Apparently you didn’t see the entire thread and the follow up video.
The pup was taken apart and definitely SC.
sacrificed pup
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Gretsch Junior Jet review
- Thread starter jpmcbride
- Start date
Apparently you didn’t see the entire thread and the follow up video.
The pup was taken apart and definitely SC.
sacrificed pup
I saw the whole video, and I'm not here to argue about it. Lobster did a thorough job as with everything he does. But, just opening up the PuP doesn't definitively tell you its a single coil. You would actually have to unwind it or pull the windings apart to see what going on underneath to definitively show that its a single coil. Its just my opinion, but I'd want to unwind that PuP before I made a final conclusion.
Why would they use something so unconventional, though, instead of a standard humbucker?
Not saying it's impossible, just improbable.
This could be done in the interest of complete scientific/engineering thoroughness. It's easy enough to do. If a dissection can show how the pickups possibly are humbuckers, maybe it can help us understand why they do so poorly at bucking hum.
He took it apart. I've used the same paper on my bass. There is definitly only one coil. The website says "dual coil." So it doesnt matter if you think it is humbucking or not, it is still a single coil, and there is no second coil.
You can be in disbelief if you want. It's a single coil. A good sounding, noisy single coil.
Its not a matter of opinion or belief - its either one or two coils. It most definitely looked like a single coil when Lobster opened it up. But how can you tell for certain there isn't a second coil wound inside? I was just making the point that its not fully definitive until someone unwinds one.
it would have shown up on the green paper. You would have a small arguement if you were talking about stacked humbuckers, but you aren't. And they aren't stacked humbuckers. Lobster covered that.
a coil wrapped around another coil would simply be just a single coil. unless you added an insulator between the coils.
There's only 2 wires, and one coil.
Lobster OWNS more basses than most of us will ever touch. He's done quite a bit of work on his stuff. I'm pretty sure HE CAN TELL WHAT A SINGLE COIL IS. It's in his hand, completely disassembled down to the bobbins and the wire. he would be able to see if it had a second coil. It's in his hand.
I'm glad you're a Gretsch/Fender fan and will defend them till the world ends. Believe any fantasy you wish. I do not have such boundaries and do not see things the same. I'd rather look at what I can measure and see with tools.
I measured a single coil with magnetic paper on my own bass.
But tell you what... buy mine for $300+shipping and you can find out for yourself. I'll even throw in a hard case. You can believe what you want and have whatever opinion you want. I'll go with facts.
I'm not a Gretsch fan or a defender. But I do own a Junior Jet which I like a lot.
And I'm a big Lobster fan. I watch all his stuff and love his reviews.
I do however happen to be a scientist and engineer and I've learned to do the experiment before drawing a conclusion. I looked at the video closely and yes, you can see a single coil wrapped around a bobbin with 2 wires exiting. Looks and smells like a single coil to Lobster, to you, and to me. Most likely it is a single coil. But without unwinding it we can't be 100% certain - that's my only point. There could be some creative way of stacking coils with the wires soldered internally. Who knows?
And I'm a big Lobster fan. I watch all his stuff and love his reviews.
I do however happen to be a scientist and engineer and I've learned to do the experiment before drawing a conclusion. I looked at the video closely and yes, you can see a single coil wrapped around a bobbin with 2 wires exiting. Looks and smells like a single coil to Lobster, to you, and to me. Most likely it is a single coil. But without unwinding it we can't be 100% certain - that's my only point. There could be some creative way of stacking coils with the wires soldered internally. Who knows?
I'm a recovering engineer, but not a scientist. And I have to agree. Somebody just strip one down and let's be done with it.
If we have a pro winder do it, we might gain some other insights, and the winder could rewind it afterwards. The last time I had a single-coil rewound (by ReWind, not the cheapest) it was about $65.
We do. We know it's a single coil. All of the evidence says it's a single coil. Including how companies conduct cost reduction. No company would come up with some difficult (expensive) way to have a coil wrapped around a coil so sneakily that Lobster cannot tell. It needs an insulator otherwise it's one coil. Lobster would be able to see the insulator.
I work in a lab, and I trust my tools to measure things. And I work with electronic controls, so I know what I'm talking about. I also know that sometimes some engineers leave their desks and come into the lab and don't have a clue what a hose clamp is. So by saying you're an engineer I know you understand the theory of mechanics and electricity. However there is a difference between head knowledge and knowledge in your hands. I've fixed enough things to see the EVIDENCE before me and KNOW FOR SURE it's a single coil.
You can sit in denial and believe the marketing fluff all you want.
Dude, there is no reason to be rude. You know nothing about me and have no reason to be saying this. My only point is that we should complete the experiment if we want to be 100% sure. Why are you taking a technical discussion personally?
By the way, I happen to run an R&D group and have my own electronics lab with technicians and engineers working for me, and I work everyday in the lab myself with test equipment, tools, and my hands. Every day.
I think this is a little unfair. It's true that engineers and techs can have this thing going on between them. I'm a EE that worked as an electronics tech before and after getting my degree. A person can do both, they are not mutually exclusive. I designed, built, serviced, and documented stuff for a Fortune 50 company. If I had techs pulling cable, or doing whatever, I usually was there doing it too. No ivory tower stuff.
Ya, agree. I was an electronics tech in the Army before I went to college. Best engineers are both.
Disclaimer: I'm VERY electronically-challenged. What follows is meant as honest enquiries.
Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the pickup is really a stacked-coil design with no separator, would it even buck hum? If I'm not mistaken - corrections welcome - a picture in the other thread shows two magnets at the bottom of the encasing, with the bars acting as polepieces connected to each - but also in contact with themselves. More importantly, both bars run the entire depth of the supposed two coils. While I think the RWRP effect would work if the poles were magnets themselves and they were placed vertically (each coil would be wound around either North or South), I can't see how the same would apply in this case, where both coils are wound around both poles.
So, even if the pickup qualified for a two-coiler, it wouldn't be a humbucker under any definition of the word (no side-by-side coils both able to pick up vibrations, and no hum-cancelling effect).
Again, all the above assumes the existence of two coils, and was written by an ignoramus.
Thoughts?
Assuming, for the sake of argument, that the pickup is really a stacked-coil design with no separator, would it even buck hum? If I'm not mistaken - corrections welcome - a picture in the other thread shows two magnets at the bottom of the encasing, with the bars acting as polepieces connected to each - but also in contact with themselves. More importantly, both bars run the entire depth of the supposed two coils. While I think the RWRP effect would work if the poles were magnets themselves and they were placed vertically (each coil would be wound around either North or South), I can't see how the same would apply in this case, where both coils are wound around both poles.
So, even if the pickup qualified for a two-coiler, it wouldn't be a humbucker under any definition of the word (no side-by-side coils both able to pick up vibrations, and no hum-cancelling effect).
Again, all the above assumes the existence of two coils, and was written by an ignoramus.
Thoughts?
Heh, I still have my COBET certificate somewhere around here. Since I studied electronics in high school, I leveraged that experience to make Spec 4 before I got out of school. I went into central office repair because no matter where one goes in the world, telephone exchanges always are air-conditioned. And that could have been southeast Asia as the Vietnam war wasn't quite over. But I digress....
Good questions. To answer part of your questions, look inside a humbucker. You'll see two coils and two magnets, and one set is a RWRP version of the other. That's typically how it's done. There are different configurations of that, though.
In the images of the G2220 pickup, the metal bars are the pole pieces. The magnets are outside of the coils at the bottom. These pickups are single-coils. However, we're having some discussion of the last 2% of absolute proof.
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I know engineers that do know what a tool is. My point is that just because you say you're an engineer, doesn't mean you know anything other than formulas.
I agree. The engineers I trust are this way. The others I follow and make sure everything is safe and not going to cause damage. The best engineers are absolutely the ones that worked with their hands first.
And I can say from testing it with my own two eyes and moving that green paper around to look at the magnetic field, that there is nothing that would indicate a second coil. So no, there is no last 2%. the last 2% was when Lobster took apart to make sure it wasn't stacked. And, a second coil would need to be isolated to be effective. Lobster would have seen that insulator.
IF it was humbucking in any manner we would see it in the magnetic field. The paper isn't looking at metal or copper. It's detecting the magnetic field. So again, we would see any sort of humbucker in the field, unless it was stacked. We know it wasn't.
It's a single coil. Argue if you want. It wont change the fact that it's a single coil.
Is the video below enough for you?
Nothing magic here. Single coil.
