes someone else can give you a quick answer and then you know. I got a idea if you don't want to answer the specific question asked move on instead of always trying to discourage people from learning.
I gather that you're looking for a quick, easy, "one size fits all" "solution" that covers every situation. Sorry to disappoint.
There's a lot more to loudspeaker design than just being able to build pretty boxes, unless you subscribe to the theory that whatever looks good must sound good (plenty of people do). Everything works together in a system, with balance & compromise everywhere, to achieve certain design goals.
Nobody credible can tell you, "Set your crossover to x" anymore than they can tell you what single make, model, & size of tires are the "best" choice for every car or truck ever made. There are a lot of variables that need to be understood first.
If you really want to learn something, you've been given some good starting points. Read them; learn the material; internalize it. Find some other references on the same topic (there are plenty), read them, & understand the different perspectives they represent. The more you learn, the more you'll realize what you don't know. That's not a bad thing, if it drives you to want to learn more.