Got a question for the jazz peeps-does this comment have merit?

[Ed Fuqua]

Huh? Why are you being such a ****? Just cause Im young doesnt mean I dont have experience. It was a highschool trip, but we played hard music at a professional level (not kidding, we all worked so hard for that trip). We did 12 concerts in 14 days. The smallest crowd was 200, the largest was 500 or so.

Also, in case you didnt know, most jazz camps are high end programs with professionals teaching. Maybe names like Lennie Foy, Bob Chmel, Jeff Campbell, Joey Tartell, and Mike Striker ring a bell?

Sorry, I dont have any recordings to pull out of my ass for you. How about you not be such a ****, and try taking the advice of someone who might know a thing or two

Oh come on Sparky, you're the one who said "I like to start fights on youtube", is it not any fun when they get started on you?
You might have experience, but it's a small amount (did the bake sale remark hit a little too close?), you may have played music that 16 year olds found hard, you may have played 12 whole concerts, you may have had the resource of some players with far more depth of experience than you for a few weeks every year (although the only cat I heard of is
Jeff Campbell, I know more of the guys that do the Jamey Aebersold camps and Attila's camp up in Vermont. We run into each other a lot. Here in New York. Where I've been living and playing jazz gigs for longer than you been alive.), but that's ALL.

Having a couple of little things under your belt doesn't make you an expert and certainly doesn't make you the one "telling the truth". There are plenty of cats that did NOT start young, there are plenty of guys that played electric bass in big bands (ask Mike Richmond what he was playing in Buddy's band) and small ensembles.

You're young and full of yourself, fine. But you are specifically wrong, incorrect, misinformed and absolutely not right in this instance.

 

[zeppelinfreak]

Oh come on Sparky, you're the one who said "I like to start fights on youtube", is it not any fun when they get started on you?
You might have experience, but it's a small amount (did the bake sale remark hit a little to close?), you may have played music that 16 year olds found hard, you may have played 12 whole concerts, you may have had the resource of some players with far more depth of experience than you for a few weeks every year (although the only cat I heard of is
Jeff Campbell, I know more of the guys that do the Jamey Aebersold camps and Attila's camp up in Vermont. We run into each other a lot. Here in New York. Where I've been living and playing jazz gigs for longer than you been alive.), but that's ALL.

Having a couple of little things under your belt doesn't make you an expert and certainly doesn't make you the one "telling the truth". There are plenty of cats that did NOT start young, there are plenty of guys that played electric bass in big bands (ask Mike Richmond what he was playing in Buddy's band) and small ensembles.

You're young and full of yourself, fine. But you are specifically wrong, incorrect, misinformed and absolutely not right in this instance.

Its pretty easy to make up credentials like that isnt it.

Also, it was professional level music. Not stuff that we *thought* was hard.

But hey, if you think you can make it big playing electric bass in a big band after only starting to play jazz at age 30+, then you can think that. Im just trying to point out how extremely unlikely it is, and that OP would have better luck just trying to get small gigs at restaurants and such

But whatever, I guess you know everything right? No one else can add anything to the conversation because you already have all the answers. In fact, why even have TB? Why not just have all questions asked in forums sent directly to you?

By the way, I mean starting fights with neo-cons who leave funny comments on bill o reilly videos. I like reading their racist/hick/just ******** responses.

Also, you should know, the teacher of my jazz class at my school is John "Wojo." Look him up sometime

 

[Rudreax]

The OP is 21. Just thought I'd throw that in there.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Its pretty easy to make up credentials like that isnt it.

I don't know what this means? Did you leave out punctuation? If what you meant to say was "It's pretty easy to make up credentials like that, isn't it." Well, fair enough, sure. But there's stuff that's pretty easily checked should you want to. Even here at the site, there's any number of posters that have heard me play at venues here in the city over the years, my picture is posted here and verified by people who have actually seen and heard me and can verify that the the picture and bio posted at the Small's website is indeed me. And that it pretty much sounds like me playing with Eliot Zigmund and Rich Perry ( your teacher "Wojo" can tell you who they are) on the soundfiles posted there. And sorry I just gotta add - and this will be very easy to do since I post using my actual name.

Also, it was professional level music. Not stuff that we *thought* was hard.

And I'm sure your mommy was very, very proud.

But hey, if you think you can make it big playing electric bass in a big band after only starting to play jazz at age 30+, then you can think that. Im just trying to point out how extremely unlikely it is, and that OP would have better luck just trying to get small gigs at restaurants and such.

And you should know, right?

But whatever, I guess you know everything right? No one else can add anything to the conversation because you already have all the answers. In fact, why even have TB? Why not just have all questions asked in forums sent directly to you?

Not everything, no. But I know you are wrong, ill-informed, incorrect and absolutely not right in this instance. And I DO know enough to know when to listen to people whose experience far outstrips my own.

By the way, I mean starting fights with neo-cons who leave funny comments on bill o reilly videos. I like reading their racist/hick/just ******** responses.

OK. Good luck with that. Have a blessed day.

Also, you should know, the teacher of my jazz class at my school is John "Wojo." Look him up sometime

OK. But you know, to quote a popular jazz icon, it doesn't rub off.
Google doesn't have a hard time remembering how to spell his last name; out of his top 16 (on myspace)I've played with 6. I've recorded with Jacob Sacks, maybe you want to get "Wojo" to ask Jacob for verification of my credentials? You could always go to Link Removed and look at the pictures from the recording session...


our moms didn't pay for it.

 

[otis_thick]

I've been considering whether it would be worth some time doing some local jazz jam sessions.

Now I asked on another forum about this and a guy said the following-

"You've got no hope, you'd need to be playing since you were small to have any hope of playing jazz gigs, and you need to be able to play double bass too."

Is this guy talking out of his backside or does he have a serious point?

Not all Jazz jams will be walking at high speed through some Dizzy Ellington song you have never heard of...some will be glorified R&B covers or the piano/keys may call out a progression,,,If you have attended a few and you think you can hang...introduce yourself and go from there...remember musicianship is relative...a Classical Player may not be able to play Jazz nor R&B well...a Jazz Player may not be able to play R&B nor POP/Funk well etc...there are very few, let alone famous bassists that play it ALL well and with athority...that's why surgeons specialize...but don't stop exploring the various aspects of music

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Not all Jazz jams will be walking at high speed through some Dizzy Ellington song you have never heard of...some will be glorified R&B covers or the piano/keys may call out a progression,,,If you have attended a few and you think you can hang...introduce yourself and go from there...remember musicianship is relative...a Classical Player may not be able to play Jazz nor R&B well...a Jazz Player may not be able to play R&B nor POP/Funk well etc...there are very few, let alone famous bassists that play it ALL well and with athority...that's why surgeons specialize...but don't stop exploring the various aspects of music

This makes me very, very sad....

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Not all Jazz jams will be walking at high speed through some Dizzy Ellington song you have never heard of...some will be glorified R&B covers or the piano/keys may call out a progression,,,If you have attended a few and you think you can hang...introduce yourself and go from there...

I've been to quite a few Jazz jams or similar and I don't think this happens so much in the UK?

Jazz is Jazz over here and it means playing the sort of standards that you find in Real Books etc.

I think it can be hard for Bass Players as these things are aimed at horn players coming up and "blowing" for as long as they can get away with it!

Often there are regular rhythm sections or if not - you are expected to keep going and outline the form very consistently - beginners in rhythm sections are going to hold everybody else back and you could find you need a very thick skin - where the slightest "fluctuation" will get crticised..?

As to the rest - I agree completely with ED on all he has said! As usual - a beacon of common sense in a world of confusion!

 

[zeppelinfreak]

I don't know what this means? Did you leave out punctuation? If what you meant to say was "It's pretty easy to make up credentials like that, isn't it." Well, fair enough, sure. But there's stuff that's pretty easily checked should you want to. Even here at the site, there's any number of posters that have heard me play at venues here in the city over the years, my picture is posted here and verified by people who have actually seen and heard me and can verify that the the picture and bio posted at the Small's website is indeed me. And that it pretty much sounds like me playing with Eliot Zigmund and Rich Perry ( your teacher "Wojo" can tell you who they are) on the soundfiles posted there. And sorry I just gotta add - and this will be very easy to do since I post using my actual name.

And I'm sure your mommy was very, very proud.

And you should know, right?

Not everything, no. But I know you are wrong, ill-informed, incorrect and absolutely not right in this instance. And I DO know enough to know when to listen to people whose experience far outstrips my own.

OK. Good luck with that. Have a blessed day.

OK. But you know, to quote a popular jazz icon, it doesn't rub off.
Google doesn't have a hard time remembering how to spell his last name; out of his top 16 (on myspace)I've played with 6. I've recorded with Jacob Sacks, maybe you want to get "Wojo" to ask Jacob for verification of my credentials? You could always go to Link Removed and look at the pictures from the recording session...


our moms didn't pay for it.

I just dont get why your being such a jerk. You act like I dont know anything about jazz, when in fact, I know quite a bit. My opinion is just as valid as yours. Its a pretty unrealistic aspiration to make it in a big band without playing upright bass, and its tough to get famous as a jazz player unless youve been playing a long time. Those two things are pretty much undeniable.

So I think its time you bow out of this thread

My posts were totally reasonable, and had merit, but unfortunately, your such a tool that anyone with a differing opinion has to be wrong. But according to posts by other users, that was to be expected of you. And I expect nothing else but more of the same in your next post to, so dont even bother writing it, because Im out of this thread

 

[Rudreax]

Someone obviously doesn't go on TB that much...

Ed, I think you made the kid angry.

 

[Phil Smith]

I've been considering whether it would be worth some time doing some local jazz jam sessions.

Now I asked on another forum about this and a guy said the following-

"You've got no hope, you'd need to be playing since you were small to have any hope of playing jazz gigs, and you need to be able to play double bass too."

Is this guy talking out of his backside or does he have a serious point?

You need to know some tunes, how to walk and how to solo, if you know these things and can pick up tunes quickly, read a chart or a pianists left hand you could and should sit in.

If you walk into a jam without an instrument then you should be able to play double bass or else you're not playing.

If you're trying to get your feet wet, try going twice to just listen and note what tunes get called and then study those tunes so that when their called you can play them.

 

[standupright]

Shame he doesn't know this...




Most 'modern' jazz bands here will play electric bass 90% of the time.
Shouldn't matter really, it's still going to give you the same effect.



So there is hope for me....yay!

i'm sorry, but no it won't.

 

[Jim Campbell]

i'm sorry, but no it won't.

whether you play electric,db,stick,or upright electric or all four there is no way around knowing the music.....a sax player can always lay out a few progressions until he hears it but the bass player cannot.....the skill level required to sit in a jazz jam is very high and those that play it are very familiar with the american song book,and the structure of the songs

 

[standupright]

whether you play electric,db,stick,or upright electric or all four there is no way around knowing the music.....a sax player can always lay out a few progressions until he hears it but the bass player cannot.....the skill level required to sit in a jazz jam is very high and those that play it are very familiar with the american song book,and the structure of the songs

agree 100%.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

I just dont get why your being such a jerk. You act like I dont know anything about jazz, when in fact, I know quite a bit. My opinion is just as valid as yours. Its a pretty unrealistic aspiration to make it in a big band without playing upright bass, and its tough to get famous as a jazz player unless youve been playing a long time. Those two things are pretty much undeniable.

So I think its time you get out of this thread

My posts were totally reasonable, and had merit, but unfortunately, your such a tool that anyone with a differing opinion has to be wrong. But according to posts by other users, that was to be expected of you. And I expect nothing else but more of the same in your next post to, so dont even bother writing it, because Im out of this thread

You knowing "quite a bit" and you THINKING you know "quite a bit" are two entirely different things, boyo. And no, your opinion is not as valid as mine because you don't have near the experience I do. And it's funny that this upsets you. I don't have near the musical experience of Reggie Workman or Peter Washington (or countless other cats) and my first response to (for example) Peter Washington telling me that my assessment of something is ill informed is NOT to call him a jerk, tool or *******. You may have GTFO of this thread, but you have not made a contribution that was reasonable or meritorious. You put forth not an opinion but baldly stated "facts" that were easily contradicted by stating players who have 1. played electric bass in top level big bands and 2. started their careers in jazz late in life and still achieved "success" (if that is merely defined by playing at an internationally recognized level).


You then had a tantrum.

 

[otis_thick]

I've been to quite a few Jazz jams or similar and I don't think this happens so much in the UK?

Jazz is Jazz over here and it means playing the sort of standards that you find in Real Books etc.

I think it can be hard for Bass Players as these things are aimed at horn players coming up and "blowing" for as long as they can get away with it!

Often there are regular rhythm sections or if not - you are expected to keep going and outline the form very consistently - beginners in rhythm sections are going to hold everybody else back and you could find you need a very thick skin - where the slightest "fluctuation" will get crticised..?

I am in Indianapolis...there are a few players still alive here that played with...Wes Montgomery and his brothers....as well as Lionel Hampton...and Ray Brown died here after a show at the Jazz Kitchen...I am originally from Laurinburg NC... and grew up surrounded by music of many local legends Dizzy Gillespie who grew up with my uncle Sam Etheredge who BTW was first trumpet at school... Dizzy tried to get him to go to New York with him but he finished school and went a couple of years later, John Coltrane lived 15 miles west...Woody Shaw's brother cut my hair....when I was a kid, I did not know who these guys were....it was not until many years later did I learn there importance...I can say there is something about that area that produced a boatload of musicians...I still am trying to find the REASON they gravitated to the style that they developed...I guess I am adding to the belief "you are what you eat"....not that I, by no means call myself a Jazz bassist...The point of this is ...I was very very fortunate to Jam with Dizzy after he came into a club and found I was from back home and when he found I related to his friends he asked to set in...I was 17 years old and did not know a thing about Jazz...he told me don't worry.. DO WHAT YOU DO..I will follow"....we just jammed...made music on the spot...and this was a funk R&B band...he played and danced a little and I told him I was sorry for not knowing any Jazz and he said "Nah boy! That's what making music is about! If you stick Jazz into the hole you described above, it can't turn into anything else but frustrating

This makes me very, very sad....

I don't get it!

 

[SanDiegoHarry]

I'd say he's right in the sense that you will probably encounter resistance from some people if you play jazz on an electric bass. Others may not care, but there are usually always at least a few folks who will disregard electric bass as an 'authentic' jazz instrument.

In terms of the actual skill needed for jazz, it certainly would help if you've been playing jazz since you were very young, but if you devote enough time and effort to it now, you'll be able to play whatever you want - including jazz.

Have fun!!

I think the trick would be make sure that you represent yourself accurately to the folks you sit in with... Don't tell them you're Ron Freakin' Carter when you're a jazz n00b. While there are some real jazz snobs, I've found most guys are happy to see someone who wants to learn - so when you find some good guys, keep your ears OPEN and let them help you. You'll learn a lot, be a better player for it and enter the wonderful world of 100% original US born and bred music.

Good luck!

 

[Ed Fuqua]

OTIS - that was mostly in response to the "Dizzy Ellington, R&B covers" etc.
I mean, it's GREAT that Dizzy was encouraging, but at the same time, that's not what he was asking HIS rhythm section for, right? John Lee was playing electric, but his familiarity with this music was pretty deep.

 

[Stereo Joe]

Dude, do you have any idea who you are talking to? Why don't you look up Ed Fuqua's name and see just who it is that you're running your mouth off at...

If I made a bold, unsupported statement in a thread and got shot down by Ed, I'd just take it like a man and try to learn something instead of whining and making myself looking like even more of an imbecile.

Ridiculous...

I just dont get why your being such a jerk. You act like I dont know anything about jazz, when in fact, I know quite a bit. My opinion is just as valid as yours. Its a pretty unrealistic aspiration to make it in a big band without playing upright bass, and its tough to get famous as a jazz player unless youve been playing a long time. Those two things are pretty much undeniable.

So I think its time you GTFO of this thread

My posts were totally reasonable, and had merit, but unfortunately, your such a tool that anyone with a differing opinion has to be wrong. But according to posts by other users, that was to be expected of you. And I expect nothing else but more douchery in your next post to, so dont even bother writing it, because Im out of this thread

 

[Rudreax]

Zeppelin already bailed the topic, guys. If you want to argue with him about this find him in a different one. Although, you'd be off topic then...

 

[Stereo Joe]

I'm sure he's lurking around reading it though...

Zeppelin already bailed the topic, guys. If you want to argue with him about this find him in a different one. Although, you'd be off topic then...