Guitar cab is loud and shrill

[AmpedSilence]

Hey guys, I figured this would be the better place to post this thread since its not related to a bass cab.

Our guitarist at church uses a Line 6 4x12 cab, I can't recall the head but its also a Line 6; I have noticed that when we recentley began playing on some Sundays, the electric guitar seems very loud and shrill when standing in front of the cab. Even with the volume turned way down to where it isn't audible when the rest of the band s playing, it sounds very shrill when standing in front.
We have tried hooking the cab up mono and stereo with barely any change. The guitar is plugged straight into the amp.
when standing off to the side of the cab, the guitar's tone is good and has a clean fullness to its tone.
What I ended up doing is turning the cab ALL the way around to where it points to the back of the stage and micing it. It was the only way to get a decent sound on stage and where the people standing in front of the cab would not cover their ears!

I've never dealt with a head/cab situation with a guitar, just with my bass.
In the youth center we have a small Line 6 Flextone 1x12 combo amp and it sounds great at all volumes and positions. do cabs have to be positioned a certain way to get the best out of them? I usually see them just projecting straight out.

 

[darius8]

IMO, His pickups are microphonic. He needs to wax pot the pickups or replace them with potted pickups.

 

[T-Bird]

Hi.

First reason, Line6.

IME great for (home)recording, but I have yet to hear a decent live sound out of any of their products.

Second reason, the same that plagues (almost ) all guitar cabs is the beaming nature of 'em. 410's and 412's are naturally the worst, horizontally aligned 212's as good runner ups.

Beam blockers have been used for ages to fight the shrillness and reflectors/panels for distributing the sound better, but an isolation box or going "straight" to the mixing desk are unfortunately the only ways to get a good, even guitar tone in small to medium indoors venues.

Regards
Sam

 

[Ender_rpm]

Common problem with guitar sound is that they are EQd for there the player is standing, NOT for what is coming out of the speakers. See if you can elevate the cab to ear level, or tilt it back to aim at the players ears, versus his belt buckle. Use a LOT less gain than at first seems needed, and keep the controls set pretty flat. Used Line 6 combos and PODs for years in church, had to learn the hard way

But I also agree that for live use, most Line6 sounds just don;t "cut" in the way a good non-modeling amp (tube or SS) does. They ARE designed to recreate some of the most classic sounds, which means they often include limiting, mic emulation, etc that may not translate well on stage. The less gain/ flat EQ starting point helps a lot, as most models have more gain than the originals, but mess about with mic placement as well.

 

[1958Bassman]

I was discussing amps with a friend who repairs them, just yesterday. His comment about the 2nd guitar player's amp was that it's harsh, shrill and overwhelming the whole band's sound- solid state, high power, too much headroom and just nasty. It may be OK with some guitars and pedals, but apparently, not with what he's playing. He also thinks the guitar player needs to learn how his sound affects the band's sound and that nobody else likes his sound- some people need someone to dial in the sound for them because they don't know how to make it sound the way they really want, but they don't say anything- just go along with their bad selves.

 

[Floyd Eye]

Some Line 6 4x12 cabs are loaded with V30s and sound absolutely awesome.

 

[TimmyP]

That's the way guitar speakers are. And it's exaggerated in the 4x configuration. Pointing the cab at the players head - or backwards - is the ticket.

 

[AmpedSilence]

Great input, I'll check into the pickups possibly being an issue.
I tried tipping the cab up, pointing to his head but even at really low volumes the cab's projection is too shrill!
I'd have to agree that the cab may just be overkill. I so much prefer the small combo amp

 

[Febs]

Great input, I'll check into the pickups possibly being an issue.
I tried tipping the cab up, pointing to his head but even at really low volumes the cab's projection is too shrill!
I'd have to agree that the cab may just be overkill. I so much prefer the small combo amp

It doesn't sound like a problem with microphonic pickups. As others have noted, this is a characteristic of guitar cabinets, particularly if they're closed back cabs. If using a smaller cabinet isn't an option, point the cabinet at the guitarist's head, EQ is for that listening position, set the volume as low as possible, and then mic it for the rest of the band and the audience. Alternately, since he is probably using cabinet emulation anyway with the Line6, you could run it direct to the board rather than miking the cabinet.

 

[Marley's Ghost]

Ugh, I hate guitar 4x12's. Our guitarist insists on using one. I made him roll off the lows, turn down to a fraction and DI into the PA. Problem solved, except on small stages where the thing is an effing useless space hog.

 

[Febs]

Ugh, I hate guitar 4x12's. Our guitarist insists on using one. I made him roll off the lows, turn down to a fraction and DI into the PA. Problem solved, except on small stages where the thing is an effing useless space hog.

Yup, I've never had a need for more than a 1x12 for guitar. I had a 2x12 Fender Blues DeVille for a while and ultimately got rid of it because it was too much amp for 98% of my gigs.

 

[Dave W]

Some Line 6 4x12 cabs are loaded with V30s and sound absolutely awesome.

Yep.

Others, like my old guitarists, are cheap and sound terrible. Shrill is a good word for it. He finally upgraded to a better cab and it made a huge difference.

 

[TimmyP]

If, when it's pointed at his head, he likes it and everyone else thinks it's shrill, the problem is a player who has hearing issues and/or likes a horribly brite tone. He'll likely dial up a similar tone no matter what amp and cabinet he uses.

 

[AmpedSilence]

We had band rehearsal tonight. The guitarist brought his Line 6 Pod Live XT pedal and instead of mic'ing the cab, we went with a DI from the pedal. Sounds LOADS better! The 4x12 cab and amp are now just a glorified personal monitor of his lol.

 

[claytitan]

Ugh, I hate guitar 4x12's. Our guitarist insists on using one. I made him roll off the lows, turn down to a fraction and DI into the PA. Problem solved, except on small stages where the thing is an effing useless space hog.

Yep. Having the right equipment for a gig is important. Unless you are playing a huge stage there is no reason for a 4 x12. Even then I don't see a need for it. Why a guitarist wants to lug those things around is beyond me. Marketing and image I guess. 20-30 tube watts into a good 1 x 12 should be plenty. Now if only a kick back style cab would catch on!

 

[Floyd Eye]

When no musicians bring stacks on a stage anymore and everyone just DIs out to the board, rock and roll will truly be dead.

Not all of us are worried about weight and load in/out and not everyone with full stacks has to use them for pissing matches. I'm in a hard rock band. I don't think I'll be gigging with a combo amp any time soon.

 

[EastCoastThump]

Not all of us are worried about weight and load in/out and not everyone with full stacks has to use them for pissing matches. I'm in a hard rock band. I don't think I'll be gigging with a combo amp any time soon.

That's cool (and many of us here totally get the glories of glorious excess), but any chance you missed the part about this being a church gig?

 

[Floyd Eye]

That's cool (and many of us here totally get the glories of glorious excess), but any chance you missed the part about this being a church gig?

Yeah, I was responding to the post above me. Might have been a little OT.

Still, some churches have massive stages and sound systems.

 

[claytitan]

When no musicians bring stacks on a stage anymore and everyone just DIs out to the board, rock and roll will truly be dead.

Not all of us are worried about weight and load in/out and not everyone with full stacks has to use them for pissing matches. I'm in a hard rock band. I don't think I'll be gigging with a combo amp any time soon.

I don't think everyone DI out to the board is a good answer either. For some bozos it might be the only answer because they can't or won't control their volume or tone.

If you or your band members want to take 4x more than you need to a gig more power to ya. It isn't all about the weight. A 4x10 or 12 100w amp likely sounds like crap at a small bar gig. They aren't being driven to the sweet spot and they beam horribly. Most often the audience has the guitar high frequencies being drilled and chainsawed into their head. The guitarist is standing off axis wanking away obliviously. I've seen it many times. Unfortunately that type of rock and roll isn't dead yet.

 

[testing1two]

Until you plug a different head into the 4x12 cab you can't really blame speakers. It would also help to find out if the problem is associated with one guitar or one player in particular. There are many things in the guitar world that can lead to shrill tone, from pickups with the wrong winding pattern to mismatched or poorly designed amp & stompbox circuits to cheap speakers...even the interconnect cables between stompboxes. Oh, and let's not forget the chief culprit: players that don't know their own gear or have no ear for tone to begin with.