Got fired from two bands, help a brother improve his groove!

[strictlybass_ic]

The problem (so far as I can tell) is that you're completely inaudible in the mix. And if nobody can hear you, then why split the money another way to keep you around. Guitarists will always tell you to turn down, then tell you to turn down more, then just a little bit more. The trick is to know when it's good advice and when to flat out ignore them.

 

[g4string]

Just briefly listened to the first two songs of your first set. One thing I noticed (stood out to me) is your tone! You stuck out of the mix, and not in a good way. Your tone kinda has too much of a modern vibe to it. I suspect your 322 and round wound strings as the most probable culprits. GHS precision flats and less hifi cab would prob help you sit in the mix a tad better.

 

[Nev375]

Practice with a drum machine ... a lot

I dont have the ability to listen to your tracks on my phone but it seems youve gotten a lot of feedback already.

I get complimented a lot on my ability to lock in with almost any drummer. I dont know how i do it. Im not conciously listening to the drummer at all. Its like a reflex and my focus is on following the guitars and hearing the changes. (Im weak in that area BTW)

My only explanation is that i have spent years jamming with a drum machine and would often switch the pattern to a random beat with my toe while i was playing. I just thought it was a fun challenging thing to do seeing how fast i could adapt a groove over an unexpected change. But i think it helped my playing immensely.

As for confounding factors... ive found that my shortest gigs with bands were those where i felt more compelled to be outspoken about my opinions.

FWIW

 

[lfmn16]

I get complimented a lot on my ability to lock in with almost any drummer. I dont know how i do it. Im not conciously listening to the drummer at all. Its like a reflex and my focus is on following the guitars and hearing the changes. (Im weak in that area BTW)

Just goes to show there are different ways to approach this. When I first start working with a new group I listen to the drummer very closely. Often I'll position myself so I can watch his kick pedal. Not to say that I always play exactly what he is playing, but I make sure to compliment what he is playing. I always start out playing simply until we are really locking in and then I'll add fills as needed. It works best if the drummer takes the same approach.

I don't think there is anything wrong with playing a lot of notes - if it works. The problem is that most people who play a lot of notes are just noodling. It's hard to play a lot of notes and make it work, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try.

OP - Next time you get in a band, I would suggest going back to basics until you can lock in with the drummer. You can always add the flash and sizzle later.

 

[Panther]

I have a few initial thoughts:

The bass and drums have a 'stiff' feel combined...it's not entirely on you.

What really stands out to me:

Your tone isn't fitting in here at all...perhaps it's part mix...but you need more bottom and presence here. At times it feels to me you aren't feeling this music at all. Sometimes the notes are maybe short and reserved...not ringing out enough in spots or filling the space..but the tone might accent this. It almost seems that you guys had gigged when things weren't all gelled.

That said...the songs and drumming -to me- are so similar and the drums (sound good to me overall) are straight forward it would get really boring for me...really fast. You have to get creative.

That American Girl song had no groove in the bass at all. Lots of space etc to get it grooving but it was very empty.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

I think the drummer is fighting to keep things together. It's probably frustrating for him.

 

[eric_B]

IMO:

I have a few initial thoughts:

The bass and drums have a 'stiff' feel combined...it's not entirely on you.

What really stands out to me:

Your tone isn't fitting in here at all...perhaps it's part mix...but you need more bottom and presence here. At times it feels to me you aren't feeling this music at all. Sometimes the notes are maybe short and reserved...not ringing out enough in spots or filling the space..but the tone might accent this. It almost seems that you guys had gigged when things weren't all gelled.

I agree with all of the above, was thinking the same while listening.

Having played drums for 7 years, I can't really say that the drummer is bad or struggling with timing from the 2nd set I skimmed through.
Although I don't care much for the sound of his kick drum, either a small one or tuned up pretty high.
Some bass notes were a bit early or late and also some drum hits were not spot on.

But I think it's more that the bass and drums don't sound as one solid rhythm foundation.
More like 2 people happen to play the same song together.
I think it's part matching sound better (maybe other amp settings or strings) and also more practicing with the drummer to, have to say it, lock in better.

Or maybe you just had bad luck 2x with a drummer who doesn't blend well with your sound or timing.
I had that happen several times as well, although as a drummer.

 

[godofthunder59]

Your playing seems more than passable though as others have said a little tentative. There seems to be two kinds of bassists those who follow the drummer or those who lead him around by the nose. I am of the later, constantly pushing and pulling our drummer, it's subtle but it makes the music alive. The more I listen I don't think the drummer is any great shakes, it takes two.

 

[armybass]

I only heard a the first tune and I listened before I commented and did not read the other comments before I listened. The drummer has really good meter (time) and plays very confident and strong. You are sometimes behind the beat and sometimes in front of it. Your time is not bad, just not tight. You dont hit the hits and turns with him. That drives a solid rhythym player nuts. You constantly feel like you are dragging someone along or trying to pull them back. Its too much like work. I like your tone but agree it is a bit middy and modern for the gig.

You are not a bad player by any means. You are just playing with a good drummer who wants to groove. You might benefit from listening to different kinds of music that really focus on drum and bass interaction. It isnt a metronomic thing. It is a feel thing... You can fix it man. You are doing well....

Listening to the third track now and you are def behind him and not catching the hits with him. If you are new to the band that is understandable but still an issue that needs to be addressed asap.

 

[BaileyMan]

I haven't listened to the tracks, but have read some of the comments. I've been playing a little over 20 years, but really began working on improving my playing in the last 3. I played with a group recently where the drummer mentioned that I was pretty consistently just behind the beat. I have theories about why that was, but won't go into it here. What I have been working on is getting really solid with my time. It still needs improvement. I've been taking lessons from someone who has had me playing 1/4 notes at 60BPM using a metronome (no drum machine, only the metronome beat). It's way harder than I thought. Try it. Feel it. Think about playing relaxed and feel/hear where your beat falls. Think about stepping it up a touch and feel/hear where the beat falls. Feel the difference when playing just behind or just in front of the beat. One suggestion that my teacher has had is to have the 16th notes going in my head while playing the quarter notes. This provides a solid framework from which we can pick notes out of. Hope this helps...

 

[eric_B]

One suggestion that my teacher has had is to have the 16th notes going in my head while playing the quarter notes. This provides a solid framework from which we can pick notes out of. Hope this helps...

Right, 'us drummers' usually say: play slow, count fast and play fast, count slow.
I also practiced the slow quarter notes exercise, even at 40 BPM.
It's harder than you think but helps great for improving timing.

 

[Panther]

And as an earlier poster said - hi-profile they are not..and don't beat yourself up too much...I hear *lots* of guitar flubs too. And Bon Jovi's "Runaway" doesn't fit that setlist..

I think moreso than a metronome, you can go on youtube and search for 'bass backing tracks' and 'backing tracks for bass' to get music to jam too on your own. Different keys, styles and flavors.

In fact..just listen to them without a bass a few times..see what you feel.

 

[Tugg]

Sounds to me like the drummer is in take charge mode, as if it is totally up to him to drive the bus, so to speak. I'd turn up the bottom end and grab a pick and camp out on that kick, kinda of a " here I am mofo" deal with it type groove. But I'd know the material as well as I could.

 

[eric_B]

Sounds to me like the drummer is in take charge mode, as if it is totally up to him to drive the bus, so to speak.

Right, the drummer sounds like the one behind the wheel, you sound more like sitting on the backseat.
It's part of the missing strong rhythm part I mentioned earlier.

 

[The Bass Clef]

I listened to a lot of your samples, and I'm not going to dissect your audio performance (although I do commend you for being willing to let people rip your playing apart). But one thing that you mentioned that immediately put up a red flag for me is, you said you hum the hi hat rhythm (sort of like beat boxing it) while you play. That suggests to me that you may be focusing more on the microbeat than the macrobeat. And that may be what's making it hard for you and the drums to lock in together consistently. It's much easier to deviate from the tempo (and play tug of war with the drums) when you're feeling fast 8th or 16th notes as a bass player, instead of focusing on the slower 1/4 notes (i.e. the macrobeat), which is the groove of the song. I suggest that you really concentrate on that macrobeat 1/4 note, and let the microbeats just fall into place on their own.

I know with my drummer, if the pocket starts getting loose, I'll look directly at him and start bobbing my head and whole body to the slower macrobeat (the groove of the song that the crowd dances to), and the pocket usually locks right in immediately. And as a bonus.. it just looks like were rocking out to the crowd, while we're really correcting timing/rhythm errors on the fly.

 

[Pacman]

From what I hear, from 3 or 4 songs, is you tend to rush non busy tunes (like "who wouldn't want to be me"), and need to pay more attention to note length. Note duration is a bass player's secret weapon. On "Who Wouldn't" crank that low end, and let those big root-fives ring!

 

[Stealth Fighter]

Maybe being so low in the mix while singing the drummer's part over his playing has something to do with it?

I'm kidding, but at some point you have to internalize the groove and relax to play it.

You can practice and improve you timekeeping, but if you don't feel the groove you can't play it. Do you like dancing?

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think this pretty much nails your problem. You have so much going on inside your head that you can't keep it all together. Forget trying to play the drummer's parts in your head. Instead, listen to what he is doing and try to lock with him. I'd key on the bass drum.

 

[samson3382]

Overall less notes, constant groove and authority.

This. Roots.

 

[jallenbass]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I think this pretty much nails your problem. You have so much going on inside your head that you can't keep it all together. Forget trying to play the drummer's parts in your head. Instead, listen to what he is doing and try to lock with him. I'd key on the bass drum.

A lot of people have said this but I am going to disagree. I took a lesson a few years ago with Ed Friedland to work on my time. He had me verbalize the the subdivisions while playing with the metronome at a slow tempo. Much more challenging than it would seem. I've been using this technique on anything that I'm working on and my time has greatly improved as has my awareness. Check out Ed's book Bass Grooves for in depth discussion on this topic.

 

[SamJ]

For me, the benchmark of live rock'n roll performances is this from the reunion of "Blind Faith" ... Will Weeks on bass is probably the bench mark of touring bassists.. Granted, the recording quality of this is probably an order of magnitude better than what you had but you can hear he's NEVER lost in the mix.. even with 4 guitars, a keyboardist, backup singers... he commands the beat with the drummer (who doesn't over play).

But keep in mind, these guys are the Omega of musicians... and many of us are the Alpha.