Got a question for the jazz peeps-does this comment have merit?

[Pacman]

Bruce, how about it I say the same thing? I have decades of experience, and can point to great bassists playing jazz on electric. Would that make a difference?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Bruce, how about it I say the same thing? I have decades of experience, and can point to great bassists playing jazz on electric. Would that make a difference?

Well - how many classic Jazz albums can you name that have bass guitar - I have hundreds maybe thousands with DB and if I was compiling a top 100 Jazz albums - I can't think of one that would have bass guitar.

Can you name a great Jazz album (not Fusion) that uses BG?

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Here's a couple of Top 100s from around the web - is there any BG here ?

Top 100 jazz albums of the twentieth century

(by Fred Kaplan)



1 Cannonball Adderley Somethin' else 1958
2 Louis Armstrong Plays W.C. Handy 1954
3 Louis Armstrong Vol. 2 : The Hot fives and sevens 1927
4 Louis Armstrong Vol. 4 : Louis Armstrong and Earl Hines 1928
5 Count Basie The complete Decca recordings 1937
6 Count Basie The complete live Roulette recordings 1958
7 Ran Blake That certain feeling 1990
8 Art Blakey quintet A night at Birdland : volume 1 1954
9 Anthony Braxton 6 Monk's compositions 1987
10 Clifford Brown & Max Roach Clifford Brown with Max Roach 1954
11 Ornette Coleman Change of the century 1959
12 Ornette Coleman & Charlie Haden Soapsuds soapsuds 1977
13 Ornette Coleman Sound museum : hidden man 1996
14 Ornette Coleman The shape of jazz to come 1959
15 John Coltrane A love supreme 1964
16 John Coltrane Blue train 1957
17 John Coltrane Giant steps 1959
18 John Coltrane My favourite things 1961
19 John Coltrane The complete 1961 village Vanguard recordings 1997
20 Miles Davis Cookin' 1956
21 Miles Davis Kind of blue 1959
22 Miles Davis & Sonny Stitt Live in Stockholm 1960
23 Miles Davis Miles ahead 1957
24 Miles Davis Miles smiles 1966
25 Miles Davis Sketches of Spain 1960
26 Miles Davis The complete live at the Plugged nickel, 1965 1996
27 Paul Desmond Easy living 1964
28 Eric Dolphy with Booker Little Far cry 1960
29 Eric Dolphy Out to lunch! 1964
30 Eric Dolphy Outward bound 1960
31 Duke Ellington And his mother called him Bill 1967
32 Duke Ellington At Newport 1956
33 Duke Ellington Such sweet thunder 1957
34 Duke Ellington The Blanton-Webster band 1939
35 Duke Ellington The far Eastern suite 1966
36 Bill Evans trio Sunday at the Village Vanguard 1961
37 Bill Evans The final Vanguard sessions 1980
38 Bill Evans Waltz for Debby 1961
39 Gil Evans Out of the cool 1960
40 Ella Fitzgerald Clap hand shere comes Charlie! 1961
41 Ella Fitzgerald Ella and Louis 1956
42 Ella Fitzgerald Sings the Cole Porter songbook 1956
43 Ella Fitzgerald Sings the George and Ira songbook 1959
44 Chico Freeman Spirit sensitive 1979
45 Dizzy Gillespie & Roy Eldridge Roy and Diz 1954
46 Jimmy Giuffre 3 1961 1961
47 Dexter Gordon Go 1962
48 Dexter Gordon Our man in Paris 1963
49 Herbie Hancock Maiden voyage 1965
50 Coleman Hawkins Body and soul 1939
51 Andrew Hill Point of departure 1964
52 Billie Holiday Body and soul 1956
53 Billie Holiday Greatest hits ?
54 Billie Holiday Songs for distingué lovers 1956
55 Hank Jones, Billy Higgins & Dave Holland The oracle 1989
56 Roland Kirk Rip rig and panic 1965
57 Lee Konitz Motion 1961
58 Jackie McLean Let freedom ring 1963
59 Charles Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus Mingus 1963
60 Charles Mingus Pithecantrophus erectus 1956
61 Charles Mingus Tijuana moods 1957
62 Thelonious Monk Brilliant corners 1956
63 Thelonious Monk Genius of modern music, vol. 1 1951
64 Thelonious Monk Monk's music 1957
65 Thelonious Monk Thelonious alone in San Francisco 1959
66 Thelonious Monk Thelonious with John Coltrane 1957
67 Jelly Roll Morton The birth of the hot : the classic Chicago "Red hot peppers" sessions 1995
68 Gerry Mulligan & Chet Baker Complete Pacific jazz quartet recordings 1952
69 David Murray Ballads for bass clarinet 1991
70 Oliver Nelson The blues and the abstract truth 1961
71 Charlie Parker Jazz at Massey hall 1953
72 Charlie Parker The Charlie Parker story 1945
73 Charlie Parker The complete Dial sessions 1946
74 Charlie Parker The complete live performances on Savoy 1950
75 Charlie Parker The complete Verve recordings 1954
76 Art Pepper Meets the Rhythm section 1957
77 Art Pepper Today 1978
78 Bud Powell Jazz giant 1950
79 Bud Powell The amazing Bud Powell 1949
80 Bud Powell The genius of Bud Powell 1950
81 Sonny Rollins Night at the Village Vanguard 1957
82 Sonny Rollins Our man in jazz 1962
83 Sonny Rollins Saxophone colossus 1956
84 Sonny Rollins Way out West 1957
85 Wayne Shorter Speak no evil 1964
86 Frank Sinatra & Count Basie Sinatra-Basie 1962
87 Sonny Stitt with Art Pepper Atlas blues (blow and ballad) 1980
88 Sun Ra Jazz in silhouette 1958
89 Sun Ra Sunrise in different dimensions 1980
90 Art Tatum Solo piano 1949
91 Art Tatum with Ben Webster The group recordings : vol. 8 1956
92 Cecil Taylor For Olim 1986
93 Sarah Vaughan Crazy and mixed up 1982
94 Sarah Vaughan & the Los Angeles Philharmonic Gershwin live! 1982
95 Sarah Vaughan Swingin' easy 1954
96 Sarah Vaughan With Clifford Brown 1954
97 World saxophone quartet Plays Ellington 1986
98 World saxophone quartet Revue 1980
99 Lester Young The Lester Young story : vol. 1 1936
100 John Zorn Masada 8 1996


The Top 100 Jazz Albums
As Picked by James Hutchins



01. Miles Davis - Kind of Blue
02. John Coltrane - Ascension
03. John coltrane - My Favorite Things
04. Duke Ellington - Okeh Ellington
05. Miles Davis - The Birth of The Cool
06. Thelonius Monk - Brilliant Corners
07. John Coltrane - A Love Supreme
08. Louis Armstrong - Complete "Hot Fives & Sevens"
09. Billie Holiday - The Complete Billie Holiday on Verve 1945-1959
10. Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz To Come
11. John Coltrane - Giant Steps
12. Ella Fitzgerald - 75th Birthday Celebration
13. Sarah Vaughan - Sarah Vaughan with Clifford Brown
14. Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity
15. Roscoe Mitchell Sextet - Sound
16. The Modern Jazz Quartet - Lonely Woman
17. Dave Brubeck Quartet - Time Out
18. John Coltrane - Blue Train
19. Bessie Smith - The Collection
20. Lester Young - With the Oscar Peterson Trio
21. Duke Ellington - The Blanton Webster Band
22. Miles Davis - Bitches Brew
23. Charlie Parker - Yardbird Suite
24. Count Basie - The Complete Atomic Basie
25. Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um
26. Dizzy Gilepsie - Shaw Nuff
27. Art Blakey - Moanin' [Blue Note]
28. Sidney Bechet - Master Takes: Victor Sessions (1932-1943)
29. Fletcher Henderson - A Study in Frustration/Thesaurus of Classic Jazz
30. Benny Goodman - Sing, Sing, Sing [Bluebird]
31. Herbie Hancock - Maiden Voyage
32. Sonny Rollins - Saxophone Colossus
33. Clifford Brown - The Beginning & The End
34. Sonny Rollins - Way Out West
35. Max Roach - Percussion Bitter Sweet
36. Herbie Hancock - Head Hunters
37. Sun Ra - Atlantis
38. Fats Navarro & Tadd Dameron - The Complete Blue Note and Capitol Recordings
39. Wardell Gray - Wardell Gray Memorial, Vol. 1
40. Sonny Stitt - Endgame Brilliance: Constellation & Tune-Up
41. J.J. Johnson & Al Grey - Things Are Getting Better All the Time
42. Coleman Hawkins - Body and Soul [RCA]
43. Dexter Gordon - Go!
44. Phil Woods - Rights of Swing
45. Clifford Brown/Max Roach - At Basin Street
46. Horace Silver - Horace Silver and the Jazz Messengers
47. Art Farmer with Benny Golson - Meet The Jazztet
48. Jackie Mclean - Destination: Out!
49. Freddie Hubbard - Ready For Freddie
50. Hank Mobley - soul Station
51. Donald Byrd - A New Perspective
52. Wes Montgomery - The Incredible Jazz Guitar of...
53. Lee Morgan - The Sidewinder
54. Cannonball Adderly - Somethin' Else
55. Grant Green - Idle Moments
56. Joe Henderson - Page One
57. Horace Silver - Song For My Father
58. Bobby Timmons - This Here Is Bobby Timmons
59. Jimmy Smith - Back at the Chicken Shack
60. Gene Harris - Introducing The Three Sounds
61. Jack McDuff - Brother Jack McDuff Live!
62. Shirley Scott - Soul Shoutin'
63. Peggy Lee - Capitol Collectors Series, Vol. 1: The Early Years
64. Willis "Gator" Jackson - Legends of Acid Jazz
65. George Benson - Beyond the Blue Horizon
66. Scott Joplin - His Complete Works
67. Jelly Roll Morton - 1923-1924 [Milestone]
68. King Oliver - Great Original Performances 1923-1930
69. Kid Ory's Creole Jazz Band - Kid Ory's Creole Jazz Band (1954)
70. Johnny Dodds - 1926
71. Artie Shaw - Big Bands
72. Lester Young and the Oscar Peterson Trio - S/T
73. Bud Powell - The Amazing Bud Powell, Vol. 1
74. Erroll Garner - Concert by the Sea
75. Louis Armstrong and His All-Stars - Plays W.C. Handy
76. Miles Davis - Round About Midnight
77. Stan Getz - Sweet Rain
78. Miles Davis - Miles Ahead
79. Miles Davis - Miles Smiles
80. Woody Shaw - Rosewood
81. Sun Ra and his Arkestra - Live at Montreux
82. Cecil Taylor - Unit Structures
83. McCoy Tyner - Expansions
84. Eric Dolphy - Out There
85. John Coltrane - Live At The Village Vanguard
86. Bill Evans - Sunday at the Village Vanguard [live]
87. Lionel Hampton - Hamp: The Legendary Decca Recordings
88. Charlie Christian - The Genius of the Electric Guitar [Columbia]
89. Earl Hines - Tour de Force
90. Bix Beiderbecke - Bixology, 1924-30
91. Eubie Blake - Blues and Rags (1917-1921)
92. Albert Ammons - The First Day
93. Lennie Tristano - Descent into the Maelstrom
94. Charles Mingus - Pithecanthropus Erectus
95. Joe McPhee - Topology
96. Don Cherry - Mu
97. Mose Allison - The Sage of Tippo
99. Butch Morris - Dust To Dust
100. Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue

 

[Phil Smith]

Well - I think that for "straight ahead " Jazz - then the whole sound is about a swinging Double Bass "sound" - as soon as you introduce Bass Guitar it is very hard to get that same "sound world" ....?

This isn't really true, and sometimes depending on what your DB sounds like against the band and I'm talking primarily big band here, an EBG or EDB may have a better sound for the group. Swinging is independent of what bass you play that's all about your time feel, you can have a vocalist walk a pretty mean swinging line with no instrument.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I wasn't saying that you can only swing on DB - but that the sound of classic Jazz involves a swinging Double Bass "sound". I would still hold up the challenge - name me a great Jazz album with swinging bass (not Fusion,Latin etc) that uses bass guitar and for each one I'll name you a hundred with Double Bass!

 

[Phil Smith]

I wasn't saying that you can only swing on DB - but that the sound of classic Jazz involves a swinging Double Bass "sound". I would still hold up the challenge - name me a great Jazz album with swinging bass (not Fusion,Latin etc) that uses bass guitar and for each one I'll name you a hundred with Double Bass!

How about in the last 10 years?

 

[Ed Fuqua]

How bout paisley shirts?
It doesn't matter what how many records have Mickey Mouse Casio Tone watches on them, what do YOU as a musician hear as your voice?

Play THAT.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

How about in the last 10 years?

I bought 3 recently-released albums in the last 10 days with very nice Double Bass - by John Goldsby, Stanley Clarke and Christian Mcbride...

I would be happy to sound like any of those guys!

 

[Lady Kayri]

I'd suggest learning more about playing jazz with bass guitar first; get a good grip on your current instrument. A lot of small jazz groups use BG. Once you get the hang of it, then pick up DB and get some lessons in how to play it, how to transfer your knowledge of BG to DB (while some skills will be similar / transferable, others are not), and keep on playing. You're certainly young enough to be able to learn DB in the future...Heck, I'm 50+ and hope to eventually learn at least electric upright bass, once I feel I'm fairly comfortable with BG... Of course, once I start playing out, I'll be looking for small bands to play with (jazz equivilent of rock bar/dance bands), not larger ensembles, etc. In the meantime, going to jam sessions - even if mostly to listen and get a feel for the genre - will give you a better idea of if this is a direction you really want to eventually move into. As I said above, whatever you learn in learning jazz will certainly stand you in good stead in whatever other genres you play in!

 

[Pacman]

Well - how many classic Jazz albums can you name that have bass guitar - I have hundreds maybe thousands with DB and if I was compiling a top 100 Jazz albums - I can't think of one that would have bass guitar.

Can you name a great Jazz album (not Fusion) that uses BG?

Two or three that spring to mind:

Hotel Hello - Gary Burton (with Steve Swallow)

Two by 2 - Steve Swallow and Steve Kuhn

Live in Tokyo - Michele Petrucciani (with Anthony Jackson)


Or how about swinging records with NO BASS AT ALL:

Anything by Jimmy Smith or Larry Goldings....



The point is not "I can name more than you", the point is it's entirely possible to swing without double bass. So, again, play with an appropriate tone, and swing. If you do that, you'll work.

 

[Ed Fuqua]

Not to unduly harsh, but UNDER THE MISSOURI SKY is CHARLIE HADEN and Pat....somebody's got a nice pitcher of Charlie with his son Josh's P-bass strapped on, if that helps

 

[Pacman]

Doh! You're right, of course. I was thinking about Steve Swallow and Steve Kuhn....

 

[cnltb]

I'd add steve swallows' "real book" to that and "always pack your uniform on top". "Damaged in transit is fun too".

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

No doubt fairly nice records - but I have never seen them mentioned as true classics of Jazz and I can't see anybody putting them in the best ever Jazz albums - and if you want to be recommending albums to listen to for studying Jazz bass - it would include things with Paul Chambers,Ray Brown,Sam Jones,Scott Le Faro,Jimmy Blanton,Milt Hinton,Ron Carter,Charlie Mingus,Richard Davis,Jimmy Garrison,Red Mitchell - I could easily go on to about a hundred players who are essential listening for Jazz Bass...?

Without getting to those albums...

 

[cnltb]

No doubt fairly nice records - but I have never seen them mentioned as true classics of Jazz and I can't see anybody putting them in the best ever Jazz albums - and if you want to be recommending albums to listen to for studying Jazz bass - it would include things with Paul Chambers,Ray Brown,Sam Jones,Scott Le Faro,Jimmy Blanton,Milt Hinton,Ron Carter,Charlie Mingus,Richard Davis,Jimmy Garrison,Red Mitchell - I could easily go on to about a hundred players who are essential listening for Jazz Bass...?

Without getting to those albums...

Those are all relevant. I agree, but to me Jazz is an approach first of all and the instrument is irrelevant for the most part. The "traditional" instrument is obviously the DB and "Classic" Jazz albums are DB I recon. That however does not mean those others are less valid or relevant, regardless if they are mentioned somewhere as classic albums. Times have changed from those years when Jazz was first played but the approach stays the same.
If one is intent on playing electric bass in "jazz", those steve swallow albums are a good point of reference. Knowing the History of this particular style will help one more than using any specific instrument I think.

Paul Motians' electric bebob band CD too are fun .(I just remembered)

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

How bout paisley shirts?
It doesn't matter what how many records have Mickey Mouse Casio Tone watches on them, what do YOU as a musician hear as your voice?

Play THAT.

I do know bass guitar players in Jazz in the UK who have that vision and stick with it - but they tell me how hard it is and for every gig there are dozens of DB players who will get the call ahead of them - and in fact the only way they can get to play Jazz is to write and arrange all the music themselves, be band leader and get all the gigs!

Of course you can play BG in Jazz - but it is much, much harder - why put that difficulty in your way - why not just do what hundreds and thousand of Jazz players have done before..?

You may be that one in a million, who turns out to be a Jaco - but it's very,very unlikely and surely not the best advice to give as a starting point...?

 

[Rudreax]

As I think I said previously, just wait a couple decades and things will probably change.

 

[cnltb]

It's in part a matter of the"traditionalist jazz police" relaxing the "rules" a little I recon

 

[Pacman]

Of course you can play BG in Jazz - but it is much, much harder - why put that difficulty in your way - why not just do what hundreds and thousand of Jazz players have done before..?

Because Jazz isn't about doing what hundreds and thousands have done before. It's about self-expression.

 

[Jim Campbell]

Because Jazz isn't about doing what hundreds and thousands have done before. It's about self-expression.

if leo fender had built the precision in 10 years sooner the face of jazz might look a lot different today........dragging a db to far flung gigs on the roof of a plymouth knowing that the audiences could barely hear it might have convinced a lot of guys to go electric sooner....