• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Got a question for the jazz peeps-does this comment have merit?

#21
zeppelinfreak said:
Im the person that posted that on UG, and thats not what I said all. Maybe you should not change quotes to make yourself look like a victim

What I actually said was this,

"To get big in jazz you pretty much have to start young. Like, when your still a teen. Its the only way to get connected enough to really do anything with it. Plus itll take all the better years of your life to become proficient enough in jazz to "hang" with the big guys.

With this in mind, myself my drummer and my guitarist do trio work together at restaurants and other small venues. Its just a matter of putting together a resume (preferably with a sampler CD of sorts) and just dropping it off everywhere you can.



But Im gonna be honest. The fact that you havent been studying jazz more or less all your life, and more importantly, the fact that you probably dont play upright bass means youll likely never get a big band gig. Also, your gonna have to drop that solo bassist attitude. Youll never make it in jazz like that"







So as you see, I actually said that itll be near impossible to become FAMOUS if you hadnt started early, especially as a soloist. I also said that you wont be able to get BIG BAND gigs unless you play upright. I also told you how to start getting small, realistic gigs to get on your feet. So instead of playing the victim, take my advice, because its deadon.
Click to expand...

Lawl. Considering the OP, I guess this is to be expected.
 
#23
IdealWay said:
John Patitucci, Stanley Clarke, and Bob Cranshaw all play amazing jazz on electric bass, so don't let the jazz snobs fool you... it has been and will continue to be done.
Click to expand...

Is Patitucci being a jazz snob when he chooses to only play upright with the Wayne Shorter Quartet? Or is he making a musical decision based on the sound of a specific instrument? Likewise Christian McBride, James Genus, James Cammack, Tim LeFevbre, Marco Panascia, even Stanley.

So are they being snobs when they make a choice? And if you are honest with yourselves and answer NO, they are not being snobs, isn't it just possible that somebody else who makes the decision to use an upright bass in their group instead of an electric bass guitar is also not being a snob?

But it's a lot easier to say that they're being jazz nazis, you can definitely feel better about yourself.

FASSA - the only thing I can really say is that, if you don't start playing this music till you're 17, there's no way you're gonna be a 16 year old prodigy. There's plenty of cats that started their careers late, like Ray Drummond. There's lots of cats that started early as child prodigies, like Kenny Werner and Herbie Hancock. But you can never know what trajectory your life will take along a certain path unless you step on that path. A lot of folks (and I used to be one of them) have sort of a hierarchical concept of music- rock musicians are more accomplished than country musicians, jazz musicians are more accomplished than rock musicians, but not as accomplished as classical musicians. It ain't like that, all of the different approaches to music have different things that are important; it's not so much a matter of skillset and technique as it is DRIVE. What sound coalesces meaning from chaos for you, what gives life meaning? What sound do YOU PERSONALLY want to make to communicate some personal vision of what all this random **** means?
Playing jazz (and certainly playing upright bass) is not some kind of stamp of moral "rightness", you're not a better person because you decide to play a certain kind of music or a certain kind of instrument (although how you approach those decisions and the work you do to reach your goals does reflect the person you are). If what you hear is electric bass, if the music that is most meaningful for you is jazz, great. Start now, you have the rest of your life. And it ain't like Britney Spears or Pink, I was doing a gig for awhile with a tenor player who was 87, took his horn out of the case EVERY ****ING DAY. Didn't matter if he "made it", all that was important was having a meaningful communication with the cats on the stand.

Personally, I started on electric bass and came to this music late. I didn't start playing "straight ahead" jazz until maybe late '78, and then VERY poorly (I have the recordings to prove it, if you need a laugh). I didn't have an upright until about '81 or 82 and still considered myself an electric player that doubled until about 1988 or 89; I sold the last electric I owned in early 92. You can call me a snob or a nazi all you want, but the reason I don't play electric anymore is because when I hear MYSELF, MY VOICE in the music, I hear the sound of the double bass. Not because I SEE it or I think it's HIP, but because that's what I HEAR. And it's what a lot of other folks hear, too.

So you can call everybody whatever names you need to, just understand that it's more about YOU than about them....
 
#26
Ed Fuqua said:
Is Patitucci being a jazz snob when he chooses to only play upright with the Wayne Shorter Quartet? Or is he making a musical decision based on the sound of a specific instrument? Likewise Christian McBride, James Genus, James Cammack, Tim LeFevbre, Marco Panascia, even Stanley.

So are they being snobs when they make a choice? And if you are honest with yourselves and answer NO, they are not being snobs, isn't it just possible that somebody else who makes the decision to use an upright bass in their group instead of an electric bass guitar is also not being a snob?
Click to expand...

I wasn't talking about making a choice in instrument. I was talking about those who consider themselves superior or more authentic because of the instrument they play; i.e. upright players who immediately dismiss an electric bassist simply because they are taking a different approach. I used the 3 names to illustrate the point that serious jazz isn't limited to the double bass.
 
#28
zeppelinfreak said:
Im the person that posted that on UG, and thats not what I said all. Maybe you should not change quotes to make yourself look like a victim

What I actually said was this,

"To get big in jazz you pretty much have to start young. Like, when your still a teen. Its the only way to get connected enough to really do anything with it. Plus itll take all the better years of your life to become proficient enough in jazz to "hang" with the big guys.

With this in mind, myself my drummer and my guitarist do trio work together at restaurants and other small venues. Its just a matter of putting together a resume (preferably with a sampler CD of sorts) and just dropping it off everywhere you can.



But Im gonna be honest. The fact that you havent been studying jazz more or less all your life, and more importantly, the fact that you probably dont play upright bass means youll likely never get a big band gig. Also, your gonna have to drop that solo bassist attitude. Youll never make it in jazz like that"







So as you see, I actually said that itll be near impossible to become FAMOUS if you hadnt started early, especially as a soloist. I also said that you wont be able to get BIG BAND gigs unless you play upright. I also told you how to start getting small, realistic gigs to get on your feet. So instead of playing the victim, take my advice, because its deadon.
Click to expand...
Why do I know you from somewhere?
 
#29
IdealWay said:
I wasn't talking about making a choice in instrument. I was talking about those who consider themselves superior or more authentic because of the instrument they play; i.e. upright players who immediately dismiss an electric bassist simply because they are taking a different approach. I used the 3 names to illustrate the point that serious jazz isn't limited to the double bass.
Click to expand...
That certainly wasn't clear in your original post, all you said was "...don't let the jazz snobs fool you...", you could just as easily be referring to saxophonists, pianists, guitarists, hell even bagpiperists.
As to talking about making a choice, no you weren't. But JP in particular (and most other bassists who double) plays BG on funk, fusion, latin type music and upright almost exclusively for straight ahead type music, even contemporary straight ahead type music. I can see why you want to avoid answering the question.


Oooh, also, please define "more authentic".
 
#30
zeppelinfreak said:
Lol, I bet I blindsided OP pretty hard. Bet she didnt think I would come all the way from ultimate-guitar to correct her quote
Click to expand...

Still kinda talking out of yer ass, though. On what do you base your assessment of "what it takes to make it" as a jazz musician?
 
#31
Ed Fuqua said:
That certainly wasn't clear in your original post, all you said was "...don't let the jazz snobs fool you...", you could just as easily be referring to saxophonists, pianists, guitarists, hell even bagpiperists.
As to talking about making a choice, no you weren't. But JP in particular (and most other bassists who double) plays BG on funk, fusion, latin type music and upright almost exclusively for straight ahead type music, even contemporary straight ahead type music. I can see why you want to avoid answering the question.


Oooh, also, please define "more authentic".
Click to expand...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Stanley Clarke does the same thing.
 
#32
LLink24 said:
Why do I know you from somewhere?
Click to expand...

I like to start fights on youtube. Zeppelinfreak used to be my multi on ultimate guitar (before I got caught). Its my screen name for AIM

Also, to Ed, Ive been to a lot of jazz workshops and camps and consider myself a semi decent jazz musician. Hell, I did a short tour of europe with a big band believe it or not. You learn a couple things...
 
#33
Ed Fuqua said:
Still kinda talking out of yer ass, though. On what do you base your assessment of "what it takes to make it" as a jazz musician?
Click to expand...
He's from UG, give him a break.

zeppelinfreak said:
I like to start fights on youtube. Zeppelinfreak used to be my multi on ultimate guitar (before I got caught). Its my screen name for AIM
Click to expand...
What was you main account?
 
#35
zeppelinfreak said:
I like to start fights on youtube. Zeppelinfreak used to be my multi on ultimate guitar (before I got caught). Its my screen name for AIM
Click to expand...
Oh, you're a child.

ZIPPERSQUEAK said:
Also, to Ed, Ive been to a lot of jazz workshops and camps and consider myself a semi decent jazz musician. Hell, I did a short tour of europe with a big band believe it or not. You learn a couple things...
Click to expand...
You should learn a couple more sometime. Well this will be fun for a minnit. How much did your tour of Europe pay? Or was it one of those tours that your moms organized a bake sale to pay for? I'm glad that jazz camp has given you such an elevated sense of your abilities, what recordings of you are available so that we may bask in your semi-decentness?
 
#36
Ed Fuqua said:
That certainly wasn't clear in your original post, all you said was "...don't let the jazz snobs fool you...", you could just as easily be referring to saxophonists, pianists, guitarists, hell even bagpiperists.
As to talking about making a choice, no you weren't. But JP in particular (and most other bassists who double) plays BG on funk, fusion, latin type music and upright almost exclusively for straight ahead type music, even contemporary straight ahead type music. I can see why you want to avoid answering the question.


Oooh, also, please define "more authentic".
Click to expand...

All I want to avoid is wasting time justifying myself to someone who doesn't thoroughly read what was written. I know what JP plays, that's why I referenced him as an electric jazz player.

Check this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2iKRT4XnPwg&feature=PlayList&p=7C1831C826EC33AB&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=44

Also, in the context from which I was speaking (typing actually) "more authentic" implies an attitude of superiority. It's not important... I was encouraging the OP to pursue jazz if that's what interests him, and not to be discouraged by upright bass playing snobs who think jazz can only be played on a DB.
 
#37
Ed Fuqua said:
Oh, you're a child.

You should learn a couple more sometime. Well this will be fun for a minnit. How much did your tour of Europe pay? Or was it one of those tours that your moms organized a bake sale to pay for? I'm glad that jazz camp has given you such an elevated sense of your abilities, what recordings of you are available so that we may bask in your semi-decentness?
Click to expand...

Huh? Why are you being such a ****? Just cause Im young doesnt mean I dont have experience. It was a highschool trip, but we played hard music at a professional level (not kidding, we all worked so hard for that trip). We did 12 concerts in 14 days. The smallest crowd was 200, the largest was 500 or so.

Also, in case you didnt know, most jazz camps are high end programs with professionals teaching. Maybe names like Lennie Foy, Bob Chmel, Jeff Campbell, Joey Tartell, and Mike Striker ring a bell?
 
#38
You'll avoid "wasting time" if you're clear in the first place. Since you're quoting me exclusively I have to assume that you're speaking to me specifically when you say "doesn't thoroughly read what was written..", what is it you think I missed? As I said, who you're accusing of being a "jazz snob" was unclear.

That's a very nice bass guitar instructional video of John playing a solo and not playing any bass function. I have to again point out that he is not playing a Yamaha 6 string electric bass with Wayne and he is at a point in his career that if he wanted to insist on doing so, he could.

Sorry it just sounds like somebody was mean to you and now that's all you hear when the subject comes up.
 
#39
zeppelinfreak said:
Huh? Why are you being such a ****? Just cause Im young doesnt mean I dont have experience. It was a highschool trip, but we played hard music at a professional level (not kidding, we all worked so hard for that trip). We did 12 concerts in 14 days. The smallest crowd was 200, the largest was 500 or so.

Also, in case you didnt know, most jazz camps are high end programs with professionals teaching. Maybe names like Lennie Foy, Bob Chmel, Jeff Campbell, Joey Tartell, and Mike Striker ring a bell?
Click to expand...

Now, considering who you're talking to, it's to be expected. Either suck it up (cause in a case like this, you're not going to win anyway), or just head out.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back