Got a question for the jazz peeps-does this comment have merit?

[Ed Fuqua]

Lovely myspace page, I particularly enjoy the Santa hat. I wonder if it's been named yet?

Link Removed

No sound files, but the titles are really, really fierce.

Totally.

 

[deaf pea]

...Its a pretty unrealistic aspiration to make it in a big band without playing upright bass...

Although I DID play doublebass in the 60's and 70's, I played electric bass on what are probably the best known "live" double LPs (CDs) by the Don Ellis Orchestra . . . 1970's "Live at Fillmore" and 1971's "Tears of Joy" . . .

...there are plenty of guys that played electric bass in big bands...and small ensembles.

True . . . FWIW, I've also played (or recorded) in small groups (on electric bass) with Willie Bobo, Gabor Szabo, Bobby Hutcherson, John Klemmer, Sonny Simmons, Mike Nock, Bill Conners . . .

 

[otis_thick]

OTIS - that was mostly in response to the "Dizzy Ellington, R&B covers" etc.
I mean, it's GREAT that Dizzy was encouraging, but at the same time, that's not what he was asking HIS rhythm section for, right? John Lee was playing electric, but his familiarity with this music was pretty deep.

I will give you that but the message was to start somewhere...I agree you need to have some vocabulary before you can have a conversation...but that's not all there is to it...inovators are outside of the box and IMO JAZZ is about innovation and improvosation...but it still starts inside the player...the OP has enough training to know when he's not just outside the box but completely off the road in the wrong lane or going in the wrong direction...we are talking about Jamming with people.... not a paid gig where he is expected to know every shape of the pattern....remember all of the guys mentioned started when they were in thier late teens The Laurinburg Institute is a college prep High School

 

[rarbass]

I'd say he's right in the sense that you will probably encounter resistance from some people if you play jazz on an electric bass. Others may not care, but there are usually always at least a few folks who will disregard electric bass as an 'authentic' jazz instrument.

At my University, I emailed the guy who ran the Jazz Ensemble, and asked if electric bass was fine. He said it was fine, but later in the email said "are you planning on studying upright bass?"

It seems they're coming to realize that electric bass works in jazz, but some people still prefer the upright.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I just dont get why your being such a jerk. You act like I dont know anything about jazz, when in fact, I know quite a bit. My opinion is just as valid as yours.

Sorry - that's where you are wrong - Ed's opinion is backed up by books and recordings etc. etc - he can prove that what he say works in the real world. I see nothing from you in any way similar - so I can only presume that Ed's opinion is much better "informed" and therefore worth much, much more!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I am in Indianapolis...there are a few players still alive here that played with...Wes Montgomery and his brothers....as well as Lionel Hampton...and Ray Brown died here after a show at the Jazz Kitchen...I am originally from Laurinburg NC... and grew up surrounded by music of many local legends Dizzy Gillespie who grew up with my uncle Sam Etheredge who BTW was first trumpet at school... Dizzy tried to get him to go to New York with him but he finished school and went a couple of years later, John Coltrane lived 15 miles west...Woody Shaw's brother cut my hair....when I was a kid, I did not know who these guys were....it was not until many years later did I learn there importance...I can say there is something about that area that produced a boatload of musicians...I still am trying to find the REASON they gravitated to the style that they developed...I guess I am adding to the belief "you are what you eat"....not that I, by no means call myself a Jazz bassist...The point of this is ...I was very very fortunate to Jam with Dizzy after he came into a club and found I was from back home and when he found I related to his friends he asked to set in...I was 17 years old and did not know a thing about Jazz...he told me don't worry.. DO WHAT YOU DO..I will follow"....we just jammed...made music on the spot...and this was a funk R&B band...he played and danced a little and I told him I was sorry for not knowing any Jazz and he said "Nah boy! That's what making music is about! If you stick Jazz into the hole you described above, it can't turn into anything else but frustrating

:

I wouldn't disgree with anything you say - but these are two different worlds.

I was trying to help the OP who has no Jazz experience, has only played bass guitar in rock/pop and the sort of jams likely to be involved in Britain, are not going to be anything like the picture you are painting above...

 

[hellfleet]

Sorry - that's where you are wrong - Ed's opinion is backed up by books and recordings etc. etc - he can prove that what he say works in the real world. I see nothing from you in any way similar - so I can only presume that Ed's opinion is much better "informed" and therefore worth much, much more!

I just noticed Zepplinfreak is 16 years old, my oh my.
I hope I wasn't so damn sure of myself 6 yeard ago

 

[David Wilson]

closed pending edit/review

and, we're open again. Let's keep it civil

 

[Lady Kayri]

My bass instructor plays mostly jazz, can play bass guitar, electric upright, and double bass (as well as a bunch of other instruments); he plays what the band director / leader wants him to play. And he does play bass guitar a fair bit, both a five string and a four string. However, he also says that, even if you don't intend to play a lot / any jazz, it helps to study jazz anyway; a lot of the techniques etc you learn to play jazz will stand you in good stead in many other genres. I wanted to learn some jazz anyway, so I'm currently learning how to play bass in a jazz setting. My instructor says I'm doing fairly well, and I'm quite a bit older than the OP. Mind, I've been a FAN of jazz since my college days, so I'm not new to how jazz sounds.

Fassa, I'd encourage you to go to several of the jam sessions WITHOUT an instrument, just to listen and learn. At what level of experience are the other musicians at? Do they have some time set off for people who are fairly new at jazz? What pieces do they normally play? Is it mostly improv, or are they working from jazz standards? Are there some of them willing to play along with you, while giving you some help at learning the ins and outs of the genre? If they're geared for more experienced players, maybe someone there can help you find a group that's more oriented toward those who haven't played much jazz. Actually, if there are regular scheduled jam sessions for any type of music, it's best to show up and LISTEN ONLY the first few times you go, to see what songs they usually play, how the jams are organized, etc. Beats showing up with instrument, expecting to play, only to find out you can't play whatever they're working on, etc. Makes it a lot more fun to play, if you have some idea of what you're getting yourself into!

Any way, check out those jam sessions, and hopefully you'll find a place you can fit into, and have fun. Even if you don't do much playing, just listening and watching the other musos can be both instructive and fun!

 

[fdeck]

I agree with going to the jam just to listen. Some jam sessions are cut-throat, and others are quite laid back. Some are mainly for horn players to blow, and in other cases, the leader of the jam will look for ways to blend rhythm players into the mix. Some are supportive of beginners, others not.

But also, you might meet some like-minded people who are interested in forming a band just to practice. That can be a good way to learn, in a relatively low pressure environment.

 

[Fassa Albrecht]

I'm sure I can find some way to play jazz...

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

I'm sure I can find some way to play jazz...

You can probably take classes or join a workshop group - if you look into "Continuing Education" locally - there are a lot of groups around - at universities and other educational establishments.

I have regularly been going to a Jazz Workshop on Saturdays at the University of Sussex - that's where I learnt
most apart from on TB via Ed, Chris F, Paul W etc on the DB side!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

At my University, I emailed the guy who ran the Jazz Ensemble, and asked if electric bass was fine. He said it was fine, but later in the email said "are you planning on studying upright bass?"

It seems they're coming to realize that electric bass works in jazz, but some people still prefer the upright.

Well - I think that for "straight ahead " Jazz - then the whole sound is about a swinging Double Bass "sound" - as soon as you introduce Bass Guitar it is very hard to get that same "sound world" ....?

Generally as Ed mentioned - doublers will use Bass Guitar for Jazz where it is "groove-based" - funk lines, Latin or other world music fusions with Jazz.

But when somebody like Stanley Clarke comes back to (just) Jazz - like on his recent album "Jazz in the Garden" - then he exclusively plays DB - bowed and pizz.

So - if you are seriously studying Jazz as a bass player - you can't afford to ignore the huge impact that Double Bass has had on the music over the last 50 years or more!

 

[Pacman]

But when somebody like Stanley Clarke comes back to (just) Jazz - like on his recent album "Jazz in the Garden" - then he exclusively plays DB - bowed and pizz.

Not exclusively. You should listen to it all the way through....



(Granted - almost exclusively....)

 

[vagus]

If you go down the jazz road and love it it is inevitable that you will want to play both.

Sometimes one or the other feels right, but neither has to be right. It is almost a stupid argument because we all know there are some electric jazz players and double player some young-ins some old guys...

When I was gigging with jazz groups it was 1000 times easier to bring the electric but the double looked cooler than anything else. Sometimes it was practical sometimes not, sometimes stages where too small - but I never actually got grief for choosing one over the other so long as I was on top of the changes and in time.

Learning jazz is all relative too... There is a certain amount of feel, a lot of knowledge, but mostly passion that goes into it. Age is a stupid requirement to talk about- If you are like me and lack any naturally ability starting young and practicing forever is the only way to get proficient, but plenty of people are talented and smart enough to pick it up anytime they want to.

 

[ding_man]

I've seen this discussion many times. In the end the double bass player almost always will get the gig.

But to people that wanna play straight ahead on electric. Do it. Play the **** out of it.

 

[Rudreax]

Obviously, as a society jazz is going to need someone to really plow the way for electric bass in jazz, similar to how Jaco did it for fusion and cats like Entwistle did for rock. At some point, there's going to be someone that makes such a big impact in the jazz world that people will accept in in straight-ahead.

The other solution would be to just wait around 50 years.

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

Not exclusively. You should listen to it all the way through....



(Granted - almost exclusively....)

Well - what I meant was when he was actually playing Jazz - he is playing DB - when he is playing RHCP covers then he uses BG!!

 

[Dubalator]

There is no reason not to play straight ahead jazz on the bass guitar. Before Jimmy Smith the organ was not considered to be a "jazz instrument." In the very early days of jazz you had no saxaphones, but there were banjos. Now sax has become one of the definitive jazz instruments and not many people are playing banjo in jazz bands.

One thing I would recommend though, if you intend to play bass guitar in a straight ahead setting, is to use flatwound strings, and possibly some foam muting. This will give you a sound that is much closer to an upright than roundwound strings, and I think it is more appropriate for walking lines and more or less acoustic bands.

Also, don't worry about your age. As long as you have a strong desire to play jazz, and you listen to a lot of it, I think you can start playing at any age. Anything you learn about one style of music can be applied to another. I do not consider myself a jazz player, but I have been studying jazz for a few years. My knowledge of chord movements and substitutions that I gained from studying jazz has been very useful in all of the other playing situations I am in, whether funk, reggae, rock, etc. It also helps A LOT when composing. I used to feel very limited with my chord choices. Now I am aware of a world of chords, and how to make them work togethor.

Good luck, and don't forget to have fun!

 

[Bruce Lindfield]

There is no reason not to play straight ahead jazz on the bass guitar.
As long as you have a strong desire to play jazz, and you listen to a lot of it..

But if you do listen to a lot of Jazz, you will find that 99% of the best recorded examples - use Double Bass!

I do not consider myself a jazz player...!

So...should we consider that your advice is more "informed" than someone like Ed who is a Jazz player and has decades of experience..?