Got fired today.

[45acp]

Yeah I am really serious. Riding a horse was a pretty standard way of traveling at one point. I'm glad we got past that. Sorry, I would never want to be in a band with a "boss" that thinks he has the right to tell me how and what to play.

You can go ahead and assign me a tent in your camp. I just turned 39... been in too many bands to recall... never been in (or would deal with) one dude calling all the shots- especially against the wishes of the other band members.

Band "alpha male"? Sure. Band "organizer"? You bet. Band "main songwriter"? Heck yea! Band leader in the definition of most TB threads? **** NO.

 

[electracoyote]

If that guy is a control freak that feels he needs to micromanage my playing, and doesn't appreciate my input, I would have to pass on that gig.

Like I said:

"I'm sure it still wouldn't be worth it for some musicians."

 

[GlennW]

I'm a big fan of what The Mole has been doing post-Canned Heat. Hollywood Fats, Fred Kaplan, all that stuff.

I've never really found the old stuff boring. Not much excites me more than Slim Harpo's 'Tee-ni-nee-ni-nu'. It gets boring when it's a bunch of people who aren't too aware of the tradition and how to make the music exciting.

I have the double CD of Slim Harpo's Excello recordings, about 45 songs, and if I had to point to any one place to go for lessons in blues bass, that's it.

The old stuff isn't really boring at all, but from the perspective of a newer bass player I can see how they'd get tired of repeating the same thing over and over. The thing is, many songs from the 50s and 60s were defined by a repeating bassline. Duck Dunn was another guy who kept things fairly simple, many songs had a specific bassline, but they were good basslines...that's where the challenge is.

 

[Stumbo]

The guitar player, who is the band leader, said that I was too jazzy. Said that in real blues the bass just repeats the same riff throughout the entire song. No variation, no stretch.
He would show me what he wanted to be the bass part and to me they were really guitar riffs.

I suggest finding the original recordings or songs of the same type/period and give listen. See what was actually being played instead of just getting the "bass part" from the BL.

When I would play what he wanted it simply didn't work with the drummer. It had no groove, swing, or feel. The BL would pick very obscure songs from the 50's and want to "do them just like the record".
For a while I was just playing what I felt would work better and the band was developing a pretty unique style. The drummer and harp player were real happy with the sound and we got great response from audience and club owners alike.
Any one else experience this sort of thing?

As in any business, the one who runs the place/signs the checks makes the rules, even if they don't make sense.

I would have suggested that you ask drummer/harp player to approach the BL and discuss with him how the new guy was working out, in their opinion. And for them let him know they were locking into your playing style and since the band was getting a good reception at the gigs, that the new guy's playing style be considered a big plus for the band. And then go from there. May have still ended the same but at least you gave the BL a chance to hear from the other band members.

Letting the manager (any manager, band or otherwise) know before hand that changes need to made and getting approval for the changes is one of the main things you need to do to keep your job.

Should I have just done what the BL wanted at the cost of sounding better?

It appears that your only choice was to leave the group because you weren't going to be following the BL's requests and he would end up firing you anyways (as did happen).

Good luck.

 

[eukatheude]

I don't get the point of band leaders in most cases.
Actually, it seems to be mostly an american thing, i've never heard of "band leaders" in italy.

 

[walterw]

I guess as a "traditional blues" aficionado he definitely plays in a very narrow niche. I just don't have the kind of love for the "blind lemon two tooth" tradition that was the goal of the BL.

so you have obvious contempt for the entire style the guy was shooting for, are you surprised it didn't work out?

(to be fair, really nailing old chicago blues only works when the whole band nails it; if playing the "right" part didn't gel with the drummer, maybe the drummer wasn't doing it right either.)

 

[lfmn16]

Did you discuss what was expected of you before you joined the band? If not, you should have brought the subject up before you joined the band.

 

[fhm555]

If you took a job painting houses and your boss told you to paint the house white and you painted it red, what would happen?

Pont being, it doesn't matter what personality type, skill level, or whatever, if your boss tells you to do a certain thing, you have two choices, do it or find another job.

Bitching about it after the fact only makes you an unemployed whiner instead of an employed individual upholding the responsibility you took on when you agreed to take the job.

If it was a democratic situation and the front man gets outvoted, then it's his responsibility to respect the will of the majority. If it's a BL situation it's no different than working any other job, the BL is your boss and you do what you are told or you find another job.

You knew going in it was the BL's show, so why complain after the fact? Did you make the band sound better? Who cares? Apparently not the only guy who's opinion mattered.

Which is why you are an unemployed whiner this morning instead of an employed musician looking for a more acceptable position.

 

[rtslinger]

Sorry to hear you got fired but it sounds like the band is going no where anyway. No groove no interest for the listener. Like others have mention put together your own band with the other members they aren't married to the BL many musicians are in more then one band so that is what I would do.Your final message to the bl about bass playing is take a listen to An Evening with the Allman Brothers from 1992 and to listen to the bass in those songs there are some serious blues grooves. May be he will get it.

 

[Itzayana]

Duck Dunn was another guy who kept things fairly simple, many songs had a specific bassline, but they were good basslines...that's where the challenge is.

But what if the "bass lines" are really "guitar riffs" that play along with the guitar player and don't groove with the drummer?

 

[Itzayana]

If you took a job painting houses and your boss told you to paint the house white and you painted it red, what would happen?

Pont being, it doesn't matter what personality type, skill level, or whatever, if your boss tells you to do a certain thing, you have two choices, do it or find another job.

Bitching about it after the fact only makes you an unemployed whiner instead of an employed individual upholding the responsibility you took on when you agreed to take the job.

If it was a democratic situation and the front man gets outvoted, then it's his responsibility to respect the will of the majority. If it's a BL situation it's no different than working any other job, the BL is your boss and you do what you are told or you find another job.

You knew going in it was the BL's show, so why complain after the fact? Did you make the band sound better? Who cares? Apparently not the only guy who's opinion mattered.

Which is why you are an unemployed whiner this morning instead of an employed musician looking for a more acceptable position.

Sounds like you are a band leader?

 

[bassbully]

In the infamous words of Buddy Rich, "do you want a beard or do you want a job?"

What you were playing may very well have sounded better but apparently, didn't please the guy who was "signing your paycheck".

Ditto,

I learned when I first started playing off the chords so to speak to get back on them quickly. In allot of music Blues and country for sure you just have to smile and play roots, if you don't it's the stink eye or like you ..your out.

One thing that got me into some of the good bands I was in was that I served the songs. I have talked to allot of players who complain Bass players always want to play outside the role and not serve the song. Allot of bass players are very guilty of it and try to press the bass in the music or make them stand out. If you ever heard a drummer play with weird fills and tempos to basic 4/4 songs you get my drift.

The Band I was just in was like this. I knew to serve the song and do not stray from it or..the eye was on me. I was playing a cool riff one song on the D and G strings and the BL said..don't do that! Its good and all but I don't like my bass up high like that..play it on the low strings...that's bass.

 

[FretNoMore]

What is it with all these "band leaders" everyone seems to have problems with? I've never in my life played in a band (with the exception of when I played the clarinet in a school band) that had a BL ... seems to cause nothing but problems. I much prefer to be in a band where we all have pretty much an equal say about things, and where each instrument has leeway to find their own line within a common arrangement. We discuss and try things and together come up with something we can all work with. Play something you like but also leave room for everyone else, no ego involved. As has been said, if someone appointed himself band leader and dictated what I can and can not play, then please also be prepared to pay me well.

 

[Joebone]

Maybe the BL was having a hard time playing along with a band that didn't sound just like the obscure records he practiced with at home. Some people need a karaoke machine or a record player, not a band.

+1. Seen this…it's weird.

 

[GlennW]

But what if the "bass lines" are really "guitar riffs" that play along with the guitar player and don't groove with the drummer?

I caught that part in your OP, and wondered about it. From what I've heard, the basslines and the guitar parts are different, especially on the old Chicago style stuff. Occasionally you might come across a song where they do the same riff, but nothing comes to mind right now, which leads me to believe that the BL was not being as authentic as indicated in the OP.

Do you have nay examples of the songs/atrists?

 

[MaGrass]

Not knowing the band leader it's hard to tell but in my exp sometimes people ask you to play stuff that is not familiar with your ways.
If the band u were performing for has paid jobs ongoing I'd stick with what the band leader asks me regardless if he's an ass%$#.
Just be pro man. In the end u'll get the cash to go forward.

If they don't even pay your gigs and you are not having great time with that particular crew....what's the point. U re better off looking for Another job!
yes sometimes you also have to play with dummies

 

[noiseguy]

What if it was, say, Sting, and he was going to pay you 5K per gig. And he had charts, which you are required to stick to. Would you do it?

That's kind of getting to the core issue here. Lack of respect for BL's vision. And at what point you're willing to work for a dictator, or want a democracy.

And I said work. Playing, for me personally isn't work, it's a hobby. If it's not your hobby, it's your work.

I've worked for both dictators and democratics in corporate environs. Generally, my take on dictators is that their skill set has to be fairly advanced, to the point that I can learn something from them. Otherwise, I avoid them. And once I've learned what I can from them, I leave the situation.

I prefer democratics. And my demands on what they offer in the skills department is overall lower. Frankly, I've learned far more technical skills working for dictators, and more people skills from democratics.

Either management styles works. But I'd bet top musicians (like Sting) tend to the dictator side. Watch a behind the scenes with a Michael Jackson or Springsteen. These are people that bleed their craft, and expect others to as well. This comes out even in controlled environment of filming. I expect ppl work with them put up with an amazing amount of criticism, and deal with it b/c they are improving their craft.

So... your BL. Sounds like you don't respect his vision (not that I blame you) and he wants to dictate what you should do. Per the above, a bad combination, b/c dictators are only worth dealing with if you're learning something.

So, next time. Either find a BL with a vision you can back, find a democratic band, or be the BL.

 

[BawanaRik]

So everyone but the BL digs your style, but the BL fired you anyway. I cant for the life of me understand the concept of a band leader.

If you were really happy with th rest of the band consider calling hem all to jam and have a new guitarist there. See how it goes.

If not move on. If this is the worst thing that happens in your career you're lucky.

 

[BawanaRik]

There are two sides to every story, but I still cant see how having one band member being the dictator could possibly be a good thing.

What generally makes me less than pleased is a guy acting like the boss until Friday comes around.

You want to act like the boss. Pay like the boss.

 

[ShoeManiac]

Sounds like it was a tricky situation. Some BL's just want to be control freaks for the sake of being a control freak. They get on power trips and the situation can just snowball from there.

But with some BL's there is an artistic vision that they're trying to adhere to. Should they be willing to compromise that vision based on the personnel they've assembled for a band? I think it's a conditional sort of situation. If the band is successful because of an adherence to the BL's artistic vision, then the musicians should be ready and willing to be compliant. But if you're talking about a band with infrequent gigs or low paying gigs? Then I think the BL should be more willing to play to the strengths of his musicians.

One thing I might add here? It sounds like this band leader might be into the whole Chess Records sound of the 1950's, and related schools of blues. That's a fairly specific sound. But the thing is, playing those tunes "like the record" with modern equipment and replicating that sound is a tricky proposition. Simply because so many of those records were the product of relatively primitive recording technology. Picking up the nuances of a recorded bass part can be incredibly difficult when the record was made by sticking a lone ribbon microphone in the middle of a room where the band was playing live. And the way individual instrument level was dealt with? By having the musicians vary their place in the room relative to the microphone. Capturing that kind of lo-fi minimalism in a live setting is a tricky proposition, and a band leader should be upfront about the fact that he's trying to pull that off with everyone.